DebRic's Old English Sheepdogs

Has anybody heard of DebRic's Old English Sheepdog?

Respond to this topic here on forum.oes.org

I have been told that they are a huge OES puppy mill.

I'd RUN away

Thanks for the info, that's what I thought. Glad to know now before it's too late.

opp's sorry now not know lol great first impression

please RUN FAST, or my limping year and half dog will catch you :evil:

They do have an impressive website, but speaking from experience do not go this route! I wish I would have found this site before I went that route. It is well worth your time to investigate options and find a reputable breeder. Websites can be deceiving! My 18 month old is only 47 pounds! Only one problem we have faced.....

I don't know anything about this breeder... is this the same business? It has a classification as "Pet Shops" on the BBB website.
http://nwfl.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx ... m=90006844

I hope everyone will take time to file complaints with the Better Business Bureau against breeders that sold an inferior or genetically defective dog and won't honor a guarantee. (Some states also have lemon-laws from what I hear.) It will go on public record as a problem and if they don't reply, this too is noted for the public to see.

BUT...
As a consumer, we MUST follow a complaint through to completion for it to mean anything. Someone did file a complaint with the BBB back in 2004 but didn't respond.

It won't help the dogs they've already profited from but eventually it might help to lessen the demand for a breeder's puppies. And as people become more educated about asking the right questions before they buy, maybe some of the bad breeders will eventually close down because it's no longer a profitable business. :plead:

spyryt song wrote:

If you consider a bunch of broken links and no evidence of any kind of genetic research, testing or evaluation, well then, I guess that's pretty impressive. I think the first red flag I see in looking at the site is the countdown of her 3 bitches ready to give birth within a week or so of each other.

From the site:

Quote:

Where breeding is from the heart. We breed for quality and loving personality.

Breeding from heart is a big line of garbage. That's a nice way of saying that we don't breed to standard and we really have no idea what we're doing. You can't breed for quality if you don't know what quality is.

And Maggie Mae's last litter born 5-4-07, and due AGAIN in 10 days - according to the count down on the web site. :evil:

That is sad that the females are bred so often.

On a side note... I went to look at the website and you can see the past litters with their new names. Someone named their dog Snuffilufigus! :lol:

Great Question. We should have a list of these bad breeders

I bought a puppy from them (I know I know) luckily for me I found out before I brought him home that he a bleeding disorder. took the credit card companies and the Florida ag and markets to get the money back.. I found out the dog died from internal bleeding. I know someone who got a dog that died within weeks - same disorder. I tried to get Florida Ag and markets to close them down. They are very slick

It is sad, but their site does look good, which gets alot of people. What is a bleeding disorder?? Sorry may be silly question but I really do not know, are they born with this?

ej wrote:

It is sad, but their site does look good, which gets alot of people. What is a bleeding disorder?? Sorry may be silly question but I really do not know, are they born with this?

Are you sure we're looking at the same site? I was looking at:
http://myoes.com/

That site looks amateur and the majority of the things that you click on go nowhere. I won't even start on the moving pictures! It's a cluttered mess.

Is someone looking somewhere else?

Try debric.com

The website doesn't look that great to me either.

How great the website is or isn't doesn't reflect at all on how good the puppies would be :roll:

Having a good or bad website only shows how good at website creation and maintenence you are :evil:

Betsy wrote:

Try debric.com

Yeah, it's just the same lousy site with another name.

I did go back to the site your right things did not open up and I did not do the video it was a fast peek earlier, I quess I meant to say if someone is looking for a pup and NOT know what to look for that they have pups NOW they have it... I have a client that went to the city to baby shop and came back with a pup maisiff (spelling) saying she was cheap enough... and thinking of breeding her.

she really did not care about to much... so I quess that is what I had on my mind, people who do not look into things to closely or do not really know how.

This is pretty sad. I was watching the puppy camera and for 35 minutes nobody, not a human interacted with those puppies! I would think if I have a littler no matter if they are outside or inside, I still would want to check up on them!

