biting, cont.
She just endured a slumber party & visit to a nursing home, not just endured, excelled! This weekend we went camping with her. 2 days, everything was GREAT! Last night, I guess she was exhausted. My 12 year old just layed down in the camper & looked at Maudie& got bit. (It's always the same kid, the aspiring vet that ADORES dogs) She nailed her on the nose& inside of the mouth, drew blood. At home , she would have been banished to the laundry room, but what do you do in the middle of nowhere? We know now to LEAVE HER ALONE when she's over tired, but I have terrible guilt that my kids can't nuzzle their sheepy at, like I used to do with mine. The unpredictible part of her is what keeps me up at night. I literally stayed awake the entire night& decided that we probably should let her go. I told my husband my decision& he said "no, get some good advice, try it, but one more bite& she's gone" HELP HELP HELP! I'm afraid we're playing with dynamite here. I love Maudie to pieces, but my family comes 1st. |
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| I'm so sorry this happened... I hope your daughter will be okay.
Is it only with this one child that Maudie shows aggression or has she shown aggression with adults too? Have you spoken with a rescue? You might consider having her evaluated by a behaviorist to see if she can be rehomed. Aggression can never be tolerated... but maybe children simply exceed Maudie's limits. All dogs have a bite threshold and Maudie's appears to be very low when it comes to children. She may simply need to be placed in a home with adults only. Just an opinion... I am not a trainer. |
| I am soooo hoping this was an accident, but if your 12 yr old was not touching her, then there was something else going on. She reacted out of fear, or defence, but why? That is the question.....
Maudie was a rescue, right? You adopted her at 1 and a bit, earlier this summer, right? Have you contacted Maddie about her behavior? And have you discussed with Maddie the use of the shock collar to stop her from biting? It is possible that Maudie has related the shock collar to your child, and reacted accordingly. That is often what happens with those devises, and any kind of physical correction....The dog can relate something entirely different to what you think, and then has a behavioral problem. I will admit that I am not a fan of any kind of physical punishment, or electronic training devices. This MIGHT be the result of its use,but maybe not. But I would contact the rescue group that Maudie came from and see what they have to say. I am very sorry to hear of this happening. Is is always frightening for a child to get bitten,especially one who is planning on a carreer helping animals. I hope your child is OK.  |
| I read your prior posts. Maudie is about 2 years old. I think you will get a lot of advice from here but in my opinion...............
Maudie is a 2 year old rescue. You really don't know much about her history so you don't know what you are dealing with. Did you ever contact the rescue (in prior posts) and see if you could find out if there was a biting issue? Again, in prior posts, it looks like she has bitten when she is excited....to protect your kids from the cats and now because she is tired. I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I understand why you are worried, I would be too. (A very long time ago, I had half of my bottom lip bitten off by a neighbor's dog, so I am familiar with bites on the face especially.) Maybe you should contact an animal behaviourist. I had to consult one when we got Cosmo (BYB)...I wanted to be sure he would be ok around the grandkids before we decided on him....he has alot of "issues" but aggression isn't one of them--- A behaviourist will be able to evaluate Maude and maybe suggest some kind of special training. Although, they are not cheap...in the long run, a good behaviourist will help you--- Until you decide how you are going to deal with this, I would strongly suggest that you watch her very closely whenever the kids are around. I would not let the kids "play"rough or cuddle her since you really can't trust her not to bite. I am curious...most dogs give a warning growl before actually biting...it doesn't sound like Maude does this which makes her more threatening. I know how bad you must be feeling about this whole situation and I am sorry this is happening but I think you need to address this..it seems to have happened too many times to ignore. Keep us posted on your decision. |
| I agree get help. WE had to with Darcy.adeline got a trainer who came in and did some help. I am the one who get bitten all the time. If you could see my arms lad bottom legs
Right now I have to walk backwards into each room if she comes up to me. She leaves tomarrow for the nationals with Madeline and handler. She will be gone for 4 days or 5. They hope to try and get her on track. She is only 6 months. I have thought of giving her back also. Last week when taking her out she pulled me so hard and draged me I hhave 3 cracked ribs. My hubby says one more time and she is gone. Good luck, hope your daughter is ok. |
| First of all, I hope you daughter is okay, I know how she feels (my mom knows how you feel).
