Breeding Just Once
We have a 6 month old female Sheepdog "IZZY". We are throwing around the idea of breeding her one time? We do not want to go into the business of breeding but would just like to have a litter one time. Any suggestions. Comments, warnings, etc. Thanks, Laurie |
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To breed just because, you are going to get some neqative feedback on this. It really is not a good idea, from start to finish it is big issue, hopefully breeders on this site will inform you. To me it is real scary of all the things that can go wrong, and you still have to find GOOD homes for these pups that can be up to 13  . Just their health of mom and pups the prep and supplies and WHAT IF..... |
| Please look at these topics before you do anything.
Breeding threads Breeding a good dog is a science and a lot of thought, research and genetic testing needs to be in place before considering it. I know others will chime in... |
| Holy cow - I don't even know where to start.
Do you love the breed? Then please please please read all our threads about breeding, and then don't do it. There are a zillion reasons/excuses people use to breed, and 99% of them are BAD. Shellie |
| Boy have you opened the proverbial worm can!!!!! I doubt you will find anyone on this forum who will support "throwing around the idea of breeding". The good news is you have absolutely come to the right place to learn WHY that idea is not such a good one.
Jill posted some breeding threads, I encourage you to take the time to read through those threads as well as the rest of the forum to learn why we feel so strongly that breeding is best left to those with the education and expertise. WELCOME and please do share pictures and stories aobut your girl. |
| Hi Laurie welcome to the forum, is this your first ever OES? If so then you have a lot to learn, being your sheepie girl is only 6 months old. You have not even begun to learn about how an OES matures right through to old age if this is your first time with the breed.
Please read the threads posted by ButterStoch there is a lot talked about in these postings and all the responsibility and things that can and do go wrong when one considers breeding even if it is just a one off thing you want to do. Take the time and read all that has been said. It takes years of learning and knowledge before taking the next step to ensure a happy outcome for you with puppies and also the people that end up with a pup from you as well. The medical section here is good to learn what happens when people do just breed willy nilly and also read through the rescue part and the dogs in trouble, that is an education in itself with inexperienced people breeding and the possible outcome of pups they have produced.  |
| Welcome to the forum. I would love to see pictures!
I will just throw in my two sense. It is so much more difficult than just "having a litter". You obviously love your dog if you think she is breeding material, but please leave the breeding to the professionals. You wouldn't let just anyone fix the transmission in your car would you? Too many of us have puppies that came from irresponible breeders (not pointing fingers here), and now have heartache because of it. Joe Shmoe doesn't know how to fix a transmission, but Burnett Automotive sure does. |
| Hi Laurie!!!
Welcome to the forum! As I mentioned in my PM to you, unless other info arises, I too would hope that you will decide not to breed your dog. Perhaps you can become involved with a reputable breeder who will allow you and/or your family to be involved in the breeding process, and maybe you can satisfy your desires that way! I am looking forward to hearing about Izzy! ummm... that should be reading about Izzy!  |
Welcome Laurie 
Just some things to consider... This page from The Old English Sheepdog Club of America is about buying a puppy but can be taken from a perspective breeder's point of view- http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamer ... owning.htm * Get the cost of having an emergency c-section done if the labor doesn't go well. (Knew a breeder it happened to twice.) * Find out how to handle Fading Puppy Syndrome where pups die for no known reason. (Knew a breeder it happened to twice.) This may help to save them- http://www.hemopet.org/files/QQ%20Treat ... ome%20.pdf * Consider what you'll do if a pup like this is born and you have to either euthanize or tube feed around the clock for the first 4+ weeks- http://www.oesusa.com/Cleft-Palate-Pupp ... -puppy.htm (Knew a breeder it happened to and God bless her, she sacrificed/devoted the time required to save the pup who will be 3 years old this month.) * Will you do all the pretesting? Consider how you'll feel if you produce Old English Sheepdogs destined to suffer hip dysplasia if you didn't do all the required pretesting for health conditions. The dog shown in the links below was rehomed 3 times in her first 10 months of life not including the 3-4 weeks she spent at a Humane Society in NJ- people failed/gave up on her most likely starting with the breeder. http://www.oesusa.com/Panda2005.jpg http://oesusa.com/PandaXray1.jpg Other conditions which affect this breed include low thyroid and other autoimmune diseases; deafness; PRA which is a condition where the dog's eyes are basically programed to go blind; the hereditary disease called canine ataxia which is a serious brain disorder- http://www.caninegeneticdiseases.net/ataxia/ ; etc. You can review the conditions that affect OESs at http://www.oeshealth.org . From what I hear, there is so much more to good breeding than simply pretesting. Learn what reputable and ethical breeders do in order to create pups that better the breed. Lastly, will you take back puppies/dogs you had a hand in creating if people decide they no longer want them or they're defective in some way? Or will they end up like some of the dogs here- http://thesheepiestore.com/Assistance.htm I have 4 female OESs and all are spayed. I actually felt bad when I had my first 2 sheepies spayed because I felt it was ending the line of great dogs. BUT... we ALL feel our own dogs are the greatest! Unless your girl has some true "best of the best" qualities (if this is the case, the breeder should be showing their dogs), get her spayed and enjoy her as a companion. It will also help to prevent mammary cancer and pyometra.
