when can you run in your back yard with your OES?
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plymouthflock wrote: We have two little sheepdog girls who are sweet and loving until you run near them...then they go into puppy attack mode. I know you're not supposed to do this, but sometimes I forget and my kids forget, and then we end up paying for it nearly with our life...O.k., well that was a slight exageration. But they do start to bark and nip and go crazy. I understand with the herding instincts kicking in, it isn't quite their fault, but when can we expect them to learn that we are not sheep and our running is o.k.?
You can't expect them to go against their instincts without training. I suggest you seek help from a professional trainer immediately. OES don't usually calm down before they're two years old... some never do. |
| This is yet another draw back of two puppies at once. Because there are two you are going to have a much more difficult time breaking "pack" behavior. |
hmmmm, in my experience....never. 
Our almost 11 year old and our 5 year old still herd the kids. Actually, we purposefully "run" Lacy everyday - she gets antsy and obviously needs to get out so the kids run and she chases and herds. For us it's playtime and exercise for everybody. You'll need the assistance of a trainer and for now, if the kids are going to be running, the dogs probably need to be put inside. |
| I think puppy class would help a lot. The structure helps in a lot more ways than just sitting and heeling. They're about the age where they're perfect to start and most classes have puppy socialization time so it's a win win situation. |
| Puppy class first.
After they learn some manners and the difference between people and other dogs at class, you can teach my FAVORITE trick - toys. Our Bingley isn't allowed to 'play' with us unless he has a toy in his mouth. For instance, my husband loves to rough-house with him. Instead of compromising this fun time for the both of them we taught Bingley that in order to play this way he needed to "get his toy". He learned in about 3 seconds (ok a little longer) that if he wanted to play with us we would ignore him until he "got his toy". As soon as he picked his toy up we began to play. Bingley is now 16 months old and I was just outside running around with him last night. The minute I make a running motion or my husband begins to innitiate play, Bingley knows to grab a toy in his mouth. This keeps his nipping instinct intact - he grabs the toy - and our play sessions more structured. I would firmly recommend teaching this - they catch on really fast. Make sure it is after puppy class, or else they will still miss the fundamental concept of "human isn't dog". Good luck! |
we have to do our own puppy training nothing around here at all. 5 hours away. But it is possible the toy in the mouth does work wonderful thats what we do, except you have to put shoes up  fair game in the house. And we learn real fast also. 2 pups at the same time may take longer they eeg each other on. I find that will my year old and the baby. But Blue has learnt the sit and come real fast without really trying we just say to to the others and he followed he is usually the first to sit and go out. But he is our little piggy and he wants his treats FIRST. Nippy we won that battle but BLue has soft feelings it does not take much. Sami now more work. She does what I want but more work with the others. I have to back off and let the others give more commads she is learning. |
Quote: I understand with the herding instincts kicking in, it isn't quite their fault, but when can we expect them to learn that we are not sheep and our running is o.k.?
So you're pups are now what... around 12 weeks old? Have they learned some basic commands like sit, down, a very brief stay, around/sit? Don't let this wonderful training time pass you by. It is extremely fun and gratifying to see what they can learn at this age and how it sticks if you work at it. When they're out of control, separate them. Take only one of them outside on a leash and work with them. You cannot expect the two of them to learn much of anything when they're together. They're playing off each others actions and natural naughtiness. Speaking from experience with two littermates. 
I agree... if you've never trained puppies before, get a professional trainer involved because this is a very important time and you have more of a challenge with two. These two little sheepie-girls need your work and guidance to become the type of companions you hope for. Think of it this way... if you're having some minor problems now and don't get them corrected, consider what these same problems will be like when your two girls have got an additional 40-50 or more pounds on them. What's cute and funny as a puppy can be obnoxious or dangerous in an 65+ pound dog. You need guidance from a paid professional in order to do this right. |
| We just have one puppy, same age as Plymouth's, and we seem to have the same issues.
We try to run around with her, but she gets too close and tries to run under your feet! We have to stop or else we'll both trip! 
And of course, once you stop, the puppy tries to eat you.  I have holes in 2 pairs of pants, 1 shirt, and scratches on my arms/legs now.  We have a million toys for her so we always have one to put in her mouth, but what do you do when they spit it out and go back for your pants/legs? I've read to stand up, turn your back, and ignore her. However, she's sees that as an opportunity to get a mouthful of calf.
We plan to go to puppy training school...but will that help with the nipping?? And by "herding instincts," does that mean you can't run around with them or have them chase you, because they'll run under your feet? |
1st Time OES Mommy wrote: We plan to go to puppy training school...but will that help with the nipping?? And by "herding instincts," does that mean you can't run around with them or have them chase you, because they'll run under your feet?
Yes, a good trainer can help you with the nipping but at that age you just can still expect to ruin a few sets of clothing. I look back at torn pant legs and shirt tails with fond memories of when Nelson was little. 
As our dogs have gotten older they make wider circles when they "herd" us. Rarely does Nelson get under our feet but he has been known to jump up and dislocate shoulders. 
