Tigerlily - 3 years and still frustrating
 make the rounds to all the garbage cans in the house (or knock over and access the one outside)
Find stray laundry and ingest the undergarments
Lounge on the beds and furniture
drink from the toilets
Eat everything that is not padlocked (yes, she opens the pantry doors and jumps on kitchen counters) The other pets' foods are not immune
Go the bathroom
Walk into the neighbors houses if anyone is foolish enough to leave a door open
I am not talking about an unsupervised dog here. This will happen if I am facing the wrong way. Think toddler. I have been on edge in my house with her for 3 years. She has been through 3 trainers - all very reputable 4H leader, hunting dog trainer, Board Member of the Agility Club.. I have invested $3000 in her training. Her temperment is fine; her intelligence - excessive. The gun dog trained introduced her to an electric training collar. When she has it on, she follows the rules, no reminders necesary. As soon as the battery is flat, her head is in the trash. In addition, she has vicious allergies. I have had her on dozens of foods; she is currently on a superpremium millet and salmon only food to attempt to remedy, most especially the ear infections. We just can't clear out her system because she keeps finding her way into things. I am at a stage where all I see is $ signs when I look at her - training, training devices, $65/bag dog food, ear treatments, vet treatments for ingestion, the list goes on for a dog from which I have yet to get any real enjoyment from. I feel like I always have to watch my back because of this passive aggressive personality. That said, she is friendly and good natured; I just don't get to enjoy it. As I write this, I'll looked nervously over my shoulder a dozen times I really, really need a break. |
|
|
| This is the saddest post I've ever read. I'm so sorry you've had such a terrible time.
Can you just never, ever, ever let the batteries run down?  Rechargeables...rotate them!
Sorry, just the only thing I can think of this second.  Is it time to search another home for her? Rescue? |
| Oh, goodness. And how sad not to enjoy such a special breed and your post covers a lot of issues.
Are you thinking about re-homing her/him? If so, please contact a rescue in your area. They work very hard to find the best placement for the dog and will work with you in the process. Meanwhile, keeping a spare set of batteries may be your answer. Please keep us posted and let us know how we can help. |
This post makes me sad too 
Very few of these issues seem big enough (to me) to prevent you from enjoying and loving your dog. garbage cans: can you get ones that she cant open, or just keep them in closed cupboards? laundry: hampers? closed doors on the bedrooms? lounging on the furniture: sorry, no suggestions here...mine lounge wherever we do! 
drinking from toilet: close the lids. going into neighbor's houses: a fence? going to the bathroom in the house, countersurfing, and opening the pantry strike me as the only really big problems. Perhaps baby locks on the pantry? Then you could focus your efforts on housebreaking and the "leave it!" command. Are you still working on the techniques that the various trainers showed you? Remember that at 3 years, Tigerlilly is still a very young dog...these guys mature at three, so she's basically still a pup. 
good luck, I hope that things get better. |
| I think you pegged her just right - too smart for her own good. I have one like that at just over a year and a half, minus the allergies, but I do enjoy her. They will never make an easy pet - that's an underemployed working dog begging for a job, not some ordinary pet. I'm a bit surprised, given her pedigree (not a bad one, nice temperaments, in fact; just not known for necessarily producing working style dogs).
She's young. Who does rescue in your area? They need to find a training obsessed, OES experienced home with only one or so other OES max (this kind of dog takes lots of time as you obviously know). Probably single and with a good sense of humor, to boot Seriously. If you're not happy, she's not happy and that's not fair to her, either.
If I didn't already have my share of over-achievers, I'd take her in a minute. If you do end up considering giving her up, you should probably let her breeder know. And if you go through rescue (since her breeder is so far away, though she would presumbly want to work with them), please let us know also so we can mention her possible availability in training-obsessed circles. Kristine |
| Ravenmoonart- if only it were that simple. I have 3 other humans in that house who seam incapable of closing doors, picking up laundry and closing the toilet. Plus, the husband doesn't think he should have to. The Wonderdog of his youth NEVER did any such things. The "she's only a puppy" excuse is starting to wear thin.