The website is cheap and nasty looking, I agree with Jill. I don't want to brag, but my website (dog training, not breeding) was for free... :roll:

and I think it looks A LOT better than this.

But I met a women a couple of months ago, who just bought a beagle puppy for $1000 from a pet store and she wanted to breed him too. I asked her if she had any of his papers, if he was healthy, etc. nothing. She said she just wants to have puppies. I asked her what she was going to do with the puppies and her answer was "I don't know, but they are so cute!" This makes me so mad! :evil:

When I was looking for my oes, I was very new to this and did not have any idea about how to go about it. I could not find any breeders in my state and found the debric site and called Debby. In all fairness to the newbies out there, not everyone knows exactly how to go about finding the dog they are looking for. If I had known all that I do now, there is no way I would have gotton a puppy from them. Like everything in life, you live and learn...... and you hope to help others not make the same mistakes.

As much as I hate to admit it, this is where Finn is from

Needless to say, I had not found the forum at that time, and was very naive.
As a result, I have a young dog that is probably going to have thousands of dollars of orthopedic surgery. Hindsight is 20/20, and it is not to say that I love him any less, because honestly, I don't think I could love him more.
I am more upset with myself than anything else, I can't believe I ignored that inner voice that said stay away. I wanted a puppy sooner than later, and the fact that she had puppies available made me more excited than anything.
I hope it is a lesson for others to think before they jump into the same kind of situation, and that even though my pet is a "mill pup", and I'll never make the same mistake again, I wouldn't trade him. I am just glad I am in the situation where I can give him the life he deserves. I am sure there are a lot of the puppies facing similar things with families that don't know or can't afford to do anything about their dogs' problems.

You should never feel bad about where your dog came from. We've all been there, myself included. The important part is that you're armed with all the knowledge you need to make an excellent decision next time. Now you know what to look for. I always feel that as long as you learn from your experiences and act accordingly later, you've done everyone as right as you can.

ej wrote:

What is a bleeding disorder?? Sorry may be silly question but I really do not know, are they born with this?

I am sorry its been a couple of years but as I rember it they pups had hereditary hemophilia type disorders. I really don't remember all of the specifics but there is considerable on line information about the disorders. OES are over represented in the cases if I remember correctly.

Quote:

Absolutely... I bought two sheepies that were almost 1,400 miles away having viewed only pictures over the internet.

They were my very first pure bred dogs and it was during a time of grief. Fortunately these two sisters have wonderful temperaments and the few health problems they have now seem to be under control (both have low thyroid and one has severe seasonal allergies).

Though we went about buying an Old English Sheepdog the wrong way, there is absolutely no way I would ever trade my sweet/naughty girls. But we all can help to educate others by our own mistakes... so those who listen may be saved from future heartache. It may also eventually help the breed as a whole.

The one thing that makes me mad is, we all educate others from our bad decisions/experiences. So then people buy from good breeders (AKC registered) this is good. But... then the puppy mill breeders continue to pump out pups at an alarming rate with no one to buy and care for these animals. So these poor pups end up where? Just sad, really sad!

shon wrote:

But... then the puppy mill breeders continue to pump out pups at an alarming rate with no one to buy and care for these animals. So these poor pups end up where? Just sad, really sad!

There will always be people to buy at least the majority of these pups. In my case I ended up there and later with another easily accessbile breeder because I could get a puppy. SOmetimes OESCA hasn't been easy to work.

I am in the same situation as Sheepie in VT... I really wanted a puppy and I loved the idea that debric had video cameras so I could watch her grow up. I guess I am one of those people who believe that people are honest and authentic and I am very angry with myself for being so naive. Even with some of my puppies issues, I trusted what Debby told me and I should have listened to that inner voice. But when you are very new to a situation, you lack the knowledge to make good informed decisions and there are people in the world who take advantage of that. Despite everything, I truly love my dog and would also not trade her for a perfect puppy. It is my hope that others will see the posts regarding Debric and take the time to educate themselves and find a reputable breeder that cares about this breed and is not out to cheat people.

shon wrote:

So then people buy from good breeders (AKC registered) this is good.

