I am so happy I am not alone!
I grew up with a sheepie named Muffin. She was the most gentle loving and licking dog you could ever meet. Naively I thought that was what I was going to get again. We got Katie at 6wks, she is now about 4.5 mths. While she is the most adorable thing on earth I sometimes think she is the devil. From the beginning she has been aggressive. For starters, I think the breeder gave her to us a bit to early but I didn't know any better. Then I think my husband played with her in the beginning like she was the Rottweiler he had wanted. Lots of chase and tug of war that would get her very excited. Then I would come outside and want to play nice lovey dovey games and she would still be in attack mode. It was very frustrating and many tears were shed. She also mouthed and nipped a lot and you really could not spend any time with her. I was going to put her in classes as soon as possible but then thought she might need "special" attention so we got her a trainer that came to our home. Now not having many dogs, seeing this kind of training was upsetting to me at first. The trainer has us use a pinch collar. When she has that thing on though she is a dream dog. She will lie quietly beside me and will obey every command. Take it off and she is back to her barking, pouncing, nipping and growling self. Hopefully spaying and time will bring that to an end. But again only having the one perfect OES in the past I have been so sad thinking what was wrong with mine. But now everyone is describing everything I am going thru and it gives me such renewed optimism to keep working with her. Because, yes one look from her and I forget everything. I email the parents of her littermates and we even play with one in the city and they all say there pups are just fine so again I am glad I am not alone and will be visiting the site many a time in the future |
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| A big welcome to the forum Katie Muffin!
I'm glad you found the site, it is amazing, lots of info and lots of people who are here to help, listen, and share stories with. Sometimes we make mistakes along the way with our sheepies that may have a bigger effect than we would imagine. I've made many, but plenty of love and patience and persistence will get you through this!  |
| yea welcome to the forum! your situation sounds very very similar to mine and walters. i found soo much valuable info on this message board that looking back im not sure what i wouldve done without it.
i think the most important advice that i followed is to seek out a vet that has a behaviorist on staff that deals with the kinds of issues walter and i were having troubles with. if you ahvent talked to anyone like this yet i think it might be helpful. also, i had the same experience with trainers using pinch collars and punishment methods... it was so upsetting to me (i cried the first time i saw it! and the trainer told me i needed to get tough with him!) getting tough with walter made things so much worse. i could get him to do anything i wanted when it was training time but like you said once the pinch collar came off he was a maniac! unfortunately the times i needed him to listen to me the most were the times the pinch collar wasnt on (leaving the house or coming in, you cant leave a pinch collar on when hes home alone so what was i supposed to do??) out behaviorist recommended positive reinforcement training, with positive reinforcement training you can teach your pup to listen to you all the time, they wont be doing it out of fear but because they actually want to. its soooo much nicer for both of you to use treats instead of "corrections". all dogs are different, but if the pinch collar is upsetting you and only solving half the problem positive reinforcement might be something you want to try out! |
| also:
i think its really really good that you are taking your sheepie to play with other dogs. if she is playing well with them then you have one really good thing going for you. tiring her out and teaching her to play nicely with the other dogs is in my opinion so valuable for her socialization! |
| Katie Muffin is very cute.I love it when sheepie puppies give you this look. |
| Hi and Welcome to the forum! Katie Muffin is a real cutie there!
I agree with Lil Walty, socialization is a great thing and it's a good thing that it's not showing aggression towards other dogs, so you have hope. I play very rough with Lennon sometimes and my wife was afraid that I was turning him into an kinda of agressive dog or one that could be not controlled. After reading some tips for controlling bad manners everything is okay now. Puppies have a natural tendency to nip and bite everything because their mouth is their main tool for exploring the world. If your puppy nips, whine like a puppy everytime she does it and eventually she'll get the message that it hurts. Learning to communicate on doggie languaje is the key, because you may say "ouch!", but it's something humans understand, not puppies. So far, your puppy think's it's fun to nip on those insensitive humans that feel no pain...  That trick saved us a lot of nips and cuts.
About rough play, it's better not to do it if you can avoid, because you have to know how to control an 80 pound muscular doggie when fully developed, Lennon and I play still play rough but under my rules. I never surrender the toy or let him get higher than me. To end rough play, I roll him on his back to show him that I am stronger and the leader of the pack, then rub his belly so he does not feel threatened in that vulnerable position. Just tell your husband to be careful because if you get hit by a paw, claw or fang, you can get hurt, (no blood or cuts don't worry) They are very strong! His hands must be away from your dog's mouth to avoid accidents, your dog will not bite you if he or she trusts you, but accidents can happen. If you loose the tug toy, towel or ball during rough play you are showing her that she is in the higher herarchy in the pack and she will contend your authority every time she can. Best educational tool is to grab their mouth with one hand and shut it close and saying NO! on a very firm tone of voice, that's exactly how wolves and wild dogs tell their young that their manners are unnaceptable, so next time your Katie wants to play rough and you don't feel like it, ignore her or grab her mouth like I explained before. Don't apply a lot of pressure, the idea is not to hurt but to educate. A special signal for rugh play may also help. I don't have experience qith pinch collars, I use a choke collar to stop them from pulling the leash and it works great, they need less and less corrective action every time, and hopefully one day all I will need for a quiet walk will be a normal collar. Hope this advise helps, good luck and don't forget to post more pictures of Katie Muffin! |
| Hi Katie Muffin, Welcome from a fellow but former Manitoban!
Nab also plays agressive with my husband but I've let her know right from the start, that is not to continue with me. I also use the hold the muzzle trick. I get hold of her collar with one hand and one hand around her muzzle and I tell her no. I get right in her face and very quietly I tell her no fights with mommy...play fight are for Dad and only Dad. I then give her kisses, let her go and give her hugs and rubs. I also repeat this if she tries to get aggressive with any of the kids. She is now 5 months old and only plays rough with my husband and my neighbors husband. She has tried to play rough with other males and got the speach so now she asks to play first by going low to the ground and giving a sharp bark. She then looks to me for the yes or no. Hope this helps! |
| Thanks for the advice everybody. She is doing much better. I think changing my attitude towards her and getting a bit more aggressive with her when she acts up and not showing her that I may be intimidated has helped. I agree with reducing the amount of aggressive play she gets but our trainer discourages holding her muzzle. She says it annoys her more than anything else. I had been trying it before the trainer and and no matter how many times I did it she would snap right back. I guess it works with some. |
| Hi Katie Muffin's mom, Katie Muffin is just adorable.
You should read thorugh some old posts on this forum, this issue has been discussed frequently. The best advice I got was twofold 1) yelp when Katie Muffin bites you. You make a high pitched yelp just like a hurt puppy, that is exactly what her littermates would do, and 2) IMMEDIATELY when you yelp, stop what ever you are doing and walk away. Ignore Katie Muffin completely for a minute or so. Dogs love attention, even negative attention so the worst punishment you can give is to ignore them. I even gave Henry time outs: I left the room and closed the door, again only for a minute or so. This method may take a while but it works! And neither you nor your dog have to worry about scary punishment, which only makes your dog scared of you and doesn't really change the unwanted behavior. |
| Thanks Henry's Mom,
I have tried that a bit and it has worked. When she gets aggressive with me outside I have just turned my back to her and she stops immidiatly. I have tried the yelping too and she seems to be sorry about whatever she has done and starts to get all cuddly. Thanks for the advice. |
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