She is extrodinarily clever. She know those moment the collar battery dies or which is garbage day. She also understands the rules with extreme clarity. We were outside (I don't have a fencable yard and she runs right through the invisible fence - it only hurts for a second) and she kept trying to wander away. Again, think 2 year old. I was getting nothing accomplished constantly calling her back as she was slinking away. I put on her collar and she immediately laid down inside the garage and didn't budge. She gets into something, looks at me and immediately goes to lay down in her kennel. I don't have to say a word. That said, God help me, I have little wish to get rid of her. I'm just ranting my frustrations to release them and looking for some sage advice. An occassional area dogsitter wouldn't be so bad either |
alinamarie wrote: That said, God help me, I have little wish to get rid of her. I'm just ranting my frustrations to release them and looking for some sage advice.
An occassional area dogsitter wouldn't be so bad either Good!
Now what you need is some intense, over-achieving dog-deprived 4H kid looking for a project. I'm dead serious. The dog is BORED out of her mind. Kristine |
alinamarie wrote: I have 3 other humans in that house who seam incapable of closing doors, picking up laundry and closing the toilet. Plus, the husband doesn't think he should have to.
She is extrodinarily clever. That said, God help me, I have little wish to get rid of her. I'm just ranting my frustrations to release them and looking for some sage advice. An occassional area dogsitter wouldn't be so bad either That said you really do need to train the humans as well. Get them all involved. She sounds very smart too and needs activities to keep her amused, using her brain and not bored. A tired sheepie is a good sheepie. I always say they do not grow brains till about 3 years old. Now is the time to get her active and also thinking. Do you have a obedience or agility facility near you to enroll her in and work with her? Your whole family could get involved in this with her as well. Work her and I think you will find she will be great at this sort of activity.
Start putting the crunch on the family to close doors, toilet seat down and pick up after themselves for everyones sanity. You really do have a sheepie with brains, so utilise that and get enjoyment out of her by working her & tiring her out and having the whole family involved in taking her to some sort of classes where there is a variety of other dogs in the class as well..  |
| I do feel for you as there is nothing worse than when you feel your world has ended because of a dog.
George was naughty doing much of what you described until we put him into a routine. He gets walked at the same times each day, fed at the same times everything done at the same time. It sound stupid but it really helped. I was advised to tire him out mentally rather than trying to tire him physically. Sometime when we are out on a walk he is expecting to go one way and we turn and go a different way. I play games with him where he has to find things that are hidden etc. Little things can make a big difference and these things really helped me. Good Luck |
| I agree with everyone's post that she does sound like she's looking for things to do. She sounds so smart, I really wish you could refocus that energy.
As for keeping her out of everything, every dog's behavior is different and it's up to the owners to help eliminate the problems. We keep out toilet seats down here too, which is kind of a nice habit anyhow, we have lids on our trash cans and never keep any food on the counters. If our dogs get into anything, we blame ourselves for not securing something, not the dogs. We don't mind making accommodations this way, as we enjoy our dogs so much. I'm really sad that you are seeing owning her as such a big hassle and not a lot of joy. I can't tell from the post on how much of this is venting, and how much is truly end of the line frustration, and I know you really care about her as you have put so much into her training & well being monetarily. If you truly feel that she's not right for your family, maybe you should consider placing her, as she can sense your frustration too and I'm sure that is just making matters worse. |
Mad Dog wrote: alinamarie wrote: That said, God help me, I have little wish to get rid of her. I'm just ranting my frustrations to release them and looking for some sage advice. An occassional area dogsitter wouldn't be so bad either Good! Now what you need is some intense, over-achieving dog-deprived 4H kid looking for a project. I'm dead serious. The dog is BORED out of her mind. Kristine Or go one step further - an ex-4-H overachieving dog-deprived kid! One who is now a college student and misses the dog training challenge. They have the energy and time to help, too. My daughter in NY was one of those - and she finally is in a home (she nannies too) where they let her get her own dog. She went the rescue route and is loving the challenge of a 10 yr old abused , 3rd-time placed rescue dog! |
| Here's the thing: for this to work, the first order of business is an attitude change.
Yours 
For this to succeed, you have to truly like the dog for who she is, not what you think she should be. Do you have a right to a dog who doesn't drive you out of your tree? Sure you do. Can she be that dog? Well, more or less, but not without a lot of work on your part, which is why you have to truly enjoy her on some level, or why make the effort? You could keep throwing money at all kinds of trainers, but they can't train your dog for you. Other people train you, you train the dog. And you train your kids. And your husband. (These are the components in this equation that would frustrate ME, not the dog! Which is probably why I'm single, eh? )
Training a dog is a piece of cake compared to training family members. I think, like Lisa and others suggested, that's where you need to start. Family meeting: do you love this dog? (Hopefully, yes) OK, so how much are you willing to contribute to making this work before you end up having to visit mom on weekends in a nice, padded cell? 