Most Puppy Mill puppies have their AKC registrations too.... It does NOT mean that they are good breeders because they can give you papers.

My Toy Poodle had his AKC papers and was VERY poorly breed. He didn't even look like breed standard.

Our first puppy is from Debbie. I am so sorry and shocked to hear about those of you who have puppies from her with health problems. Our puppy is almost a year old and has a wonderful temperament and great health.

We initially were working with a "reputable" breeder with champion show dogs who had been mentioned positively on this forum. After visiting her 2 times, we decided to put a deposit on a puppy for her next litter. We were lied to and told that puppies were on the way. A few weeks after they were supposed to be due, we were told it was a false pregnancy all along. We still haven't received our deposit back.

After this huge disappointment (waiting months for a puppy that was never even on its way), we were desperate and figured we couldn't trust anybody, so we looked online for available pups. Being naive, we were initially impressed by Debbie's website and the live cam. Not to mention they do have an impressive 3 year health guarantee. Sure it is a lame website, but it is a lot more than other breeders have to offer. I also spoke with Debbie at length on the phone, and she was very friendly and helpful answering my questions about her puppies. I felt like I could trust her.

We LOVE our puppy, but I will NOT get another puppy from Debbie. I was so disappointed to see all of her litters and breeding the same dog in a year... Not to mention all of your stories.

It will be difficult for us to trust any breeder next time we get a puppy. Just wanted to share my experience.

Anonymous wrote:

I know you've probably heard this a million times already, but please don't let that experience sour you on all reputable, OESCA referred breeders. There's a bad apple in every bunch no matter how hard you try to get them all out, you know? So many people have excellent breeders that have given them awesome puppies and they've had great experiences with those breeders. I know the disappointment was huge for you and I can completely commiserate with how you must've felt but not everyone is like her. You did the right things in making your first choice, unfortunately, no one could've predicted the outcome you got stuck with. I'm sorry that that happened to you.

For those who contemplate buying from a questionable "breeder" when an OESCA breeder doesn't get back to you fast enough...

Try giving an OES Rescue Contact a call. Most contacts in the area know who the bad breeders are because their dogs end up in rescue all the time. They can tell you whether to RUN or check the breeder out further. The Rescue Contact List can be found right here on oes.org.

The information a Rescue Contact will give you may be exactly what you're reading here except it comes from a voice on the phone rather than print on a computer screen. Apparently verbal communication means a great deal when buying a dog because so many people are sucked in by the "nice lady" from the puppymill on the telephone. :evil:

Many people on the Rescue Contact List are OESCA members. Of course, some are breeders but most aren't. I'm always happy to direct people to the Breeder Referral Chairman. Or throw out some names of good breeders in our area. Almost any Rescue Contact on that list would be willing to make a few calls on your behalf just to keep you from making a huge mistake. Persistence is key when dealing with good breeders. Most are busy actually caring for their animals, showing, researching pedigrees and learning more about how to do things correctly. Oh, and some even have paying jobs. :wink:

I'm only throwing this out as a suggestion because so many people use the excuse that OESCA breeders aren't "buyer friendly". Anything I can do to discourage the sale of puppies from unethical breeders is worth the effort.

Anonymous wrote:

We initially were working with a "reputable" breeder with champion show dogs who had been mentioned positively on this forum. After visiting her 2 times, we decided to put a deposit on a puppy for her next litter. We were lied to and told that puppies were on the way. A few weeks after they were supposed to be due, we were told it was a false pregnancy all along. We still haven't received our deposit back.

I believe I know who you are speaking about. Feel free to register if you're not a member here already, and PM me if you want to discuss this further. If this is the breeder I am thinking about, you are not alone in this situation, and I know that action has been taken. Her reputation has totally soured these past several months in the OES world if that makes you feel any better at all. I truly hope you get your money back. I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience with a "reputable" breeder. I know that OESCA truly does try to weed out people who make poor decisions with their breeding program.

Quote:

We were lied to and told that puppies were on the way. A few weeks after they were supposed to be due, we were told it was a false pregnancy all along. We still haven't received our deposit back.