I honestly don't mean to preach... it's just that I've seen what happens when breeding is not done to create the best and healthiest dogs possible. I love this breed too much to simply ignore your question. The only way we can learn is by sharing. Good luck with your decision. |
| We got Max 9 years ago with the express purpose of breeding with Stella....I began my research and when I got to the part about how many of the pups from a littler of 10-12 would wind up in a shelter during their lifetime, I had both of my dogs fixed.
NO WAY was I going to be party to even ONE of these magnificent creatures being mistreated or homeless. |
| My dream all my life has always been to move to the country and breed dogs.
I now have a wonderful,quality pup from a respected breeder with a great champion line. Heart has the sweetest temprement, the thickest fullest coat, the best genes handed down from many generations. I really believe breeding her would be for the betterment of the breed. I am considering showing her to qualify all of this.................. Having said all this.............and knowing how much my dream is right at my doorstep, I could not breed my girl alone--too many things can and sometimes do go wrong and the result could be fatal to Heart and or the puppies. So I guess what I am trying to say in my opinion is ..............please don't breed just to breed.......................educate yourself ---talk to many breeders...be a helper to a breeder and go through the process from testing, pregnancy, birth, whelping..........then do it again....... You have alot of time since you should not breed her until she is 3 and can get a clean bill of health from any genetic problems---- Again,,,,just my opinion............ |
| Hello and welcome to the forum. Please listen to all here who have the knowledge!!!!! That is all I can say about this subject. |
| This is the kind of thread I can see as a sticky or something since many people come here just to get answers to this question and then leave. |
| I think if we put any more stickies on this page, they'll be no room for new threads. |
| true |
| How about a new catagory devoted to breeding? |
| Sorry, I made the wrong impression of breeding "just because" sorry.
