Learning words..........
 is 2 days away from her 5 month birthday(  ) ......I can't believe how the time has passed so quickly.
We still have some basic issues such as (sometimes) pottying in her crate at night and being mean to Cosmo but I think we are progressing. Her vocabulary is expanding each day!!!! Today, she learned a new word.............TUFFET!!! We have a tuffet in front of the fireplace where the Pearl and Cosmo go to "settle" or gnaw on bones, get warm in the winter, lay when we have company---it's kind of like "home base" for them. Heart was chewing a bone on the hard wood floor and making alot of noise...I told her, "Heart, TUFFET!!" (which I have said about 3500 times since she arrived) and to my surprise and amazement, she picked up the bone, ran to the tuffet and layed down......... 
(just a little mommie brag) |
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| How cute! I just love when they have a good vocabulary. |
Very good. 
Heart has Tuffet, our dogs have "porch-it". It means go out to the porch - where there is a gate to close from the rest of the house. Very handle with muddy feet or a need to have them all go one place quickly. |
Quote: our dogs have "porch-it".
(wish we had a porch....................) |
Good job Little Miss Muffet! 
I was amazed at how quick my dogs were to learn the brand new word (for them) "Studio!" after we built my new art studio last spring. They know the difference between "Car" for a ride, and "Walk" as opposed to "studio" if we are going to work when I let them out the gate. |
| WTG Heart!! Smart AND Beautiful!! |
| I have always wondered about communication between dog and humans.
Some people think that many of us...(ME)...humanize dogs reactions, looks, moods and that is wrong to do cuz they are, after all, dogs........... Some people think that dogs react to the 'tone' of the voice, not the word itself. I know I can say....go to bed..........in the same tone as go potty and depending on what I say the dogs will to into the bedroom on the word bed...........and out the door on the word potty. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....does anybody else have thoughts or theories on this???? DO OUR DOGS UNDERSTAND LANGUAGE........OR IS IT JUST THE TONE??????????????? (Pearl is close to 10 years old and has an understanding of maybe 150-200 words although I have never counted them........and is "understanding" new ones everyday.) |
| Heart, you are such a cutie pie!
With our first sheepie, Quincy, he understood so many words that we were convinced he was verbal. He loved ice cream more than anything, and would literally salivate and run to the freezer if you mentioned it....ever. So we started to spell it. Guess what? He learned what that meant too!  So we started saying frozen dairy treat........
Being deaf, Oscar obviously doesn't respond to tone at all, but he certainly can read facial expressions, in addition to his signs. Boy, does he know when I am irritated!!!!! Oscar knows as many words as Quincy did, just in the form of sign language. Laurie and Oscar |
| I think dogs can learn words, that is to say, when I hear someone say "sit" or "off", they want me to act in this way or stop doing what ever I am doing. In the same way I think they can learn tone and body action. In other words they can tell when we are mad and when we are pleased.
I had a dog that no matter how you said the word "bath" she would take off running. You could also tell her anything in a bad tone, including "good dog", and you would think she had done something unforgivable. |
Quote: With our first sheepie, Quincy, he understood so many words that we were convinced he was verbal. He loved ice cream more than anything, and would literally salivate and run to the freezer if you mentioned it....ever. So we started to spell it. Guess what? He learned what that meant too! So we started saying frozen dairy treat........
Being deaf, Oscar obviously doesn't respond to tone at all, but he certainly can read facial expressions, in addition to his signs. Boy, does he know when I am irritated!!!!! Oscar knows as many words as Quincy did, just in the form of sign language. Laurie and Oscar SPELLING words???? I have to try that one!!!!
Laurie...I was in a training class with a deaf boxer a couple of years ago and WOW!! That boxes NEVER took his eyes off his owner. Talk about focused!!! I am sure it was very difficult learning to train Oscar. BUT I am sure it is so rewarding and what a special bond you two must have. |
Wow, good job Heart! 
Val, dogs learn by association so we can say that they understand "English" but mostly they are reading your body language and energy. Say nothing but start jumping around as if you were the happiest person in the world. Your dogs are going to be so excited and you didn't have to say anything. You pick up their leashes and they know you are going for a walk. Sometimes you don't need to talk to them, they still know what you are telling them. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Having said this, I talk to my boys in Hungarian. Charlie talks to them in English. So, they understand "Ül" and "Sit" "Fekszik" and "Down". I say "Éhes vagy?" And they know it's dinner time. If Charlie says "Are you hungry?" They know it's dinner time. "Menjünk sétálni" means let's go for a walk. They know the word "Walk" too but we had to only say "W" so they wouldn't know what we were talking about. They learnt that as well, so now its "the boys need to have some fresh air."