Dear Guest...
If you haven't already, please take time to write to OESCA and share your experience with this breeder. If they receive enough complaints it seems logical that they would take steps to distance themselves from a particular bad apple that could also tarnish their reputation.

And Nita's right... I hope people with also check with rescues! 4 years ago I didn't even know that OES rescues existed.

I just wanted to say:

My mom is looking for a puppy now that their Maggie has passed on. She googled OES and she found Debric's site right away. She was impressed by the puppy cam and pictures and stuff. I told her about this thread going on and she was so surprised. But I just wanted to say that in a way it IS a better website than a lot of other sheepdog websites out there and just the fact that it HAS a website is a plus, especially for people like my mom who work full time and don't have a lot of time to call around places. Of course she's not considering this person anymore (not that she was seriously considering it in the first place)...but that a smart, sheepie-familiar person can be sucked in to a site like that one...

barney1 wrote:

She googled OES and she found Debric's site right away. .

When I google Old English Sheepdog the top ones are Old English sheepdog club of America, NEOESR, and OES.org. Is she googling OES Breeder or something? Not trying to fault your mom, but why would she just stop at one place and settle for the first thing she saw? Adding a new family member I would think was worthy of some research...

In that last post by barney, I didn't see where she said she only looked at one place.

While reading the sites always recommended, to someone looking for "a pet" ...even after the proper info, many still feel they are making the right decision for their family. While I know better now, I was bored to death with "recommended sites" and many of the websites from the "better breeders." Their websites rarely or never had enough to bring me in, and just because they were on a list of good breeders didn't mean the rest were bad to me.

Appearance (website wise) says a lot when buying something esp. online. This goes for practically anything you buy. You tend to go to the one that looks the most professional, most informative.

Now you can now say "how are these byb type sites informative?" ...........but I never said they were as far as hip tests, etc, but they contain information that a normal joe looking for "a pet" wants: puppy pics, lots of info on the process of getting one of their pups, guarantees that sound good at the time whether they end up being true or not, a family page that makes you feel the pups are taken care of, etc...

Again, when you tell the average joe why and how to buy from a "good" breeder ........in my experience, they are turned off esp. after seeing prices. What's right......and what most do are two different things. You can't convince most of these people you are right either, and I'm sure we've all had friends like this. They don't care b/c past experience says their not so perfect dogs are always healthy.

(my post was in general, particularly replying to guest ...i've never visited the site of the person in question)

Can we not even talk about websites when researching puppies?
Websites are a good jumping off point but most of the best sheepdog people don't even have websites and by limiting yourself to internet "shopping" for your dog you don't even hear about some of the best people.
Bahlambs, Bugaboo and Seathwaite don't even have websites!!!! (Yes, we've been bugging all of those people to get their butts online!!!) I did some indepth pedigree research when searching for my first show dog and really wanted a Bahlamb dog. Being a child of technology and finding the OESCA completely unapproachable, I did my research online and could only find mentions of the Bahlambs line. I couldn't even find contact information for her!! What I did find was the Lambluv site and her foundation stock came from Bahlambs and she was easily accesible and so that's the route I went. Now Susanne from Bahlambs is one of my mentors and I hound her everday that she needs more technological advancement because people are missing out on getting good dogs from her and learning from her because she has no info out there!

Word of mouth is a great source of information. Ask around and do your research. Good people need to get their information out there because people will take the easy way out and in this fast paced world, the easy way out are pet stores and byb's that take Paypal!!!!

So for all the shoppers out there, DO NOT TAKE SLICK WEBSITES TO EQUAL GREAT PUPPIES!!!!

Anonymous wrote:

barney1 wrote:

IShe googled OES and she found Debric's site right away. .

I didn't say that she stopped at one place and settled and bought a dog.

I don't know what exact word combination she used when she googled it. Their dog died a week ago--she really hasn't done any research yet. She randomly googled some combination of the words old english sheepdog and maybe puppies or something like that. Just to see what happened. And she found that debric site. She would never just google, find the site and then send in a deposit.