I can't emphasize the need for patience with dogs of any age. Puppies are a handful and become very frustrating at times. Their size and exuberance are endearing to those of us familiar with the breed but also the #1 reason dogs are surrendered to rescue by those new to their antics. |
Maggie McGee IV wrote: I can't emphasize the need for patience with dogs of any age. Puppies are a handful and become very frustrating at times. Their size and exuberance are endearing to those of us familiar with the breed but also the #1 reason dogs are surrendered to rescue by those new to their antics.
I agree. We certainly love our Nanny, but she can definitely be frustrating. We would never get rid of her, but I can see how some people could get a puppy cuz it's cute, but then have a very rude awakening when they take him home.  Hopefully most new puppy owners do enough research to realize that the beginning will have some struggles. We definitely expected to have some hurdles in the beginning.
LOL - Reminds me of when Sydney (our cat) was a baby... Jason thought it was funny to tell people to keep me away from scissors because of all of the scratches on my arms.  Jerk! I always had to apologize for his dumb sense of humor and tell them I had a kitten. And then the day we left to go to Houston for our wedding, Sydney had some kind of freak poo accident. He had loose stools stuck to him somehow and slung it all over the walls! That was fun to clean. lol
Any baby, any species, is going to be a handful at first! |
| when i got derby now 1 1/2 he was a handful i had frogotten how much work a pup is since my other 2 are old gals but to this day if i run the old girl daytona still trys to trip me.. so listen to what everyone is saying now is the time to train them .. oh good idea about having a toy in the mouth trick |
| I play with Obe and I chase him, he chases me. I do make him get a toy as it does keep the nipping down. I doubt Obe will ever change as far as the herding goes but I dont mind and encourage it during our play time. If I run he will try and herd me. It is funny actually he will position himself between me and the door. I guess he thinks as long as he is in between me and the door that I must continue to play and cannot go inside. |
| Oh good it's normal- the backs of my knees are killing me!!
We try to put a toy in Rufus' mouth when he plays too, to prevent him taking chunks out of us, but there is not always one nearby. He also thinks we are stuffies  |
| I'm glad to see we're not alone! Bogie's been pretty good with the basics- walking on lead, housebreaking etc, but the nipping is a challenge. We do the toy substitution and the back turning, but if he gets too rambunctious he needs a "time out" in his house. The bigger challenge is training my 10 year old who's really good with him but on the small side, so I think he thinks she's a lamb. He nipped her pretty hard on the upper arm this week so I try to see that she doesn't get too low to the ground and uses a forceful voice. |
| My puppy likes to herd us, too. But he's most of the time very friendly. My approach to his aggressive behavior like nipping clothes and jumping on us is to kneel down to be on the same level as him and give him lots of rubbing and hugging. As a puppy, all he needs is love and attention, I guess. For a week or so, we tried to be stricter but he only got worse with that kind of agressive behavior. Also, I filled a plastic cup with some coins and wrapped it with tapes. Whenever he jumps onto us or nips our clothes, I shake the cup and he'll back away because he doesn't like that noise. I suggest using that whenever your puppy is doing something you disapprove. I'm a first-time dog owner and I never wanted another breed but an OES. It has been such a joy and a lot of trial of my patience. I'm still learning every day. |
Dumbbell wrote: My approach to his aggressive behavior like nipping clothes and jumping on us is to kneel down to be on the same level as him and give him lots of rubbing and hugging. As a puppy, all he needs is love and attention, I guess.
If you think about what you're doing, you'll realize you are rewarding bad behavior. Your puppy will most likely jump and nip any time he wants to be rubbed and hugged and will come to expect it. The coins in a can is usually annoying to a dog. Ignoring the bad behavior is not the reaction he wants so try that . A toy in the mouth will deter nipping. There are lots of great ideas here on the forum. A puppy needs more than love and attention, he needs direction. Now is the best time to do this. Better to learn positive behavior now than changing bad behavior later. |
| Thanks for correcting what I said. I didn't put it in the right way. What I meant to say was to give the puppy more love and attention by giving more rubbing and hugging, but not when it nips or jumbs onto you. I don't reward my puppy when he's bad. I turn my back towards him when he tries to jump and tell him "no" when he nips my clothes and walk away from him. Am I doing this right? It's great there are experienced sheepie owners in the forum like you to guide us newbies. Thanks. |
| All those snuggles will go along way! G4U
zach |
| Hi Dumbbell ~ If you'd like to meet up with other sheepies & their owners, let me know. Tarheel Old English Sheepdog rescue has get togethers periodically. We're at Bark in the Park, in Charlotte, in the spring, and we may do something in December.
And, I'm in Hickory, which is just an hour or so from you, if you'd like a playdate sometime.  |
| That's great news to know there are other Old English Sheepdogs in the Charlotte area. I've never seen another OES in the neighborhood and even the vet clinic said they rarely get this breed. I'm in NW Charlotte. It will be great to meet other OES and their owners! |
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