Need your help! Geesh!
Mostly in the morning when I need her to come in....she WILL NOT COME. I am late to work alot and almost in tears (mad tears.) I feel better to let her out a long time (hour or so) to get some play time before I leave. I have tried everything from treats, to STAY! Just standing there for her to come to me...coaxing her to go "do this" Well, she is too smart. She runs in circles around me and stays 15 feet away. I have lost control on this. Do I only need to let her out on a long lead in the mornings? Is that fair? Of course she comes when I have her on a lead and I say come . But when a sheepie wants to stay outside, is there really anything I can do when they are off a lead? Does this get better with age? She is 7 months. 
THanks so much!! |
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| Kayla has gotten so in tune with our morning schedule that she knew exactly when the time was coming for her to get ready to go in her crate (which she hated)...If she was outside, she did the same thing running in crazy circles, and she would also do the same thing in the house...Our solution was to modify one of her old clotth leashes she had when she was a puppy...We cut off the loop and then cut it to a length where it would not wrap around her legs, or drag on the ground (about 1 1/4 feet)...This has worked great for us, but I am sure it is not the safest options either, but we needed to do something...We have a fenced in reservoir nearby as well where there are trails that wind around in the woods around the lake, we bring here here as well and let her run freely and we need this leash there as well...She stays with us, and will come on command EXCEPT if she sees another dog, then she has to go and see them, so we need to have something to grab a hold of in case it is a smaller dog...Oh well I hope this helps. |
 Willoughby does the same thing! Except in my tiny garden he runs in tight circles around me and I can't corner him! Most of the time, he wears himself out and then comes over to me if I'm sitting with a cookie. then I catch him easily.  However, this takes time! When I have to go to work etc I keep him on an extensible lead. He does his thing and then comes in as good as gold! Not the ideal solution but it works!  |
| Hi,
I remember my first sheepie (aprox 20 years ago) Shaggy, would bolt as soon as the door was open and would race down my cul de sac. Taking her to obedience class, I mentioned this to the trainer, who smiled knowingly. "Of course, she wants you to chase her, so you run the opposite way, she said". I was desperate as I had many times made a fool of myself racing down the street after Shaggy. Taking her to an enclosed field we practised what the trainer had told me. Shaggy would race around the field and away from me and I ran the opposite way...never toward her. It worked! Since then I've had 3 other dogs and it works with them too. They say a tired dog is a good dog and yes now that I've had more experience and am knowledgable that is true. Your pup wants to play! Dogs in their world often play the "come chase me" or "you chase me" game. They do the low play bow and race around in hopes another canine or you in this case will join in the fun. Your furkid is still a baby with lots of energy and they often have pent up energy from being fairly quiet in the evenings. Taking your pet for a walk or going out in the yard with them will make the difference. Yes, it's bothersome when they don't understand that we have schedules. Being annoyed at them and calling them by name with anger or annoyance in our voices doesn't help. Instead a happy tone works better. One of my trainers once pointed that out to me which I hadn't realized people often do when they are angry at their dogs and expect them to come. They said never use the dogs name when you are upset as they may associate their names with anger. Makes sense. Yet, another trainer used a long leash (must be at least 6 ft) with you at the end. You call the dog in a happy tone and give a slight tug, you kneeling down with a treat in hand. Pup sees treat, comes, you give lots of praise and pup gets treat if she/he comes. Eventually you phase out the treat and the leash. Don't expect them to learn it right away as you need daily practise and patience. You may also want to try the treat idea when calling pup to come inside in the morning and eventually you phase that out. Dogs thrive on lots of positive reinforcement, much better than annoyance or being upset with them. Lots of good boy, good girl as they really want to please their alpha person. I sound like a broken record but I often say on this post that whatever work you put in now will pay you back for years to come. My oldest dog is now 18 and how I wish that I had put in the long hours required when he first came into my home. I knew better with my next two. Yes, it means getting up an hour earlier or going for walks every day in the evenings but I have dogs that are well behaved and can leave my home for work every day with all three snoozing as they pace their lives around me. They're not crated and nothing is touched. When I arrive home it's 5 mins of pandamonium...wheee moms' home...walk time! However, I've changed that schudule too as I've become too pooped to take them out at that time so just open the door for potty breaks. I take them for walks later in the evenings. It's work, no doubt, and I have three but again with all the work you put in when they are small will pay you pay for the next 5, 10, perhaps even 15 years. Doggie classes are highly suggested and you'll find and meet others just like yourself. Your pup is in the toddler stage and needs a kind but firm hand. Good luck with everything and let us know how it goes. Marianne |
| Short term answer is yes, put her on a lead, take her for a short, 15 minute walk so she can empty her bladder, etc.