I just wanted to stess that we were not interested in becoming full time breeders. We have a very beautiful dog and would be interested in breeding her. We had heard that it is good for the dog. It helps the dog become a more caring, less- self centered dog. The dogs are happier and more content than dogs that are not allowed to experience this process. We would breed her with a reputable breeder if we were able to find one willing to breed her. |
laroth wrote: We have a very beautiful dog and would be interested in breeding her. We had heard that it is good for the dog. It helps the dog become a more caring, less- self centered dog. The dogs are happier and more content than dogs that are not allowed to experience this process. That is the biggest bunch of balldersah I ever heard. I don't know who told you that but they are wrong wrong wrong. I hope you have taken time to read the many educated and informed posts about breeding that are on this forum. If you have then you must now realize that "breeding just" once because you have a "beautiful" dog is a totally wrong thing to do. To be a "reputable breeder" you MUST go into it full time with your whole heart and mind. It isn't a "once time thing". I am actually suprised at the very few responses to this thread as this is a subject most of us are very passionate about. But it may be because we have found that when people post a thread about breeding "just once" they really aren't interested in our opinion, they are looking for approval. What you are considering is just plain wrong. Please, for the sake of the breed and your beautiful girl, don't breed her. Have her neutered. |
| I think you may have gotten faulty info-
Quote: We had heard that it is good for the dog. It helps the dog
become a more caring, less- self centered dog. The dogs are happier and more content than dogs that are not allowed to experience this process. This sounds to me like projecting human emotions onto the dog. Even if there is the slightest validity to it, it isn't a good reason to breed. How do you know your dog is improving the standard for OES? Why would you breed her if you don't know that? I'm not trying to be nasty. We have many many posts here about breeding and lots of info to share, but I feel like the message isn't coming across to people who only want to "breed once". It isn't a casual thing. Just a thought - have you considered going to the oesca website and getting in contact with one of the listed breeders? Having a reputable breeder to tell you all the hows and whys and to give you advice in general may give you a huge "ahhaa!" moment. I doubt very highly you will find a truly reputable breeder who is willing to help you breed your dog 'just once'. We may come off as very harsh here on the subject of breeding. This is why we pointed you to other discussions of the subject, so you would have the opportunity to understand why. We are passionate about this breed. If you love your dog, as I am certain you do, please take the time to find out what a reputable breeder actually is. It takes lots of learning, lots of work, lots of planning. It takes showing your dog to know how it is judged in comparison to the standard. We all love our dogs and think it would be great to have a litter of puppies just like them, but that is part of why we have so many dogs in rescues and shelters. Shellie |
Quote: We have a very beautiful dog and would be interested in breeding her. We had heard that it is good for the dog. It helps the dog become a more caring, less- self centered dog. The dogs are happier and more content than dogs that are not allowed to experience this process. We ALL have very beautiful dogs. If you want yours exposed to babies, volunteer to foster puppies or kittens for your local shelter. You'll be helping a pet that may otherwise be doomed and you won't be adding to the dog overpopulation problem or possible health problems that already affect this breed because of incompetent breeding practices. According to American Humane... " It is widely accepted that 9.6 million animals are euthanized annually in the United States." Too many dogs that no one wants. Will you take back all dogs that you create when people get tired of them or they no longer fit the owner's lifestyle or they get new white carpet or have a baby or feel guilty because he/she stays home alone so often or because he/she's too big or too hairy, etc.? That could be 11 or 12 dogs. Quote: We would breed her with a reputable breeder if we were able to find one willing to breed her.
I'm certain you'll find someone to breed her. I doubt it will be a reputable OESCA breeder though unless she came from one. Just my opinion... |
Same subject, a little different approach. This is a conversation I tried to stay out of until the convoluted logic to justify breeding became so over the top, I had to say something  .........
Conversation between two Pug owners. Roxy is less than 1 year. 1. Pug people are PATIENT people haha! Our little (fatty) Roxy girl is a lover... but wow, she has taught us patience! Oh by the way, we will be breeding her with our neighbors Pug, Senor Nacho, so this spring.... we will have babies to sell, hopefully to neighborhood people. I dont have the heart to separate a mommy from her babies!!! haha! 2. Puppies, fun! We bred Mulan (our pug) 3 times, she is retired now, but it was a lot of fun. Nothing is cuter than a box full of pugs! Have fun with it and when she has them can we come visit? 