My point was that she easily found this one website and from the surface, she got excited because of the fun puppycam features.

One of the things that experienced OES people tend to forget as time goes by is that what appears to be common sense is actually acquired only through learning and experience. We all start out with zero knowledge on how to properly purchase a puppy/dog that will have the best chance of being sound in both health and temperament. People have to be taught or educated on how to do this... it doesn't come naturally. If you don't know the problems common to a specific breed, you won't even get to the next step on how to prevent them.

Quote:

Good people need to get their information out there because people will take the easy way out and in this fast paced world, the easy way out are pet stores and byb's that take Paypal!!!!

I agree 100%. Reputable breeders, breeders who do it right, could be part of the answer to this problem. They can help to spread the word on how to purchase a quality puppy. They can share tests that were done, the results and explain why it's so important to have these tests done. Explain how often they should be breed and at what age... why it's wrong to breed more often or at a young age. Explain the reasons that lineage should be researched. Good breeders who take time to put up an informative website could help to educate a lot of ignorant people including me. This would give people the ability to compare and maybe ask more intelligent questions.

There are some people who purchase based only on a cheap price and you'll never be able to protect them. But others simply don't have access to information required to make a good decision.

Here's something to consider: there is a longstanding tradition among more reputable breeders to NOT advertise. A website presence was frowned upon (who do you find online? Puppy millers - was the thinking). You can see the attitude among OESCA breeders who DO have a presence - almost every site I've come across makes it very clear that they're not there to sell puppies online, thank you very much.

Nice links to rescue, hopefully health, perhaps a mention that they breed occasionally. But their websites are not a "for sale" sign - they're not trying to suck you in to get one of their puppies. You don't have puppy cams and prices. You have pedigrees (ever try to do pedigree research on some of these puppymill/BYB sites? No pedigrees, generally. Hm) Some show wins. They're proud of their dogs and their breeding programs. It's a passion, not a livelihood. They may mention that they're planning a litter at some point. But no implicit "hurry up and get'em before they're gone" approach. Ack!

You're all right, though: they don't make it easy. Why? Think about it...this is a committment for the life of the dog. You want one of their dogs, you'll find them and take the time so they can really get to know you and vice versa.

That said, I agree - I wish more of them had a web presence. But don't ever expect them to have puppy cams and all the cutesy stuff. They're too busy taking care of their dogs and maybe raising some puppies occasionally.

I know one WI breeder - and, no, I don't have her dogs - whom I generally refer people to locally when they're looking to find a breeder and I see their eyes glaze over when I tell them to contact the OESCA referral person, since she breeds more than most (no, she's not a puppy mill) and most of the local breeders I know breed very little. I never know if she'll necessarily have a litter, but it's a start. I saw her at the WI specialty this summer and she told me people had been nagging her to get a website (we're talking long time, very successful breeder in terms of the breed ring). She snorted and said she doesn't have time for that, doesn't have the technical know-how and, really, she plain doesn't want to do it. She's too busy raising and showing her dogs.

These breeders aren't breeding to sell puppies. They're breeding for themselves first and foremost...entirely different approach.

Still, I think I have the local (SEWI) club convinced we collectively need a website - for our rescue efforts, if nothing else. For club info. For breed info and links. I also keep telling them we should have a page where it says someone has a litter, that it's OK to acknowledge that you have a litter, and they kind of look at me like I'm a little nuts, but generally known to be harmless, so maybe they'll humor me. We'll see. :wink:

It goes against their grain is what I'm saying.

If there is that fear of people going to BYBs etc for their dogs, then there is sometimes also a corresponding fear among the more serious breeders when it comes to the general public. It may not be fair to the 99.99 % of you who represent homes that are to die for. But until they meet you and establish a relationship with you - some online credit card transaction is not going to cut it. These are their KIDS you're talking about. Would you ship one of your kids sight-unseen to someone to raise? Don't think so. Not without incredible recommendations from people they trust implicitly whose dogs you've had before or something like that.

So, no they don't make it easy.

