Which collar?
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| You can use a martingale style collar. It tightens to a point and won't get any tighter. It's also a more gentle correction. It really makes it so that you get the gentle squeeze rather than that sharp, hard yank. |
| Use the Halti or head collar. If you don't use the choke collar properly, you can damage your dog's neck and your vet should know that. Also, if you give a correction with a choke collar at the wrong time, you can make your dog become dog aggressive. Be very careful when you give him correction!
When you use the Halti or head collar, every time he pulls you his head automatically turns to the side. You don't use any force - it's like when you are riding a horse. When you turn his head to the right, the horse turns right too. 
The Halti comes with a DVD that tells you how to use it.  |
| I also have the Halti collar and it works wonders! |
| I love the halti collar for London. If I use a regular collar she pulls like crazy. |
| Will try the haltie collar. Can I get that at Petco or other pet shop? What about the Gentle Leader? |
| I use a gentle Leader on Dutch and it is great |
| Where are you placing the collar? Silly question? No, not really. It must go HIGH on the neck, just behind the ears.........not down lower. Lower down they do not get the full effect and can muscle through the choking and become aggressive. The pinch or prong collar is the same deal...up high on the neck, not lower. Lower collar is for their jewelry (dog tags) not for leashes!! |
| The Gentle Leader and Halti are two brand names of head collars. I haven't used either one, so I can't tell you the difference, but I'm sure someone else will. We tried one of them on Barkley, with no success. As soon as the collar was on, he pawed at it for a few minutes, then proceeded to lay down and wouldn't move (not even for treats, toys, people, other dogs). Basically, he sulked until we took it off. Put his regular collar back on, and he was back to normal. That'll teach me to forget his prong collar at home.
Choosing a collar has a lot to do with the end result you want. A head collar will let you control your dog, but doesn't really teach them to walk nicely. The head collar re-directs the dog when they try to pull, while a martingale (limited choke) or prong collar gives a correction when they pull. Use the least collar that gives you control. I use three different collars with Barkley depending on the situation. Most of the time I can use a regular flat collar, but 8-10 months ago he was wearing his prong collar for most walks. As SheepieBoss said, try to keep the collar high on the neck (easier said than done with a dog who wants to pull), regardless of whether it's a prong, martingale or flat buckle collar. I've found the easiest way to do this is to start with it where you want it, and keep a little bit of upward pressure on the leash. If you let up entirely, you'll probably have a dog who shakes pretty good and gets the collar to settle much lower and makes it far less effective. |
| I have tried the Halti and while it was better than the normal cloth collar it was not as good at correcting bad behavior. Bella also figured out how to get her head in position to pull just as hard as she did before. We have gone back to the prong collar and fitted properly I think I get easier and better results. It is also the collar that our trainer recommended. Yes, it does slip down on to her chest after while. Stop and re-adjust the collar. I've put the collar around my leg and jerked on it, it is not painful. You only use it to get the dogs attention and pay attention to you it is not used as a torture device. |
Murphy's Mom wrote: Will try the haltie collar. Can I get that at Petco or other pet shop? What about the Gentle Leader? Yes, you can buy them there but please do make sure to watch the video that comes with it and read the instructions otherwise you will have the same experience as the rest of the people who said it didn't work for them! The Halti or the Gentle Leader or actually any other collar that you want to use to correct your dog will not do it's job if you, the owner is not doing it properly! Same thing goes with the dog whistle. You have to train your dog to come when he hears the whistle, it's not a magical whistle that "barks" so they will understand what you want them to do. The difference between the Halti and the Gentle Leader is that the Halti is loose on the dogs nose but gets tight when he pulls, which is uncomfortable for them. The Gentle Leader sits tightly on the dogs nose and for this reason most trainers prefer to use the Halti because we don't want the dog to think he is being corrected all the time. They both have to sit high on the neck, right behind their ears just as SheepieBoss said. The dog will try to paw it off and do the "dead fish" thing, or freeze, and fight against it if you don't follow the instructions so you are not teaching your dog that it is fine to have it on. This though teaches your dog how to train and manipulate you, the owner. Craig Duffield wrote: A head collar will let you control your dog, but doesn't really teach them to walk nicely. The head collar re-directs the dog when they try to pull, while a martingale (limited choke) or prong collar gives a correction when they pull. The point of this collar is to teach them to walk nicely. If you don't know how to use it than don't use it. And as I said before you should read the instructions and watch the video that comes with it, which shows you step-by-step how to put the halti on the dog and how to teach them walk nicely on the leash. You put a leash on their flat collar and another one on the Halti. When they pull, you pull the leash on the flat collar very gently, then pull the leash with the Halti to turn their head to you. As soon as they do that, you praise them. So the dog learns when they feel the little tug on the flat collar, their head is going to turn. Dogs learn by association!!! When you are 90% confident with your dog, you can lose the Halti. If you are consistent it shouldn't take you more then a week or two. Oh and your dog is going to be as consistent as you are! The prong collar doesn't give correction to the dog when they pull. It's you, the owner who gives the correction! If you don't use it properly you can damage your dogs neck and if you don't correct the dog properly at the right moment, you can make your dog become aggressive. Bella's Dad wrote: I've put the collar around my leg and jerked on it, it is not painful. Put it on your neck and then ask someone else to jerk on it. It will feel different! 