1. Oh I am so scared to breed her. I want to breed her.... our vet said it will calm her down (she needs to calm down!) but I am scared I wont have the heart to get rid of the puppies! AHH. Pug puppies are SO cute!! and yes, PLEASE come over when she has the puppies, I can use all the help I can get! 2. Not to scare you more, but it was not too fun at first, Mulan ( pugs in general) don't like being the mommy, they like being the baby, and she had six her first litter. She had to have a c-section! Hahah. And yes it killed me to sell the puppies, we had interviews with the prospective parents and gave them the speech about not having them be an outside dog and what they could expect, we even named them, I don't recommend this. You will fall in love with them all because they are so darn cute! I would love to help you, it is a lot of work! But so fun, my daughter was 4 when Mulan had her first litter, and she helped me so much and learned a lot. Now she is 10 and Mulan is 7. 3. Spaying the pup would calm her more than a litter of puppies. It would take away the hormone issues completely, and it would be less stressful for all involved. If you really want to have puppies in the house, contact the Pug rescue, they are always looking for foster homes. You get to enjoy the pups, your Pug gets to do the mothering thing, and you both save them from certain death until they get a forever home. It doesn't get better than that. 2. AHH a C SECTION! holy smokes. SIX puppies! as scary as that sounds, at the same time, there is some good money there! WOW. I dont want my Roxy girl to die though. She isnt a large pug, so maybe she will have a smaller litter! WOW, we will take all the help we can get! Both Roxy ang Senor Nacho are on the small side! And nacho's family has 4 little kids that are so excited about the "wedding ceremony" and for puppies! It will be hard to see the puppies go though! This is why I am HOPING they go to local residents! I did hear that mama pugs dont like being a mom, but it all depends on the dog, so I hear. We shall learn the hard way I guess! Pug puppies do melt your heart though. I still can not believe I let my husband talk me into getting a pug, the snorting, snoring, hyperness... oh she is so cute! Seriously, we need a pug play date! 3. I don't know anything about Pugs, but I do know, any dog that is bred should be at least 2 years old and NEVER be bred more than once every 18-24 months (just like people), have a genetic health clearance for all medical issues pertaining to that breed, and meet the defined specifications for the breed. Otherwise the chance of creating pups that are not healthy is tremendous, leaving those who adopt them to deal with years of medical problems, a compromised life for the pup, and worst of all, the lose of the animal at an age much younger than normal. If your little pug has difficulty with the pregnancy, are you ready for the vet bills? It can run thousands. Leave breeding to the experts. God forbid one of your babies finds it's way to a puppy mill (it happens more than you think, it is hell on earth for the animal), or worse, your little girl dies while trying to give birth. 1. Good luck to you -----! My pug also got married, isn't that funny! I didn'y know how else to explain it to my daughter! My e-mail is------. let me know when you breed you pug. I would love to get together. Don't be discouraged with some of the comments, you should go for it! Have fun 
I just wish I knew which end these folks use to think. Help me here, does anyone explain the arrival of puppies by marriage???? |
| That makes me sick. |
Tasker's Mom wrote: That is the biggest bunch of balldersah I ever heard. I don't know who told you that but they are wrong wrong wrong. Ooops, ment to type BALLDERDASH!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Ginny, I think there weren't that many posts in this particular threads since we offered a link to all the previous breeding discussions early on in the thread. That kind of covers a lot! |
ButtersStotch wrote: Ginny, I think there weren't that many posts in this particular threads since we offered a link to all the previous breeding discussions early on in the thread. That kind of covers a lot!
yea well, it also says a lot that apparently those links weren't read  |
| We all have beautiful dogs and those beautiful dogs can carry bad genetic health traits.
Please go into the OESCA Web site, and read what OES can carry health wise and pass on to the next generation if you don't know what you are doing. http://www.oeshealth.org/ Sorry to say this too, but no ethical breeder would allow a dog to stud your bitch for a one off litter. Back yarders would as they don't care what is produced in puppies all they worry about is the dollar side of things. Getting a stud fee. Please seek a mentor from the OESCA to fill you in on detailed information and I think & hope you will change your mind on this. |
Quote: yea well, it also says a lot that apparently those links weren't read
Ain't that the truth... so it must be repeated time and again. The saddest part is that despite all the commonsense thoughts and wisdom shared, some people will to go off and be irresponsible anyway. But we can't just give up in trying to educate people on OES breeding ethics. Some people WILL actually think this through and either do all that is necessary to be an ethical breeder with an OESCA mentor or won't breed at all. It's about being selfLESS for the good of the breed... thinking of the breed and the puppies they might create first and foremost. "Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD." |
6Girls wrote: Quote: It's about being selfLESS for the good of the breed... thinking of the breed and the puppies they might create first and foremost. Lol. So it's the opposite of the argument "Breeding the dog will make it less self centered." Not breeding the dog will make YOU less self centered! |
| Yup
That and also... If you aren't going to do it the right way, don't do it at all. I'd better get back to cleaning the house |
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