On the flip side, once you're "in" (known to be a great home), you're in, and have to beat people who are trying to give you - yes, give you - their puppies off with the proverbial stick. But you may have to pay your dues first. These are living critters people put their heart and soul into. And they are responsible for their well-being for life.

Kristine

Very, very well said, Kristine....

I think part of the problem, though, is that people in this day and age expect to find everything they need on the Internet. So why would Joe Schmoe not think that all OES breeders aren't online. So Joe Schmoe goes online and see websites X, Y, Z and thinks that's what's out there.

I just wish there was a compromise where maybe more reputable breeders had informational websites, so people looking to find a good dog could have something to compare these other bad sites to. And have it easier to find the right people.

But I agree with what you said Kristine. It all makes sense and everything, it just can be frustrating to only have the bad breeders more visible for the uneducated prospective buyer to see.

sheepieshake wrote:

Very, very well said, Kristine....

Ditto that one.

I have been a showing, trialing, raising, training dog person my whole life, but I still had to run the gauntlet to get Chewie. (OK, maybe a shorter gauntlet, and it helped I had a BASSET that actually competed in Rally - outdoors and offlead... )

I didn't take offense to it, as that was the same way MY parents were with any prospective buyer of one of our puppies. Todd was a little bucky at 1st, until I told him relax, this is normal....... :lol:

Well said Kristine,

I will make sure to throw my two cents in on the website at the next meeting!

While I understand the thought process behind not wanting a web presence, times are a changing and technology is increasingly more important.

Think of how we function today versus 15 years ago. I can now be anywhere in the country and can talk to anyone at any time of the day because of cell phones. I also now have an expectation that when I want information I can find it within 5 minutes max, searching the web. Heck, I can do both with my phone!

With the next generation rolling in, while we want only those individuals who are truly interested in OES, we also want to make some information accessible for them so that they can make a more informed decision. Dealing with breed clubs sometimes can be very overwhelming for the average person. I can see why a cutesied up website would be more inviting.

When tastefully done, you can educate people about the breed and about who you are as a breeder but let them contact you for more information. I think it would make it a lot harder for the BYB etc. with a greater web presence from actual reputable breeders.

Being a newbie about all of this, when I decided to look into getting another OES, I did check out some websites.

I started by searching for the OES Club of America, and of course the first websites listed was for OES.ORG FORUM-which is great.--

I looked at the websites available form OES Club and saw what the preferred breeders sites looked like...how they listed all the health tests, the CH. and lines of all their dogs, many had their pet contracts available. I read about the PAST/PRESENT/FUTURE of their kennels and what their goals were.

By comparing these sites to the puppymill/BYB sites ---you could immediatly see which breeders were breeding for money and which really cared about the breed---I could tell from the way the website was presented. Although I must admit some of the BYB sites were slick and well put together on the surface....once I started READING WHAT they had to say was the[b] real key.[/b]
Anyone interested in getting any breed, must understand that this decision is for life ( of the dog)...

It is one of the most important decision that cannot be controlled by area, (whether the breeder is too far away, and if there is not a quality breeder in their area, they "settle") or price, (quality breeders are way too expensive--- is what I heard alot--but look how much love, thought, time and testing is done before and during the pregnancy), or looks (only want a blue eyed, white head..etc.)

It took from and end of May to July until I got my puppy. That is a very short wait...but I would have waited as long as I had to to ensure I received a exceptional pup from an exceptional breeder.

I may not have said all of this correctly, and if I made mistakes, I am sorry, but, having no experience and not much knowlege, I was listening to my heart.

...and Val's breeder sent me to the breeder I got my pup from...not knowing if she would have a litter at the time. I did all the same chasing Val did. I figured I was at a good starting place when I realized that I had actually seen Val's breeder's dog at Westminster the year I was there!!!

sheepieshake wrote:

I may not have said all of this correctly, and if I made mistakes, I am sorry, but, having no experience and not much knowlege, I was listening to my heart.

I dunno - seems to me like your brain was working just fine too :wink:

You caught all of the pertinent differences. But it is more work, going that route and, as Dawn references, more hoops to jump through.

