Molly and Maisy updates
I went back and forth on the crate thing and I still may change things up, but for now, we're just feeling out what works. We started them off each in their own crate, but when the breeder delivered them to us, she seemed to think it was unnecessary. She said she never used them. And since at first we do have a room in our house dedicated to them, it's not like they would be running all over the house at night without being in one. Plus, she said I ought to use the puppy pads as she had begun to do with them back at home. So, we took the gates off, let them have free roam to food and water and their puppy pad. Well, needless to say, that didn't go so well. They Peed and Pooed and stepped all over it while playing and I was lost about what to do. So then we tried to put them seperately in their crates at night, and we put the gates back on the front, but they really whined and didn't like it. They cried in there like little babies for hours. I'd take them potty, offer them water, give them their toys, but they just didn't like being trapped in their crates. I felt so bad for them. It's not even that they wanted each other so much as they wanted to be able to walk around and they like, believe it or not, to sleep on their bellies on the cold wood floor. The crates have their blankies in them..which you would think would be the cosiest, but most times they want to sleep on the floor. So, now, (not to say this won't change) this is what I've done. I moved their bowls of food and water outdoors in a covered area. And indoors, we took off the puppy gates to their crates and tried to make their crates appealing to them with toys and blankies. So they have open access to their areas, which they do use and love. They go in with out being encouraged to, often..and each goes in a seperate one. Maybe people will have some reason why the food being outside is not a good idea??..who knows, but it seems to me that they make the association with eating and pottying being outdoors. .. Ever since I made this change, they pee and poop in the house much less! ..And they still spend almost the same amount of time indoors, this is the only difference. And I don't want to get too excited yet, because I realize it could be just a coinsidence playing a mean trick on me, but Molly will pout and fuss for the past two days at the foot of the indoor ramp or at the gate blocking her from the kitchen, then I unlock the puppy door..she goes out and I've noticed when she finally makes the trip to the end of the 17 ft ramp, she will go to the cedar chipped area and pee and poop before even going for the water or food. She's even done that with no food in mind and comes back in. It can't be though..right? They can't get it this quickly, right? And don't get me wrong, in the past 2 mornings, I have still had to pick up some pee piles, but nothing in comparison to the first few. And the puppy ramps and puppy door are the best thing ever! We have a colonial and we replaced the bottom sash of the window to our playroom (now puppy room..until trusted in the rest of the home) with a peice of plywood all fixed into place and obviously weatherized..and in the middle we put the biggest petco puppy door we could buy. And since the bottom of the window is about 5 feet off the ground when you are standing outside, the ramp we built leading to our fully fenced in yard had to be 17 feet long so that the incline wouldn't be too steep. And when you're inside the house there is about two feet from the floor to the puppy door, so my husband built about a 5 foot ramp extending to the floor which we carpeted for traction and a dirt catcher. The ramp on the outside has railings so the pups nor my children who love the ramp cannot fall off. Don't mean to bore you all with the details of this, I'm working on figuring out the picture thing. But someone had asked me about this and could picture it or how this worked, so I hope this helps. The best part of all is how enjoyable it is to learn their different personalities. Maisy is more energetic and feisty. She's spunky and bubbly and always wants to be outdoors playing with the ball..and she's the peanut of the two. And Molly just wants to cuddle and sleep all day. She loves being on her couch and loves taking cat naps under my back porch. She always goes indoors through the ramp and then tries to coax Maisy to come in with her with these little enticing puppy coos, but Maisy is often in her own world and enjoys her independence. Both puppies get individual interaction with numerous people. We live in a huge neighborhood and all of the neighborhood kids are like magnets to our house. We have both entries to the fence padlocked so our kids and puppies won't escape..the older kids were proving to be unreliable about locking it as they came in oand out, so we had to padlock the doors. So now, the only way to get to the back yard where the puppies are is to walk through my front door and go out my slider out back. So, the neighborhood kids have had to get used to this and have no trouble doing so. After school, I have about a dozen kids who make their way here before even going home. The pups are great with the kids! And each kid has their favorite and get plenty of attention with them. They are absolutely adored! Gotta go, sorry for the novel..I'll be back in a while, Rebecca |
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| Normally, it's better not to keep any blankets or anything soft in the crate if you're crate training a pup because, usually, they'll pee on it. Most of the time, like you noticed, they just like sleeping on the cold floor anyway! It's important that the crate is small enough, too, otherwise they'll just pee in the corner that they aren't in. Really, all they need until they're trained, is enough room to get up and turn around. The small space can actually make them feel more secure and comfortable.