So, they understand what you are saying because they associate the leash or the word "walk" with walk, sniffing; their bowl/"Dinner time" with food, etc. They are so smart! |
| Kata:
BUT............that is my real question........if I am in the kitchen.....with my back to ---Pearl------no body language, no emotion.....I can say go outside...and she will...or go to the bedroom.......and she will.......I have tested this, said both in a deadpan voice, ... Is she understanding the word??? or just the first O or B??? Do we really know???????????? (I hoped you would reply to this.........) |
| I think they know the word, my dogs (one OES and 2 mutts) know when I say walk vs water. Although most trainers want the words to not sound alike or have the same word in it.... (ie sit down, and lay down)
I think words that sound alike just make them harder to learn because of what they may have previously associated with part of the word. |
Let's face the facts! OES are just the perfect dogs. They are known to understand English, French, Hungarian and I am sure many other languages. They understand words and/or spelling. They understand when we talk to them or with our backs turned toward them.....and they don't even care about the science behind it. Even ccasionally, our mutts catch on!  Love those sheepies!  |
| Val, years ago I mentioned to my husband--in front of Sadie, the smartest dog in the whole world--that I had found a glossy print of the picture of Lucy, Ricky, Fred, and Ethel--"you know, the one in the car?" And I went on for another sentence or two before I realized that Sadie had jumped up and run to the door. She was waiting to go "in the car." |
Way to go Heart!  |
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Our sheepies......................the smartest, prettiest, kindest dogs of all the breeds......................... |
| Val, try to remember the first dog you have ever owned and the very first time you told your dog "Walk". Do you remember her reaction? What I'm trying to say is, that Lumpi learnt that "Walk" means we are going for a walk/outside/sniffing/fun, etc. I didn't have to teach Boni this because he is learning from Lumpi. But Lumpi had to associate the word "Walk" with the fact that the next steps are going to be putting shoes on, getting the leash and then going outside. So, they do understand the words but not in the same way as we do. Hm...it's so hard to explain....do you speak another language? It's like that! Learning to speak Hungarian for example!
If I told you "Val, gyere ide" you have no idea what I want you to do. So, I show you a $100 bill, wave it to you or lure you with it to me and when you get to me, I give it to you. Next time I say "Val, gyere ide" and I show you the $100 bill, you come to me and then I give you the $100. The third time I say "Val, gyere ide", you will come to me and wait for you $100! So, now you know what "Gyere ide" means in Hungarian. 
And you learnt it by association. I also have to say, that it is important how you say things, like Lumpi (Loompy) will listen to you if you say Lumpy, Puppy, Spooky, etc. even if you say it with a deep, high, angry, happy voice or you turn your back to them. About understanding the first word...this is pretty hard to explain...when I ask the boys if they are hungry in Hungarian I say "Éhes vagy?" The letter "é" is kind of pronounced like....ah! Eva Gabor - she is Hungarian too. So, when I say "éééé" they look at me and start licking their lips and in their little head they are probably thinking "okay, she is going to say éhes vagy, which means we are getting food". If I say another word in Hungarian that sounds like éhes, such as éber, édes, etc. I will get the same reaction. I can sing that to them, I can say it angry, etc. same reaction. I even tried to just move my lips so it looked as if they could read my lips.
So, did I answer your question?
Ps: Now when I tell them we are going for a walk, Lumpi runs and gets my shoes. Also, when he needs to go outside, he brings my shoes to me |
| Totally!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I DO understand.............a different language......like the language THEY speak...........bark, bark and looking at the door means they have to go out........whining by the water bowl.............MOM!!! FILL IT!!! AGAIN.........
THanks, KATA.......I love the bringin you your shoes... Millie, my Beardie use to get her leash and hold it in her mouth..........when SHE wanted to go........BOY!! she had me trained perfectly.... |
| Great explanation. |
| I guess I'm confused. This is the same way children learn language. It is the word, tone of voice, situation and visual clues that determine what the word or phrase means.
There is also behavior component to learning language. If you respond correctly, you get rewarded. An incorrect response or lack of reward teaches that the intrepretation was not correct and will eventually extinguish that response or expectation. So take the example word "walk." If this is a word they associate with going outside, but suddenly you say in the same tone of voice, same expression, but no longer take them outside, they will eventually learn that it no longer means going outside. For the most part, our furkids are like toddlers in their understanding of language. And I find that amazing. |
| Yeah!!!! Val, I'm glad I could explain it and you even understand it!
Mom of 3 wrote: So take the example word "walk." If this is a word they associate with going outside, but suddenly you say in the same tone of voice, same expression, but no longer take them outside, they will eventually learn that it no longer means going outside.
Desensitization. That's right, this is how I would teach a dog not to jump or get too excited when the owner takes out the leash. If you take the leash out 20 times/day and you don't take the dog for a walk, they learn that the leash doesn't always mean walk. Same thing with barking at the doorbell.
I can't wait to see my kids learn to speak as I'm going to talk to them in Hungarian and Charlie only English. My cousin's first language is French, married to a Hungarian girl and now they live in Montreal. He speaks to the kids in French, mother in Hungarian and they are going to English speaking nursery school. There is one kid in the nursery, who only speaks French. So, the oldest son, Adam talks to his father and his mother in Hungarian, not French even though the father only talks to him in French. He would not say anything in French to anybody. One day, he started to talk to this little boy in class in French. Then it turned out that Adam realized (at age 4!) that his dad could understand Hungarian but this little kid only understood French. How cool is that?