6Girls has good points and I would need more information about her such as, was your daughter alone when this happened? What was Maudie's body language like? Dogs don't always growl when they warn for a lot of reason. 1 of them can be because she was taught not to "warn growl". (This could have been taught to her before you got her) She might have warned your daughter in another way that she got into her space and that could have been that she was moving slower, even freeze. I admit it is pretty hard to read a 'bobtail' when they have their coat is so long! There is one thing you should know though. Physical correction used on an aggressive dog (that includes fear aggression too) will make the problem even worse. If you don't time it properly a totally normal dog can become aggressive too. I.e. a dog jumps on children, you use e-collars, pinch collars, etc. to correct the jumping behavior. You don't time the correction properly and the dog might associate that children are dangerous or they are "painful" every time the dog sees them so the dog becomes aggressive when children around. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? It is VERY hard to give you advice on the forum. She does have behavior problems and I would highly recommend a behaviorist too or a dog trainer that does behavior problems in your area - private trainer would be the best because the trainer can then see how you guys live and what you do the dog, etc. Privates are more expensive than group classes but it worth it! You can look for trainers in your area on www.apdt.com or www.animalbehaviorcollege.com Oh, and one more thing! Don't feel bad about this! You are doing your best - even more! And one way or the other but help is on the way!  |
| I didn't know about the electric collar...
Was an electric correction usually given when this particular child was around? Could Maudie have associated pain with this child or this child as being the source/cause of the pain? Just wondering what may have been going on in Maudie's head. Since biting was previously an issue, maybe this is irrelevant. I can vouch for private sessions with a good trainer. We've brought a professional trainer in for help with dog-on-dog aggression. They get a better idea of the dog's temperament, they can see your setup and may be able to provide some good advice on how best to proceed. I know your daughter must be very upset considering she loves animals so much. As a child I had watched a Purina Dog Chow commercial and they had showed a kid hugging their dog. I tried to do the same and had the bejabbers scared out of me when our old cantankerous dog tried to bite me. He didn't like to be hugged obviously. But hugs to your little girl... I hope it won't dissuade her from her desire to be a vet. |
| The electric collar can do more damage than good if not used properly and cautiously. For me it would be the absolute last resort.
Not knowing all the details, biting of any kind is totally unacceptable. however, we as humans tend to encourage it wituout realizing it. It starts as small mouthing wheh they're puppies and we allow it and the dog learns its okay to put our teeth on skin. Since you have a rescue, its impossible to know where she's been before you. But we can assume since she was a rescue she was not wanted where she was and probably not treated nicely. Obedience training is one way to help. It doesn't sound to me like you have an "aggressive" biter. She seems to bit when she's excited...and this bite to your daughter's face is worrisome and not acceptable but an agressive dog will do more damage than what you described. Perhaps your dog has not learned proper play. has not learned how to "settle" when too excited. has not learned not to put teeth to skin EVER. All these things can be helped with training. Remember dogs are animals who do what animals do normally. It is us as humans who need to teach them what is acceptable and what is not. if we don't teach them that, how would they know? they are dogs. I hope your daughter is okay. And until this is resolved I would not allow anyone to put their face close to her and be careful when she is running and getting excited. Try training...it will help. Good Luck. |
| Thanks for all of the quick responses! First off, I got rid of the shock collar
after the last post. It wouldn't have done any good last night anyway, she's too quick& unpredictable. I am MOST definantly going to look into a local trainer. I've always said that she has too many great qualities to get rid of her. Maudie will tun 2 on New Years Eve, she is a rescue. The best advice that we've gotten (in the middle of an earlier weepy night!) is to ignore for a week. We told our 12 yr. , this time, you need to stick to it! She DID not give a warning growl, she had jumped upon 12 yr. old's bed,the rest of us were cleaning up our campsite& the next thing we knew, snap!! She has bitten my husband, when he handled her improperly, and my older daughter for the same reason, but not for 6 mo. me-never And this is the weird part, she & my 5 year old hang out all day, every day,no biting. |
| I just sent out 2 e-mails to local trainers |
| Did dhe know your daughter was on the bed? Maybe it scared her. Our Sami went after my hub twice(Snapped) both times it was a to get her off the couch. I think it was an alpha thing and it was a while ago. To this day thou Dave can not play hard with her she gets to rough and will get carried away. My son and myself never had problems my daughter who is 15 and very soft spoken and to firm up her voice because Sami wanted to be the boss there for sure. Once she started that Sami settled down. With Your dog being a recue you never know what has happened and you do have to retrain them. |
| VERY GOOD point! As hard as we played w/ her that day, she may have been sound asleep & startled to see my daughter staring at her! |
| I think you definately did the right thing calling the trainers to help. And reading the last post, maybe she was startled. Or maybe a loud noise - their hearing is a hundred times better than what we hear. I think you are on the right track and will have this problem corrected. She is a very lucky dog finding you!
Good luck...keep us posted. |
| I had a rescue that didn't like children. I didn't have any when we got him, but later on we did. He was ok with them when they were babies, but after that he had to spend his days outside, and only came inside when the kids were in bed. It was difficult, but we made it until the end at 12 yrs. Other than that he was a good dog. I really think the first family that had him taught him to fear children. They said they got rid of him because he was knocking the kids down...but it makes you think. What did they do to him when this happened? I think whatever they did let him know that kids caused him to be punished...what else could he think? |
| I guess if we had no way to relay our life story, maybe we'd use our teeth too! |
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