Jerking shouldn't be painful to the dog, you are right about that but it seems to me that most people don't understand how and when to do this on their dogs. If you don't do it right, unfortunately it can hurt your dog. |
Prof.Boni wrote: The Halti or the Gentle Leader or actually any other collar that you want to use to correct your dog will not do it's job if you, the owner is not doing it properly! We're in total agreement! All product comparisons aside, user error is the single greatest reason for failure. Prof.Boni wrote: The dog will try to paw it off and do the "dead fish" thing, or freeze, and fight against it if you don't follow the instructions so you are not teaching your dog that it is fine to have it on. We followed the directions on the package, and were trying the collar with the assistance of a trainer who has used head halters with great success on other breeds. We made use of treats as an introduction and took it slowly. He accepted it (wore it, stopped pawing), but became despondent and unresponsive. After quite some time of this, we decided that the head collar wasn't going to work with him. It was a reminder that the prong collar was working for us, and that we should make sure not to forget it in the future. Prof. Boni wrote: The prong collar doesn't give correction to the dog when they pull. It's you, the owner who gives the correction! If you mean that by holding the leash I am giving a correction, then I agree. However, if you mean that I'm giving a correction, similar to "snapping" a choke collar, then I'm confused. I don't need to pull on the leash to give a correction when he pulls - as he pulls the prongs dig in a little, and he stops. All I have to do is hold onto the leash. When he's walking properly with me, there's no difference to him between the flat collar and the prong collar - it's only when he decides to pull. I'm not convinced that a prong collar would do any/much more damage to the dog's neck than a flat collar. I use them in basically the same way - the only difference is the sensation on the dog's neck. In fact, with my dog, the prong collar might be the safer of the two as he's less prone to pulling when he wears it. Prof. Boni wrote: If you don't use it properly you can damage your dogs neck and if you don't correct the dog properly at the right moment, you can make your dog become aggressive. I think that any correction given at the wrong time, for the wrong reason, or with the wrong severity can cause an unwanted response in the dog (be it fear, aggression, flight or some other response), but to say that a wrong correction with one collar is worse than a wrong correction with another is shortsighted. It's possible that a correction with a prong collar could damage the dog's neck, but it's also possible that a correction with a head halter could do the same - especially if the dog were to run to the end of the leash and receive a whip-lash-like correction simply because you're holding onto the end of the leash. No collar/leash combination is perfect for all dogs/situations. I've worn the prong collar around my neck, which, admittedly is far less tough than a dog's neck and has no hair. When someone else helds the leash and I pulled against it, it didn't feel pleasant. However, it wasn't terribly painful. If someone were to yank on the leash it would hurt, but the same goes for a flat collar. Prof.Boni wrote: it seems to me that most people don't understand how and when to do this on their dogs
You're referring to corrections with a prong collar, but the same applies to head collars. Many of the people who use them do not use them correctly, and use them as a control mechanism, not a training tool. I have little experience with other breeds, but found that for OES in general, a prong collar is a more effective training tool than the head halter. |
| Lots of great advice here, The trainer prefers the martindale - which we have. also want to check with the breeder. maybe i am placing it in the wrong position. i still would like to try the halti - yes will watch the video and read the instructions. will also speak with the trainer. as i said, the vet prefers the choker or the prong. as a first time sheepie owner i am trying to do everything right. i really want him under control when walking - when he reaches his full size I don't want to be pulled or knocked down. I have always had Shih Tzus so the leash training was totally different. |
| Craig, I'm glad you understand what I was trying to say. I totally agree with you on that a huge number of people are unable to use the Halti or the Gentle leader (or prong collar, etc.) the correct way and can do the same harm in both ways - jerking then damaging neck, making dog aggressive, etc.
Craig Duffield wrote: Prof. Boni wrote: The prong collar doesn't give correction to the dog when they pull. It's you, the owner who gives the correction! If you mean that by holding the leash I am giving a correction, then I agree. Yes, that is what I mean. Quote: No collar/leash combination is perfect for all dogs/situations. This is very true, I agree! Murphy's Mom wrote: The trainer prefers the martindale - which we have.
If you have a trainer then she should be able to help you with everything! I know what you mean about not being pulled or knocked down. My puppy is 9 months old and 67 Lbs and I also have a 90 Lbs lab/grey hound mix. So, when I walk them I have to be in control and I can't let them know that they are sooooooooo much stronger then me. I don't want to think of it what would happen otherwise.  |
| Karen and I tend to like different collars with Ralph. Karen likes the Gentle Leader/Halti because he doesn't pull her with it. I'm starting to use it and like it ok. I prefer the choke chain as I seem to be getting better response with it - but it is probably learning to use the Gentle Leader better.
Ralph can really take off if he sees a squirrel ("sqs" in human language ) so I feel I can hold him back a bit better with the choke collar.
Try several - that's what we've had to do. |
| Thanks all. The breeder has recommended the Ceasar Milan's Illussion collar. anyone tried it? |
I'm glad that Willoughby isn't the only one who want to chase SQ's (exactly what I've called them!) I use a harness and his flat collar.  When we get into SQ territory I attach another shorter lead to the flat collar and it works. I get him to sit when he can focus on me and that helps calm him down. It will try the Halti as this may be better. will let you know.  |
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