Truth In Advertising
Breeder claims she is a member of the AKC - fact: clubs can be members of the AKC, individuals cannot. Breeder claims she is an OESCA member - fact: she's not. (You can check this even if you are not a member yourself - ask someone local to the breeder who is a member and has a roster...) Claims parents' hips are certified - by whom? OFA? PennHip? (Don't even think about getting a puppy in this situation w/o seeing the certification, which breeder should happily supply!) Both parents on premises - fact: so what? (That to me is actually a red flag for a BYB for reasons I've cited before) Parents are part of our family and not kenneled! - And...? Another red flag. Not because that is a bad thing, but because every BYB's (and some puppymill ad's) I've seen say the exact same thing. It's like someone wrote a blueprint for this type of ad and everyone copies it. The latter are just red flags. The outright lies offend me. If you're getting a puppy, make sure you do your homework. If a breeder will lie about something so inconsequential (who cares if she's a "member" of the AKC?), what else will she lie about? As always, buyer beware. Kristine |
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| Even if you don't know a local member, you can always look to see if he or she is on the breeder's directory on the OESCA website, too. |
ButtersStotch wrote: Even if you don't know a local member, you can always look to see if he or she is on the breeder's directory on the OESCA website, too.
Good point, Jill! Though keep in mind that not all breeders who have signed the code of ethics (the prereq) are even listed, or in some cases, want to be. So it's not a complete listing of all OESCA members by any stretch of the imagination. (Many, many are not breeders at all) She never claimed to be on the OESCA referral list, merely to be a member of the club. We just sent the name of the person I alluded to in to the person who maintains OESCA's roster for verification, which is another way to go if you feel there is something truly peculiar going on. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: ButtersStotch wrote: Even if you don't know a local member, you can always look to see if he or she is on the breeder's directory on the OESCA website, too. Good point, Jill! Though keep in mind that not all breeders who have signed the code of ethics (the prereq) are even listed, or in some cases, want to be. So it's not a complete listing of all OESCA members by any stretch of the imagination. (Many, many are not breeders at all) She never claimed to be on the OESCA referral list, merely to be a member of the club. We just sent the name of the person I alluded to in to the person who maintains OESCA's roster for verification, which is another way to go if you feel there is something truly peculiar going on. Kristine I'm sorry. I didn't say that clearly. I didn't mean to imply that that was an all inclusive list of members, just a possible place to start to check since it was something you could do right away on your own without having to do much work or phone calls. You may get lucky.  |
Mad Dog wrote: Both parents on premises - fact: so what? (That to me is actually a red flag for a BYB for reasons I've cited before) Well the difference they are stressing is you're buying from a backyard breeder and not a commercial "puppy mill" that treats their dogs like chattel, leaving parents and puppies locked up in cages 24/7. I don't think that is a difference without a distinction.
Parents are part of our family and not kenneled! - And...? Another red flag. Not because that is a bad thing, but because every BYB's (and some puppymill ad's) I've seen say the exact same thing. It's like someone wrote a blueprint for this type of ad and everyone copies it. Not that buying from a "backyard breeder" is a good thing, it is just a different bad thing. |
Ron wrote: Mad Dog wrote: Parents are part of our family and not kenneled! - And...? Another red flag. Not because that is a bad thing, but because every BYB's (and some puppymill ad's) I've seen say the exact same thing. It's like someone wrote a blueprint for this type of ad and everyone copies it. Well the difference they are stressing is you're buying from a backyard breeder and not a commercial "puppy mill" that treats their dogs like chattel, leaving parents and puppies locked up in cages 24/7. I don't think that is a difference without a distinction.Not that buying from a "backyard breeder" is a good thing, it is just a different bad thing. The "lesser evil" theory?  Maybe, maybe not. Depends on whether or not it's actually true or just another marketing gimmick aimed at making us feel better about our purchase. One of the biggest mills in WI uses this line. Pet shops have perfected this line.
All I'm saying is don't take the written (or even spoken) word at face value. Kristine |
| All this reminds me of when I was a kid growing up with our Brittanys. My parents were very active on the local, regional and national level with the breed clubs, and as the oldest kid I got some of the jobs.
One I remember well was going through the Sunday papers - St Paul and MPLS - and calling all the ads with Brittanys for sale. I asked about the pups, bloodlines, showing, field trialing, where the sellers were from - all that good stuff! (This was before the days of all the tests now available  , so couldn't ask that!)
I remember people's voices being shocked that they were talking to a young teen about this. I think they were so surprised they usually answered all my questions! I like to think that I already was doing my own small part in snooping out the BYB's and puppy mills.  |
got sheep wrote: I think they were so surprised they usually answered all my questions! I like to think that I already was doing my own small part in snooping out the BYB's and puppy mills.
Oh, you wicked wench you! 
Difference is you were raised in the dog world and knew which questions to ask! When I was still living in NY I was in no position to foster, so I did a lot of transport and also tracked the OES puppy classifieds in my local paper for my own "amusement". I'd call once, but really, the BYB status was very obvious - usually they'd advertise at least two litters a year, no claims to health testing, no pretense of "Championship lines", no guarantees, no ongoing relationship with buyer. Just AKC reg OES puppies, first shots, $XXX, first come first serve. A good friend of mine locally in rescue keeps complaining to me that the reason people buy from these buyers (and worse) is that they don't know any better. (Cynical me thinks that in this day and age, that info is already out there -- and this forum has done more than any other source in the breed to spread the word), but in truth the lines have blurred. A lot. And the definitions are murkier than ever. First of all, some of the backyard breeders are better than they used to be. Or, rather, there are tiers. Though my official stance will always be that you should get a puppy from someone who actually cares more about the breed than the $$$s, if there is a BYB out there who does the health screening, takes care to breed for good temperament, follows her puppies throughout their lives, screens her buyers carefully and is willing to take them back at any time, I honestly don't have a beef with that breeder. I know of two breeders who would be classified as BYBs, yet pretty much fit the above - one who actually contacted me several years ago to ask about CA risk in her dogs' pedigrees because she had heard me yacking about it and wanted to educate herself, which impressed the heck out me, frankly, since many show breeders were still busy burrowing their heads in the sand. Some times the only distinction between these breeders and a "show" breeder is that one shows - well, duh! and breeds for a certain "type" - and one does not. Mind you, there are few "BYBs" I've encountered who fall into that category of acceptable in my book. And no, you won't get their names from me and you still have to do your homework and ask the right questions. Many people could care less if their dog actually looks like a reasonable representative of the breed or not. If it's gray and white and hairy and doesn't bite anyone and it's healthy and it and its potential offspring are not clogging up rescue, then who am I to judge? Frankly, we have 4 (oops had 4, one was just adopted ) rescue bitches who are actually decent examples of the breed. A "real" breeder could have produced them and though she would have sold them as pets, not died of embarrassment. Where did they come from? We have no breeder or pedigree info and it's actually very aggravating. The midwest has a certain"type" that defines a backyard bred dog - if you know what an OES is supposed to look like, when you see it, you know it. None of these girls fit this category. So I wonder too if it's an offshoot of the fact that more BYBs are taking more care in where they get their "stock". (Two of them are mill seizures!!!)
I've looked at some pedigrees - not from rescue dogs, usually, but people who got their dogs from BYBs and have been kind enough to share - and if you know lines your hair will kind of stand on end. A number of these dogs have some of the most visible European (yes, European!) and North American bloodlines tight behind them. I really don't know what to make of it. Is it better - or worse? Confusing. Certainly that. Kristine |
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