Sometimes, listening to these discussions, it strikes me that we risk holding breeders to an incompatible standard:

"You must do all the research and health testing (true, and expensive - but worth it) - but your price is too high!

"You must be reponsible for every puppy for life (yes) - but don't ask me too many questions about how I intend to care for that puppy!"

"You must only breed for the betterment of the breed (yes) - but I want a whiteheaded, blue-eyed girl and I want her next week!"

OK, so that's a bit to the point :wink:

And I realize that for newbies, the first parts aren't always self-evident. Many (!!) of us learned their importance the hard way, and the reasoning behind those requirements should be made public and easily accessible. And they are, it seems, every day, on this forum.

Because you can have one, or the other. But you can't generally have it both ways. It is a choice. Just make sure you don't force people like Nita to clean up after you if you're not happy with your choice.

Oh, and Dawn, remind me to give you a copy of the glowing reference Simon, your rescue Basset, gave you. He's very eloquent when he wants to be. :wink:

Kristine

Hi all,
I find this thread interesting. I looked at the site and saw the puppy cam. My goodness. I have a website for my dogs. However, I DO NOT sell dogs from my website. Most of you that know me know, I do not sell dogs very often. Websites are a good thing, it's just the bad people who use them to peddle their wares. I think a breeder that takes paypal should be a huge red flag or credit cards. I take credit cards in my online businss, but I would NEVER take a credit card for a dog. OH MY GOODNESS. I cannot even imagine the mindset of anyone that would allow payment via a credit card. My advise to people looking for a dog is this. HOW many litters a year do they have? Anyone getting into the five or six litters are questionable in my mind. How can anyone keep track of all those dogs. How can a breeder that has that many litters take puppys back if they do not work out, which we all know happens. Even four litters at 8 puppies is 32 puppies. Sell 32 puppies at 1000.00 at least and it does not take a rocket scientist to figure this out. Then the next guy does the same. Breeder I admire are those that breed for themselves. I do a breeding when I am ready for a puppy or two for myself. If there are extra then the sleepless nights start. I also do not sell a dog to anyone I have not met. And yes I have a website. I put one up to learn how to do them and well lets say the rest is history. I have done the OESCA website until I became President of the OESCA. Deb Lengyl will be taking it over. the oesca has a breeder referral page. Breeders listed HAVE signed the clubs code of ethics. This is a good first step. I worry for our breed. People like this lady have figured it out. There are more, trust me. I had to shut down my entire website because a puppymill had a link to my website. I asked them to remove it and they added to it with my name. I had to contact a lawyer and shut down dog site period.

As for people taking deposits and not refunding I'm very interested in this. This is very worriesome to me. it gives the good people a bad name and encourages people to purchase puppies from anyone. How sad for our breed.

Barb Lamb
Shaggylamb Old English Sheepdogs

Thank you for all of the comments. I too was taken in by Debbie. I had just lost my female OES and was caught up with the grief. I went on line and saw her website. I have had to call Debbie about a couple of issues with my dog. Her feet were toeing out and she said that her "other dogs didn't have that problem and that I must be doing something wrong." I spoke with my vet who confirmed that what Debbie had told me was not correct. My dog is also very hyper and I've been told by my groomer and vet that she is the most hyper OES that they have ever seen. I have had OES for over 12 years and I agree with them. I have taken her to obedience school to help the situation. A month ago I had major emergency surgery and have not been able to spend much quality time with her because of her hyper ways. It has become very disturbing and frustrating. I had thought a couple of years ago of letting her go but, I am hoping that she will calm down as she gets older. She is now 4 years old. Has anyone else out there who bought from Debric's had similar problems? After getting my dogs papers did I realize that her mother was not even a year old when she had this litter. That really bothered me. I would like to be kept posted about the outcome of this puppy mill situation. I live in Maine and spent a lot of money for a dog that I thought would have good breeding. I was very upset and angry to see this sight.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this. I hope something comes out of this. Again please keep us posted when news comes out. Thank you.
An angry buyer from Maine

Please look around and get a OES from a sound breeder that cares for the dogs not the money.

