is crating necessary?
They did finally settle down, but at 2 am they woke us all by barking and whining like crazy. (Went to bed at 12 pm, so it had only been 2 hours since thay had been out last) So, I came down and brought them out one at a time to go pee..and they didn't have to. So, after a half an hour of this, I just let them in their room without going back in the cage. I guess my question is this: Is there anyone out there who supports the non-crate method? I know there is a lot of support for using them. The truth is, I'm only attempting this because everything I've read has made me feel like it's the thing to do. But our system otherwise was working pretty good. The dogs have the family room as theirs at night. It's gated off and plenty safe. And the pups don't even sleep with each other half the time. Suprisingly, they are very independent. Often times, one ventures outside via the doggy door and the other stays in. And half the time they sleep on opposite ends of the room. So, in terms of crating them to teach each other not to need each other, I think that argument in our circumstance doesn't apply. Is it ok to just do what works for us, or would I be doing our girls a great disservice? I want to do whatever is best, but not quite sure what is. And the housetraining is going pretty well too. I find an occasional pee here and there and almost never a poop. Any thoughts on this? Thanks, Rebecca |
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| I don't feel crating at night is necessary as long as the puppies are in a safe environment, with nothing dangerous they could chew on like an electrical cord. I always crated until potty trained.
My last puppy was a long time ago (my current dogs are rescues) My puppy would whine and cry all night long. I solved the problem by putting the crate in my bedroom. I would crated my dogs when I was gone during the day, as there was way too much stuff they could get into. Especially if they got bored. I did it for their safety and my sanity. My pup ate the bottoms of the kitchen cabinets, about 10 different pairs of shoes....usually one from each pair  (He actually opened the closet door to get to them.  )
and about a million of my son's toys. Pepsi, my male OES, was trustworthy from the time I got him at 10 month old. Rags (female OES) too but she was almost 2 yrs old when we rescued her. Then there was Harley, my German Shepherd, who we rescued at a year and a half old, could not be trusted completely until 3 yrs old. Once he jumped threw the screen window. Another time he ate a bed, not just a bed, but a double size pillow top mattress and box spring. Another time at around 2 1/2 yrs old my Husband left him in the garage instead of putting him into the crate in the garage. He had chewed through an extension cord and he lost a portion of his tongue and had to have a tooth pulled do to having his gum fried. He could have easily died. All dogs are different.... I guess that is what I am trying say. What works for one dog may not for another. |
| Can you put the crates in your bedroom with you? |
I put mine in a room with a baby gate at the door, that works as long as there is not anything they can chew up that could be dangerous for them. 
Going out they were in their too not left to have free run of the house till they were well past the chewy destructo stage.
My last one as a Pup she had a puppy pen rather then a crate, in there a bed, her water all her toys and room to play. Set up in the family room so she was around us all and was very happy in there to sleep & put her in when we went outl. I even fed her meals in the pen so the others would not pinch her food. |
| You are brave with 2 puppies, I have kept 2 girls from my last litter and don't find it easy and I am a "pro". Mine never wined in their crates , they are in crates still at night and next to one and other and next to the others. You have to be consistent and they will calm down before you know it, until they become little houligans and terrors, that's when the fun really starts. Anyway I would not sell 2 littermates as puppies to any one. |
| My suggestion, do whatever you choose. If you are more comfortable with your method, than go in that direction. But, IMO, if you are going to depend on a crate in the future, better get use to some not so peaceful nights in the immediate future, because two nights is not enough time to jump off the crate training (or any other type of training).
There are several threads here to help you: http://forum.oes.org/viewforum.php?f=25 |
| Think to the future and ask yourself if having the dogs crate trained will be helpful. In my case, we had to leave our dog at home for several hours at a time when he was a puppy due to our work schedules, and the crate was a blessing. It was also helpful when we had people over who were uncomfortable with large dogs, or during large family meals (Thanksgiving, Xmas) when his excitement overcame his training. Also, when we go out of town on vacation, we leave him with a dog sitter who requires that the dogs who stay at her house are crate trained. But, your circumstances are different and if you don't need the crates, then do whatever works best for you. Make sure you take anything valuable out of that family room
Now, Bailey is nearly 3 and we rarely put him in his crate anymore because he's well trained and much calmer. But at 18 months, I was pretty happy to have the crate 
If you do decide to stick with it, it will take several weeks before they sleep through the night. Good luck either way! |
| Or when they are spayed....It would be good for them to have crate time to recover..