You're not going to be able to do this alone. That's just a losing proposition and small wonder you feel like you're banging your head against the wall. It's a daily committment, whether its formal obedience training or just seizing opportunities throughout the day to reinforce this or that good behavior. If your entire relationship with her is damage control, then you don't have a good starting point on which to build a better relationship. So think of something she does that you do like, or something you do with her that makes you feel good about her, and start there. Ask other family members what they really enjoy about her. Is it taking her for a walk? Teaching her to fetch? Grooming her? Ask them to set aside some time every day for some one-on-one time with her. Attention is attention and some of her actions tell me she's attention seeking (in addition to alleviating boredom and frustration). That to me is the sad thing about this type of situation: being naughty probably gets her more attention than being good. If you're like me, good merely means a welcome break from her antics so you can focus on other things - human nature (we all take our dog's good behavior for granted most of the time). Since, just like with little kids, any attention is attention, even bad attention, naughty becomes reinforcing. And no, she doesn't know she's being naughty. And dogs are not passive aggressive - humans are passive aggressive. Or they can be. On the other hand, dogs can teach us a lot about being opportunistic - they probably wrote the book! And they will use whatever works. So all she needs to know is which actions will get your attention. But the naughtier she is, the more you have to crate, gate and otherwise put her away, which makes her crave attention even more. Vicious circle. I don't even want to think about an OES being subjected to a shock collar unless it's the only thing keeping the dog alive. I know sporting dog trainers use them but, really, to me they signal total training failure. Is she really that irredeemable? Hopefully, not. So the next step: as someone else pointed out, it's OUR responsibility when dogs do bad things. We're the humans. We're the ones who should be able to remember to pick up laundry, close doors, and toilet lids (man, oh, man, if my dog drank out of a toilet because someone left that lid up, guess who I'd be PO'd at...? Not the dog!) So if they'd like this dog to remain in their house, they'd better start taking some responsibility. Here are some things you can tell them you need help with for starters: Greater innovation when it comes to finding a way to making the garbage unreachable (and if someone in your family discovers a fool proof method, please share with the rest of us! My garbage can sits on the top of my refrigerator! That's the ONLY safe place in the house right now). And if she doesn't respect the electric fence, she doesn't go outside off lead. Period. Back to pottying on lead, and it's a good to sneak in some training time while they're at it. Who in the household can help you with that? Family dog, right? So family effort. Or YOU can take on the dog fulltime, and they can all cook and clean and whatever other endless chores you probably get disproportionately stuck with already. Fair is fair. Will they help you? Kristine |
I'm so sorry you're having a rough time with her, despite all the time, money and effort you've already invested in her. But I'm also glad to hear that you really don't want to rehome her. 
I can totally empathize. I have one of those ultra-smart, ultra-savvy dogs, only now she's a senior. But for most of her life, she was a counter surfer, learned how to open the cabinet under the kitchen sink and slide out the garbage can. And when we put baby locks on the cabinet, she started chewing the wood!! She would also drink from toilets, loved to eat any kind of paper product (luckily she didn't eat clothing or shoes). I totally agree that while your husband's childhood dog did not do these things, he must understand that because Tigerlily DOES do these things, he needs to change his behavior. Same with the kids. Close doors, close toilet seats, no clothing lying around, no laundry baskets of clean clothes lying around, etc., etc., etc. And keep a good supply of batteries on hand!!
They really do slow down a bit as they age. But even at 14 yrs of age and being mostly lame due to bad hips, Drez STILL will get into the garbage can if we don't take it out, and will STILL drink from the toilet.  But she has such a sweet, loving, clingy personality otherwise that we just roll with the punches. She has her personality quirks and we have ours. We've just learned to live harmoniously. |
| I don't really have any advice for you, but just wanted to say that I understand. My husband also had the wonder pooch, and gets so frustrated when Dodger doesn't behave. To get him to start shutting doors and helping out, I left him with our pup for a few night. I had things to do, and took a few hours where it was just the two of them. After that, doors started getting shut, and toilet seats left down. Maybe you could try needing to go Christmas shopping (or something else like that) and leave your family with the responsibility of taking care of your girl for a bit. Hopefully they will feel your frustration, and begin helping out? Just an idea. |
| There is nothing wrong with your dog.
