Competition for attention between dogs
If I pay attention to Charlie, Toby will jump up and, in a friendly way, nudge Charlie or try to distract him from me. Charlie will usually see right through this and will have none of it and will say so with a low growl or a warning bark. If I am giving Toby attention on the other hand, Charlie will come up and give him a warning bark or a lunge and a bark. Not an attempt to distract, but a warning. This inevitably ends up in aloud, escalating barking face-off, usually but not always, with Toby retreating. Since the first day, the dogs have not had any physical confrontation other than this barking confrontation. Commands seem to be ineffective with both dogs during this time and the only thing that seems to have any effect is to immediately put both dogs outside, where they don't want to go. Toby usually goes willingly, Charlie has to be forcefully put out. Once outside the confrontation ends immediately and both want back in as if they don't understand why they are suddenly exiled. Neither dog is otherwise confrontational except over attention and they get along wonderfully when by themselves. Neither shows any food aggression toward the other, ever. They play a toy stealing game with one another, but it never becomes a direct aggression. That is more like "watch and when the other dog is not looking go and steal the toy". More of a game. Any suggestions on how to change this attention-competition behavior? I do not have crates nor have I ever employed them as I have always had adult dogs. |
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Your two need to establish who is the dominant one. Unless the behavior becomes violent, I would let them be. My two girls worked it out. I still see some of the behavior you see, but I just pet them both, perferably at the same time. They will be fine. Merry Christmas and enjoy them. Two is better than one.  |
| Charlie, the older dog is emerging as the dominant one although I don't think Toby will ever be one to show extreme submissive behavior.
I have sometimes tried letting them be since it is only display and not physical, but 5 minutes of barking is not what I want to hear, either. So that's why they have been getting put outside lately. I figured if they associate something they don't like (getting put out) with these displays, maybe they would eventually figure out it would be a good idea not to start it in the first place. So far, the message hasn't gotten through their thick, furry heads, however. |
| Yeah, that type of nudging and shoving and telling off happens in my house, too.
What I do is stop the patting of whoever and just leave the area. Yeah, the dog getting the attention looses out, but the one who is asking for attention looses out, too....The shoving dog sees you leave as a result of his behavior...The one getting the attendion will just assume that you were done. The ultimate goal is for the dogs to realize that you are the one to decide when it is time for them and when it is not. They don't need an explanation. and sure, life isn't fair, but they don't see it that way. They just see that you, the almighty attention and treat-giver, make the decisions and they live by them. |
Mony & Laci's Mommy wrote: Your two need to establish who is the dominant one. Unless the behavior becomes violent, I would let them be.
I hate to disagree, but, any trainer I have dealt with has reinforced that this isn't acceptable behavior. |
kerry wrote: Mony & Laci's Mommy wrote: Your two need to establish who is the dominant one. Unless the behavior becomes violent, I would let them be. I hate to disagree, but, any trainer I have dealt with has reinforced that this isn't acceptable behavior. It isn't acceptable to let them establish who the dominant one is? Is that what you're saying? What does your behaviorist recommend? |
| I think what we need to understand is that the dominant dog does not shove and bark and carry on. The dominate dog knows who he is, doesn't have to prove anything, and and will put the other dog on "ignore".
The one that is causing the comotion is the alpha-wanna be, who is insecure and demanding. With 2 fairly new dogs, they are still sorting each other out, so they do need to establish rank, to some point, amoungst themeselves...which could result in some minor squabbles. My two have been together almost 2 years, and they still squabble now and again between tehselves, so nothing is set in stone. However, that being said, when the 2 footer is around, all other ranks don't count. They need to adher to what the person in charge decides. This is not saying that the human is the boss, or the alpha, or anything like that. The human is in charge of all resources, and patting and treats are resources. It is therefore in the best interest of the dogs to behave or they get nothing. Remove all until next time, and they will eventually "get it"...It must be very subtle, no forcing, no punishing one over the other, ...Just that is the way it is. |
Bosley's mom wrote: However, that being said, when the 2 footer is around, all other ranks don't count. They need to adher to what the person in charge decides. This is not saying that the human is the boss, or the alpha, or anything like that. The human is in charge of all resources, and patting and treats are resources. It is therefore in the best interest of the dogs to behave or they get nothing.
Remove all until next time, and they will eventually "get it"...It must be very subtle, no forcing, no punishing one over the other, ...Just that is the way it is. I agree - I have been also advised to make sure I verbally tell them to cut it out if they start anything. They should be able to sit next to each other to take treats and pets with no competiton between them. One exercise I was given was to put the bossy one in a sit next to me on the floor and let the other one get some attention - either on the couch, the floor - or his 100 pound preference - my lap. At the same time Ms Boss should also get pet and some treats etc on the floor. The big no no is pushing, snapping and verbalizing at teach other. One other thing I have been told to try it not to allow the more aggressive (in this case the barking-growling dog) to "get" me - or my attention, if she starts anything. You can walk out of the room (with the other dog) or put the pushy dog in a time out in another room. We used to have much more squabbling now they can take treats off the floor next to each other and there isn't a sound. Of course if they sense I am tired or off my game they will still try to see who can get closest to me and I end up pinned to the couch under a pile of sheepies! |
| Thanks all. I find this to be an interesting discussion.
I'm sure it's true that Charlie, being the older male and the one whose territory has recently been invaded is feeling insecure even though he seems to be holding onto his dominance in regard to most interactions. They already hang together with Charlie invariably in the lead and Toby following. That first day there were some real physical confrontations that Charlie got the worst of though. After that, he seemed to be able to put Toby in his place with his bark. So I think that is what he is using now. Toby seems to knuckle under in all situations except when he is getting attention. And like I said, with the usual things, food and toys, they are surprisingly willing to let the other have whatever he wants without any aggression. But their relationship is not fully sorted out yet. I will continue to ignore both when this negative behavior happens and hope that both figure out it gets them nowhere. |
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