This has always been our dogs routine. Right now, they are let out for a few minutes as we pull ourselves together (we are not so young as we were when we began with oes), then hubby goes out with leashes and short walk, which is followed by breakfast (human and canine) and usually another walk. Thsi second am walk is a relatively new invention: Sophie and Sherman are especially energetic and they need the extra walk, although as they mature (20 months now), it is less necessary. But you defenitely must get your dog to come reliably when you call. Short term answer would be having a treat in hand to reward her when she comes inside. Make it a good one: dried liver treats are a favorite at my house. For now, start earlier in the morning. But work on this at night. |
| Thanks for all the help!
I will try each one and see. When she gets out in the front, I did finally start to walk the other way into a culdesac and finally she slows and comes over to me to grab her. Oh...it is so hard to not be angry once I get a hold of her....but I do praise her then. 
That does not seem to work for me in a fenced back yard though. Do you all know how ridiculous I look to my neighbors? I am sure they are thinking...can't she get control of her dog?? LOL~ I really never had this problem before. But Sheepies are worth it!! I really think I should walk her more and tire her out. Gosh knows I need the exercise myself. I need to get her spayed right away too. Then on to a beginner class. She has been to a puppy class already. |
| Julie,
Hang in there she IS a seven month old sheepdog. 
Don't feel bad if time in the morning is a factor about taking her out on the leash. Also, the basic obedience class will help a lot. |
| Couple of things about a leash:
It's not a punishment---it's a good thing. For our dogs, it means going on a walk, which they find more exciting than being in our fenced in back yard. So, they settle down for a leash to be put on because they know they are getting a reward: a walk. The other thing that a leash does is establish your control/dominant position over your dog. This is a good thing. You are the human, you are supposed to be in charge. Short term, if Addie won't come when she's called in in the am you should put her on a leash. It's a pain, yes, but the manners and behaviors you establish now will serve you and especially your lovely OES for years to come. Trust me on this. |
| When working on "come", we attach a long plastic coated clothesline to the dog's collar and release them in a secure area. We call the dog to us... if the dog doesn't come, we grab the end of the line and reel the dog in as we say "come", reward the dog and touch, then immediately release the dog to play again. If the dog always associates "come" with freedom being taken away, it's viewed as a negative command. The reason for the "touch" is because you may sometime need to grab the collar so it's a safety thing. And when we say come, we mean it... if they don't we go out and get them. A few of my own are getting a little lax lately...
Note: Just be very careful that the clothesline can't be hooked on something while the dog is playing/running. You don't want a neck injury. |
| Judi...Thanks so much on the puppy reminder. You know, I have never had a puppy, I have always rescued older dogs and sometimes I am clueless or forget that she is just a puppy! Even though I read a ton of books, read this forum etc...
I am really getting the advice here and understand that it is very important to nip this in the bud early. |
You know Julie, not only is she still a puppy but she is a little spitfire too. If you recall by the end of the party she had Harry on the ground and she was standing over him.  |
| LOL Spitfire is the word for her!!
She kept going back for more! She really liked that. The funny thing though, she came home growling to my older dog to play like Harry does when he plays. LOL I couldn't believe it! |
| 6 girls....very interesting! Thank you! |
| I had that problem with Morgan - in fact my daughter was home from college last christmas and let the dogs out one day when she was home alone with them and has a very funny story to tell about yelling after Morgan "don't make me come out there and get you" which of course turned into a run around the backyard.
What we did was train them to a whistle. you use the whistle when they are on a lead in front of you; blow it; give them a treat as stepping backwards etc etc. it really worked. Now Morgan knows the routine in the morning and the only time he gets peanut butter in his kong is when I go to work. His new problem is getting him off the back porch in the morning - he haunts the door hoping its time for me to leave - I feel no love  |
| Dogs will do whatever is rewarding for them. If running around in the yard is more rewarding then coming into the house, then run around the yard it will be.
What I do with a new dog, or a dog that needs help in learning to "come" is carry around small treats, or a bit of kibble if they LOVE it, or cheese orwhatever. I have some in my pocket all day long. At many times during the day I call the dog's name and once they come to me they get a treat. I don't make them sit, or don't pat them or praise or anything like that. The treat is instantaneous. As soon as the dog reaches me (nice and close) I shove the treat into the mouth. I do this over and over, several times a day. Soon the dog is racing to me from any room in the house, as soon as I call their name. I try to make a specail spot, like in my house it is the kitchen counter, where I keep the doggie biscuits that are not in my pocket. The dogs know that place is special. Then I just move it to outside. The dog gets a treat when the dog gets close to me. When going through this excercise at the begiining it is not the time to leash up and drag into the house. We are just working coming close to me when I call their name. Then I start to call the dogs through the open door to the back yard. I open the door, call the dog, and then stand by the "special treat spot" inside the house. THe dog comes to the door and comes right into the house for his treat. No forcing, no dragging, no yelling and no chasing. Rewards are always given when the dog comes to me. All the time. It must be a fail-proof request and response, so I am willing to reward a dog each and every time he/she comes to me when I call. Not always treats, but certainly a good scratch, or a bit of a play, etc. But treats are always good. |
| That's a very good approach Nicole. It's all about the dog understanding that "come" in not a bad thing.