Quote: make the rounds to all the garbage cans in the house (or knock over and access the one outside) My Dixie gal is the world champion at getting into garbage. We have it locked away...Even the ones outside. Quote: Find stray laundry and ingest the undergarments Dixie will hide underware in places where I cannot find, but guests do.. Makes me keep it hidden from her.Quote: Lounge on the beds and furniture The furniture that I don't want the dogs on are barricaded behind a baby gate. The dogs only come in when supervised. Quote: drink from the toilets I just gave up on this one. It is cold and clean and available.... Quote: Eat everything that is not padlocked (yes, she opens the pantry doors and jumps on kitchen counters) The other pets' foods are not immune Absolutely normal. Food is food. Quote: Go the bathroom Is this a house-training issue? Quote: Walk into the neighbors houses if anyone is foolish enough to leave a door open
This is what we love about sheepies. They are so friendly. Your gal is not being naughty. She needs consistency in guidence, training and rewards for good behavior. Of cource she is good under the threat of being shocked. She is afraid to do anything. Along with seeing what your family can do so that you can all enjoy her more, maybe you can look at what you all can do to make her enjoy life more. I do not believe she is happy not knowing what is expected of her, and not being helped with being accepted for what she is, and by being punished for being a normal dog. I would suggest that she be re-homed, as the use of electric shock is being cruel to her at this point. |
| I don't really have advice but I just wanted to say that it's nice to see you and Tigerlily back on the forum. It had been so long, I thought you'd forgot about us! Tigerlily and Clyde are almost the same age (and you and I joined the forum at the same time) so I remember her well since we were all going through puppy stuff at the same time, too. She's one of those dogs with fun markings that you don't forget!
I'm sorry she's still mommy's little monster. Maybe you could get her a giant hamster ball to run around in?  Just kidding, but I do hope some of the advice that others have given helps.
Jill |
| It sounds like you've got my Panda!!! After 2 years, she still thinks just about everything is fun (except having her ears cleaned) but she learned limits- http://oesusa.com/Panda1126073.jpg I wish we were closer because I'd love to take her for a few months to try to turn her around. But it's more about the human training rather than the dog's.
WE went through Panda-Boot-Camp... she taught us well
Panda was a notorious counter-surfer. She ate an entire cantaloupe including seeds and rind... a bunch of bananas which she figured out how to peel along the way... she turned the stove burner on while we were out one day... she'd steal food off plates when we had our backs turned for a moment. I remember the UPS man coming to the door while we were having dinner... my husband got up to sign for the delivery and she immediately went to his plate and began eating while I sat there in shock! She'd steal bread, cookies, etc. off the counter. She pulled a huge kettle of cooled water (TG) that we had boiled chicken in off the stove and drank the water. The kettle has a fine dent in the bottom as a fond memory. We thought she had bloat one time and rushed her to the vet... we later discovered she had chewed a hole in the bag of kibble before it got into the pantry and she'd feasted. Garbage had to be placed in a room with a door which was kept closed... the wastebasket in the bathroom had to be placed on the back of the toilet tank. She's come out of the bathroom with soap, shampoo, etc. She destroyed many things because of her separation anxiety... boots, purses, car starter, books, etc. NOTHING of importance is left out anymore... before we leave on an errand we do a quick check and close bedroom/bathroom doors.
Clothes that are taken off are thrown down the laundry chute. No food is left on the counter or stove. We allow the dogs on all the furniture so that's not an issue here. We keep the lid on the toilet closed... I suppose you could get a child safety latch for it. We feed at scheduled times so there's no pet food lying around because everyone cleans their dish. We work at home so we're with them just about all the time except for dinner or errands. I'm sure Panda would be visiting all the neighbors too if we didn't have a fenced yard... she's just a happy, friendly, goofy girl. Should I mention she has allergies too? I give her allergy shots. She's on diet to help control yeast too and is doing well now. Time and consistency have corrected probably 95% of her "issues". She will still take something left out on occasion (like one of my electric clippers last month... I guess I have to suffer some disappointments to keep me on my toes). She will also occasionally pee on the floor if she feels she shouldn't be left alone... but if her bladder is emptied on schedule, it's not much of an issue. She has gotten so much better as she's gotten older and after her bladder defect was surgically corrected... or maybe it US that changed?? If I can be of help via long distance, please let me know. |
| As everyone has already said, your sheepie sounds pretty normal to me!! I am sure that doesn't make it any less frustrating or difficult for you to handle but with the exception of the potty issue I would not look for too much to change in the coming years.