I have a now 7 yr old sheepie from debbie, she is fine but is so hyper, i cannot hold her.Had prof training which helped. I still love her but glad to read all the minuses on her. Anyone go to neoersr.org, it is a sheepie rescue and very good.
Joan

this thread has made me very wary. i am collecting my oes from a rescue centre this weekend. i believe he may be from a puppy farm but have not had that confirmed yet. he is deaf, so maybe he was just an unwanted from another source.

someone has to take care of these little ones, have i made an error? he is just so cute and the rescue centre is a good one. what should i be looking for in the first few days?

Nothing wrong with taking in a deaf dog. There are many owners on this forum who have deaf dogs. I would suggest you repost this where they can all see you.

I hope this isn't too late to post.
The first dog my parents had (even before I was born) was an OES and Collie mix. After that, my family fell in love with the OES breed and we have had one ever since. Naturally I bought an OES puppy when I married and had a home of my own. Fortunately there was a breeder in town (Iowa) and I met the biological parents of my fur baby...Madison. I LOVE THIS DOG!!! Living in Mississippi with Madison being 10 years old, I was desperate to find a puppy to bring home and keep Madison moving (she was the canine honoree for the Arthritis Foundation in our area). I couldn't find a breeder and unfortunately was dazzled by the Debric / MyOES. com site. I paid extra to have the puppy driven to me because I was afraid to have it fly. Scarlett, the puppy, looked horrible - she was covered in oil and grease, was terrified, smelled, had a urine-stained toy and blanket that I immediately threw away. I was told that it was because she rolled around under the car when they stopped to stretch their legs and didn't have time to clean her up. Sounds reasonable but that's when it finally sunk in for me that I was not dealing with the loving professionals I thought I'd miraculously found. My desperation had caused a serious lack of judgement. Anyway, Madison was able to spend 3 more years with us and the vet attributes that to the addition of Scarlett. Scarlett is very petite compared to all of the other OES Loves in my life. She also has had to have adjustments to her behavior; she was not only unusually hyper but was even aggressive. That boggled my mind because I have NEVER seen an OES that behaved like that. Needless to say, I've had to spend a lot of time with her but she's settled into an acceptable behavior and part of our family. To sum it up, Madison thought she was human and acted that way... Scarlett knows she's a dog and likes it that way. I stumbled on this thread because I missed my Madison and was looking for a way to give her tribute (like sponsoring an OES rescue). I have tried to get in touch with DebRic and their sites are closed (which is probably a good thing). But, I now have concerns for my little Scarlett and her health. The vet hasn't caught anything that would raise a concern so hopefully I won't experience what the others have complained about with their DebRic OES puppies.

From the fact that their Web site is no longer active I can only hope that the many posts on this Forum warning potential buyers had something to do with that. They did have an impressive site but as you can see from the many comments on this Forum they were nothing more than a third rate Puppy Mill. Bravo to OES.ORG!

Quote:

From the fact that their Web site is no longer active I can only hope that the many posts on this Forum warning potential buyers had something to do with that.

Back in May of last year, Southeast assisted at least 5 of the DebRic dogs.
Were Foxie & Gracie two of them?? http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displa ... d=13959465

So hopefully all of them ended up in great homes.

That Web site was such a piece of crap, I can't believe anyone thought it looked professional. I assume most people were just taken with the pictures, because as a whole, that site was a travesty of "don'ts" in textbook Web design.

ButtersStotch wrote:

Interesting observation, but isn't the test of any advertising medium how many people it attracts?

kerry wrote:

ButtersStotch wrote:

Interesting observation, but isn't the test of any advertising medium how many people it attracts?

I'm not basing it on an advertising medium, I'm basing on her crimes against web and message design. Not to mention, the attraction to web sites can, many times, be explained by the order of ranking in how things comes up in search engines. Sometimes the ranking is based on how many links you have to your page in other places, which only means that you could be industrious in getting your own link out there. Then you're the first link to come up in a list and lazy and non-internet savvy people use your link first.

Quote:

I'm basing on her crimes against web and message design.

Exactly.

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