As a matter of fact, if a dog has to be kenneled for vet care, or boarding or whatever, it is a lot less stressful if they are used to being in a small space for a period of time. Crating was handy when we went camping, or visiting, and when the dogs need to be contained for whatever reason and cannot go outside at that time. I don't use them muchnow, anymore, but they were a life-saver when they were young, and I can still crate them when I need to. |
| Take heart! If you want to continue using the crates in the future for the variety of reasons mentioned above then I would continue at night. Bingley was much worse the 2nd night than the first when he was tired from his first big day. He steadily got better and learned he could only come out of his crate if he was quiet. We set an alarm for the middle of the night to wake up and bring him out. We slowly pushed this back a half hour every week until he made it through the night. This way he didn't need to whine at us to get us up for potty time, so we were consistent in the "barking does not mean leave your crate" theory! Now that he is a "big boy" at 15 months old he goes in his crate voluntarily - door open - to sleep every night. It is my suggestion that if you don't want a hairy sheepie jumping on you at 2 in the morning you remember to close the door - which I forgot the other night!
If you don't care as much about crating in the future you could try blocking off a tiled room for them, but keep in mind that a bigger space is easier for them to pee in one corner and sleep in another. |
| The only thing about blocking them off in a room that may not work long term is if they become jumpers. A baby gate worked great to keep Beau in the kitchen, but Genny jumped over it immediately upon arrival in my home. So, I knew there was no way it would work for her. Just something else to consider as they will need to be contained in some way, most likely, until they reach about two years old. |
| Edgar didn't like it at all. And for the first two weeks it was very frustrating. Now he is used to it and goes in every night to sleep. We have actually been talking about getting rid of the crate as it is too big for him and takes up a lot of room. We do have a pop up travel crate that we would use in instances that we would need one. If I got another puppy I would crate train again in an instant. There are to many times that come up in it being very handy. Once they get older and trustworthy it doesn't matter so much anymore.
That is a good point about the vet cages. I never thought about that one before.  |
bizboots wrote: You are brave with 2 puppies, I have kept 2 girls from my last litter and don't find it easy and I am a "pro". Mine never wined in their crates , they are in crates still at night and next to one and other and next to the others.
You have to be consistent and they will calm down before you know it, until they become little houligans and terrors, that's when the fun really starts. Anyway I would not sell 2 littermates as puppies to any one. Oh Edy, I KNOW what you are going through! Checkers and Calypso are just like your two......... I dont remember Duncan and Jessica being this naughty when they were little!!! I won't ever sell 2 to anyone either.......... These 2 are making me feel very very old.............. lol |
| I cannot say anything that has not already been said. Obe was in a crate at first then started giving him some freedom later on. Now it is there if he wants to go in. If I leave the house for a long time he goes in his crate or if it is raining and I dont want him in the back yard. Nothing worse then coming home from work and having a wet muddy sheepie greet you as the garage door opens. He is now 15 months (will be the 31st) and at night he sleeps on the floor, bed, or in his crate the door is open for him to choose. Some nights he does all three. Most of the time he sleep on the bed though. |
| Ali and I never remember Tyler and Haley like this either, they just NEVER stop, sigh and than try to keep their coat for the shows |
We're crate training Nanny, and she goes in around 11:30pm. She currently has us up at 2am, 4am, and 6am.  Doesn't make for a fun night, but seeing as how the puppies are 2 1/2 months old now, they should be able to hold it for 3 1/2 hours. Plus, I take her food and water away after her 7pm dinner. We're hoping to get her to a 10:30 potty and go to bed, 2:30am potty, and 6:30am potty and up and awake schedule in the next few weeks. I'll let you know how that goes...
She does whine in the crate a little, but she usually settles down after about a minute. |
| Edy: face it they are getting younger and we are getting older!!!
Re: Nanny: She is just a baby........ my guys are now 5 mo old and we are JUST at going to bed at 11 pm and up at 630 am now...... it will take time.......... but you will get there. Right now my Hoover Steam Vac and Odoban are getting a workout. for some reason my guys have all of the sudden forgot about potty training......>sigh< Hang in there, they will get it eventually!!! Ali |
| Ali, mine go to their crates at 9.30 until 7 am and I have peace!!!!!!!!!!!they get their treat and are happy. They are 15 months old and still behave like they are 5 months old , that is because they are so focused to one and other as they are together all the time, need to change that uh.Well next week I am taking one to a show and the other stays here, so see waht happens than. |
| Wow two at once...
I can't even imagine! I remember being peed on a few nights in a row as I was trying to wisk a then baby Luca to the door...ugh I went with crate training for a number of different reasons that have already been mentioned...Edy is right, be consistent and things will clear up...but it does take time!!! There are no quick fixes when it comes to puppies that's for sure! Good luck! |
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