Housebreaking you can do, you simply need to go back to square one, keep her confined unless bewing dirctly supervised and take her out often. Sheepies are mischievious clowns who will get into anything and everything. They also need lots LOTS LOTS of exercise. When Tasker was that age I would have to take him to my local Fairgrounds EVERYNIGHT and I would ride my bike with him trotting along beside me for a hour to get his energy level down to a manageable degree. Are YOU participating in the training, religiously or are you "having her trained". In my experience the best trainer in the world won't work if you aren't doing hands on yourself. I don't want to discourage you but, depsite the fact that I think Tasker is the BEST DOG IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, he will snatch anything he can reach off a counter, will open cupboards and draws to find stuff to scarf, gets into locked garbage cans, climbs on the furniture when no one is looking and will dig through a pile of laundry with unabandoned glee. I wouldn't trade him for anything in the world. Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| I don't mean to laugh, but it does sound like a typical sheepie behavior to me, too. They're positively incorrigible!! I hope you can get her to the point that you do enjoy her, though. I came home Saturday night to find that I'd forgotten to put away the plate of cookies the children had made that afternoon. The plate was licked clean and the only evidence there had ever been cookies there was a few stray crumbs they missed. I just laughed. Fortunately, they weren't anything that would hurt the counter surfing rascals. You've gotta love 'em. |
| Does she get along with other dogs? If so I would very very strongly suggest taking her to doggie daycare a few days a week. She will be exhausted by the end of the day, you will get your much needed break, and she will be socialized! |
| I agree that a routine is the most important part of getting an OES to start behaving. Ruby knows when it's 9p and will tell us to let her outside at this point. She get's a walk EVERY morning at 6am during the week and closer to 8am on the weekends. As for the other behaviors I think you really need to get the whole family involved otherwise you are probably fighting a losing battle. |
| Alinamarie!!!!!!
WELCOME BACK HERE!!!! I'VE MISSED YOU TERRIBLY AND HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT YOU AND TIGERLILLY OFTEN! I am sorry you are feeling so frustrated. I understand completely. Our first guy was soooo predictably bad. I used to get a great kick of frustration -- we'd go out the door, I'd count to 6 and go back in to find him countersurfing in the kitchen. Nothing ever brokehim of that bad habit or several others.... but he was a great dog in many other ways. Hey, stick around and feel free to vent! We don't mind. |
alinamarie wrote: I really, really need a break.
Someone very wise once told me we usually have our own answers if we just notice, listen or pay attention. Sounds like you may have yours. I was noticing in your picture album, maybe some littermates? Any chance Tigerlily can go visiting for a sleepover or even a doggie night care? Maybe if you get a much needed break you might miss her and can maybe make a fresh start. I'm thinking anyone who has went to as much expense and efforts must really love their dog! She must be very gentle to lie there with the little animal in the photo. Can you give her a big huge hug? If there's anything that they are good for it is hugs. Maybe she can give you some joy afterall. I'd say try it again even if you have already. Best of Luck! Please keep us posted. |
| I'm sorry about your frustrations. You've definitely been given a lot of things to think about - isn't this forum great for coming up with new ideas and/or re-clarifying ones we knew about?
I'm not sure how old your children are, but perhaps if they are older they could consider doing a training-sport-fun-exercise-thing with her. For instance, if they began to work agility with her at a class, they could work to meet goals each week with her. In order for those goals to be met, practice would happen during the week. With practice comes focus and a "job". This "job" would help to redefine her role in your house as more than just a family pet. I don't know if you have the time to commit to that, but I think creating a family role like this would be very helpful in shaving off some energy as well as teaching her to focus on the people in the house. And not just focus on them, but focus on them in a positive manner. Oh - and a think baby-proof doors are a marvelous thing! |
| You could invest in chainmail for the family,
http://www.jelldragon.com/chainmail.htm |
Ron wrote:
Cool site  I want a Pig Faced Bascinet! |
| I am sorry to say this she is simply board
Hugs from all at Tikki-ti-boo |
Didn't find exactly what you're looking for? Search again here:
Custom Search
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|