Therefore, when you talk to kids in two or more different languages before they can speak, they don't actually learn languages, they are just learning to speak, to communicate with us. |
| Hah! MY dogs can spell! Way back, when we were trying to be clever, we would spell certain words to try to communicate without alerting kids and then dogs. My dogs know that O U T means out and that's where they're going! I tried tricking them by merely saying O or U or T or O U or U T, but no, only if it's OUT do they leap up and dash for the door!
They are very cued into our household routine and know that if certain things happen (ie, the drawer where the mm, poop bags are kept is opened, it means walk. They understand car and whether it is my car or my husband's van we are speaking about depending on who says we're going car. That surprised me, really |
| Ben has the largest vocabulary of our furries. Not only does he "show me" what he wants, he will respond appropriately to "show daddy." They all will wait patiently for their cookie (no lunging) if I say "first Ben" or whomever.
The funniest thing is when Ben is outside to potty. On pretty days, he likes to linger (not good for a dog with grass allergies). When he fails to come back inside quickly, I do the typical count "one.... two....." He just looks at me when I say one, but at two he barrels into the house. Thank heavens he hasn't made me get to three. And my kids are old enough that I can't figure out how he learned this. Current theories on learning language in a mutli-language enviroment, whether school or home, expect that the first three years of multiple language usage will often find the speaker substituting one word in language A for the word in language B. They attribute it to the fact that the vocabulary the speaker learns in each language is smaller than if the speaker heard only one language. (Does that make sense?) After a couple of years, the vocabulary in each languge is back up to where the average native speaker would be. I wish I could have taught my children a different language. |
| I love the one....two...three........... And I am going to start spelling words to see if they catch on........very interesting.... |
Mom of 3 wrote: Current theories on learning language in a mutli-language enviroment, whether school or home, expect that the first three years of multiple language usage will often find the speaker substituting one word in language A for the word in language B. They attribute it to the fact that the vocabulary the speaker learns in each language is smaller than if the speaker heard only one language. (Does that make sense?) After a couple of years, the vocabulary in each languge is back up to where the average native speaker would be.
I wish I could have taught my children a different language. Wow, I have to tell you I had to ask my husband to explain this to me - he's learnt to use easier words for me...  - but at the end I did understand what you were saying and I totally agree with you!
Okay, I have a very international family and I have another cousin who is 15 now. He was born in Hungary, his parents are Hungarians so they talk to him in Hungarian. When he was 1 and half, they moved to Prague for a year and a half, then they moved to Athens for 8 years. In Athens he went to a German nursery. He only started to talk when he was about three and a half and in Check!!! Nobody understood him.
When he was about 5, he tried to tell me something so he started his sentence in Hungarian, put some German words in it, followed them in Greek - his friends were Greek -, he also put some Check and English - he picked up English by watching Cartoon Network - in it. And when I said I don't understand what he is saying, he got mad at me. That's when I realized that he doesn't know that he is trying to tell me something in 5 languages! Funniest thing is that when he and his older sister don't want their parents to understand what they are saying, they switch to Greek as nobody else speaks Greek in our family.
Ps: Sorry for my long post...again
Oh, and I too love that you count up to 2 and he runs inside the house! |
| I find that I treat Max more like a toddler than a dog because he does understand so much of what we say. I think OES are too smart for their own good, and I also think that they can be very misunderstood by those who've never gotten to know an OES. He understands so many words and phrases, and I'm teaching him to talk to me, so far he says mama, any other ideas of words OES can learn?
sharon and max |
| Sorry for all of the "official" sounding language. It's been a long week at school with several Special Education training sessions, some ARD meetings and studying the district staff manuals in preparation for:
more district standardized testing (I have to be trained in case I go in the testing sites) ARDs for some of our autistic students security audit bus/evacuation drill and I still need to write my goals for the year. <sigh> It's easy to get in the habit of "official speak." |
| Oh, don't worry! My husband is well trained!
Maybe one of your goals should be "learning Hungarian one day....  " |
Prof. Boni wrote: Maybe one of your goals should be "learning Hungarian one day....
" No, no! I need something that is actually possible for me to do. I tried to learn to speak French from elementary to college (I even tested out of 10 hours of college French). My accent is a joke. Fortunately, I can read it better than I can speak it. And the free translations websites are wonderful. Now, with all of the Spanish spoken around me, I am just as likely to speak Frennish or Spannch! And no hope for doing better after the three years either. |
| I never thought Hungarian was hard until Charlie started to learn it. He made me realize how difficult my language was!
We also say that our dogs (and even us) "speak" Hunglish. |
| Mixed accents, I put my Greek teacher on the floor one day when I read a passage in ItaliGreek.........Greek with perfect Italian accent. But then in highschool I was talking Spanish and German together. When I got to school in Spain they were convinced I was German.
I mimic accents easily, too bad I can't remember the foreign language to go with it. Anybody remember Cid Ceasar's ability to mimic a language in doubletalk? Oh to be able to doubletalk!! And as far as spelling ice cream........those were the first words I learned to spell as a child. So a dog learning doesn't surprise me |
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