Quote: I have some in my pocket all day long.
Have you ever left dog treats in your zippered jacket pocket and later found you have a pocketful of crumbs because a particular dog chewed them up? It's Panda that has a nose for this.
Or you're at the store and your checking your pockets for your keys and pull out dog treats instead? |
| This was always a problem with Chauncey, he turned 2 in Sept. Come was/is not in his vocabulary. To add to the problem he was not food driven, I could dangle a porterhouse in front of him. BUT, we've found the answer. Bob is a hunter and although I'm not a fan of wild game, Chaunce loves his deer jerky. We started with that when I found it worked but I was concerned about the sodium and spices. I then switched to small pieces of cheese which hadn't worked before, but now works like a charm. Now, the prince who wouldn't touch a dog treat will come for The Good Life Recipe treats. My SIL gave them to him and her dog when they dog sat for us a month or so ago. I'm not so sure it's his taste that is changing but maturation. We finally were able to put our fence up in August ( about 1/2 acre in back ) and he loves it. I have never had much of a problem getting him to come in.....But, I have never, and will never, chase him out there. We play soccer, chase a tennis ball, play with SIL's lab, etc...
Now when I call, he'll come look at the door to see what I have, sit by the herbs and take a second to make his decision, it has to be his idea ( I'll close the door as though I don't care and peek out the window ). When I do this he's at the door with bum wiggling. This is a wonderful turn about for us. I guest what I'm trying to say is, it's a long, difficult, wonderful, frustrating, wonderful, long, difficult, wonderful, wouldn't trade it for anything puppyhood. Did I mention long???? |
6Girls wrote: Or you're at the store and your checking your pockets for your keys and pull out dog treats instead? I wish!! lately when I grab the keys my spare poop bags come out too |
Quote: I wish!! lately when I grab the keys my spare poop bags come out too
PLEASE tell me they were empty...  |
| Yes all you enquiring minds - they are empty ones!!! |
| Ok. I have an update.
THank you all so much! I thought about each response and tried them out!
So, I learned to use the word "come" in a more fun way, always. I then started with treats all the time in the house and called her frequently. This has worked! (of course) She now comes almost every single time in or outdoors. Now I know I will have to phase out the treats. I think i thought that the word "come" should be used with a firm voice and that meant I was boss. WRONG! LOL. Hubby lets her out very early in the morning without a leash. Then before I leave for work, I let her out on a lead. (just in case.) It just seems like everything clicked finally. I was thinking the other day....(now I don't really tell anyone this, but you guys ought to understand lol.) I was dancing one day to the Peanuts Christmas song while I was cleaning. I just wanted to see her response. Well, she LOVED it! So I taught her a little ditty within MINUTES!! She took steps towards me then backed stepped, then side to side little jumps, then turned circles along with me etc... Now WHY did I have so much trouble with "come?" LOL |
| when we act silly they must think we are nuts and play along with us to keep us amused. |
AddieLuv wrote: I think i thought that the word "come" should be used with a firm voice and that meant I was boss. WRONG! LOL.
...etc... Now WHY did I have so much trouble with "come?" LOLFor what its worth I was taught not to use come but to call "here" when I wanted them to come. don't know why but it does seem to work - particularlly if you work on there and back as well. |
| Oh, ok. 'Here" does sound more upbeat. Maybe I will try that if it does not confuse things.
Thanks! |
kerry wrote: AddieLuv wrote: I think i thought that the word "come" should be used with a firm voice and that meant I was boss. WRONG! LOL. ...etc... Now WHY did I have so much trouble with "come?" LOLFor what its worth I was taught not to use come but to call "here" when I wanted them to come. don't know why but it does seem to work - particularlly if you work on there and back as well. One thing Ive learned is that what word specifically you use does make a difference. Its much harder to say "come" in a bright, encouraging tone, than, for instance, "up!" or even "sit!"...we always try to choose words that are easy to say in an upbeat way for "active" commands, and ones that work as drawn-out soothing sounds for praise or calming...."Eeeeeexcellent!" for instance, instead of "Good!" |
| I am beginning to understand that now. I think you are right. I will try to use a few different words and see how that does. |
| Just make sure that the word you use isn't a word that you may need for something else in the future. Harry knows Come, Front and Here but they all mean different things even though they all involve coming to me. We use Here in agility. |
| Awesome update! We have a fun trick for Bing if he doesn't feel like coming home. We play a race game: Ready, Set, GO!!! and no matter if we're with him or not it always means I'll race you to the door. It's great fun and helps if he's distracted by something else - he never wants to be last!! |
| Keep the advice coming! I am taking it all in.
I am constantly working with her. You know another hard thing is trying to have my husband do the same as I am trying to do. I mean on everything. For example, I have her sit and wait and open the door and tell her when it is ok to go before she goes out , and she really is doing well. He has his own "special" way that is different. (Like just opening the door sometimes period...out she runs.)
So this is really enjoyable at times and REALLY hard work at times too.LOL |
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