Are you feeding them at specific times or just letting them eat whenever they want? Pups usually do better with set feeding times at first just so you can get a better handle on housetraining and potty habits. but, if you are freefeeding, I wouldn't leave the food outside. The humidity of the morning and evening air can get in it and cause it to start to go weird, plus you'll start attracting every wild animal in a 2 mile radius! Even if they don't eat it all, you don't want wild animals leaving any germs in the bowls, you know? Sounds like Molly and Maisy are a lot of fun. I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying them! |
Quote: Well, needless to say, that didn't go so well. They Peed and Pooed and stepped all over it while playing and I was lost about what to do.  I'm sorry... I shouldn't laugh but so much of this was trial and error for us too. The breeder of my two sister-littermates never used crates either and didn't care for them but we decided it would be best for these girls. It made housetraining and safety so much easier.With "The Twins", we crated them the first 6 months. Each had their own crate so they would learn to be separate from each other but the crates were kept side-by-side. I kept a cloth sheet screen between the cages. http://oesusa.com/70s.jpg They were really close... http://oesusa.com/Cuddles.jpg http://oesusa.com/Sleepy.jpg But we gradually grew them into adults that could function separately... they NEED this to be mentally healthy. But mine were part of a pack so it was a little easier. They will definitely whine when they're separated... you just have to be more determined than they are. I guess I wanted to make sure that one would be okay without the other just in case something were to happen. Still, they did bond stronger than the others but they aren't frantic or anxious about being without the other. Quote: I moved their bowls of food and water outdoors in a covered area.
NO... not a good idea. If you're putting food bowls outdoors, the food WILL attract rodents, cats, flies... possibly causing disease. You might want to consider scheduled feedings... 3 times a day for the first 6 months unless advised differently by your vet. For scheduled feedings, you put the food down, it's eaten in about 10 minutes or less (usually much less), then the dishes are washed and put away 'til the next meal. Also, when you control what goes in, you'll control what/when it comes out which is also great for housetraining. Now is the time to start training... you can use commands that puppies will naturally follow. Within 3 days my 9-10 week old pups had learned to sit and lie down with the use of treats... even my blind pup. (Gotta figure out how to compact a video  ) They are little sponges at this age... keep training fun and brief, meaning only 1-3 minutes, but repeat it several times a day. They LOVE this kind of training... start out one-on-one. This is another reason to have scheduled feedings... so they will look forward to the tiny treats you'll offer during training.
Holler if you need any help. I can't wait to see pictures of you babies  |
| It's so hard to know what to do sometimes becuase different people will tell you different thtaught the kids to leave them be ings. I had been told at petsmart and had read that you should make their crates nice and cozy with a blankie..something that can be thrown into the washer though if needed. But, this morning there was only one little pee pile on the floor and the girls were itching to go out when I got up. I unlocked the doggy door and then they ran right out and did their thing. So for now, I'll probably keep things as they are. The crate doors are off, but they offer the only soft area to lay down in that room, other than the couch which is for them, but they can't hop on by themselves yet. So, they go into their crates by themselves when they're wanting to lie on their blankie..and someimes they go in there to escape from the chaos of the kids..and we have taught the kids to leave them be when they are in their crates. So, so far this seems to be working wonderfully.
I am free feeding during the day with dry food, but I bring it outside in the morning..I don't leave it out. And I obviously refill the water jug/bowl thingy first thing in the morning and then set it out too. But in the morning, I mix 1/2 dry with 1/2 can food (as breeder thought I ought to) and they usually woof that right down. Then I do that again at night, but all during the day, I offer them dry food in the self feeder. But the free feeding ends each night when I lock the puppy door. Who knows, maybe things will change, but for now this seems to be working out. They are so cute! Thanks for the advice and help here! It's really appreciated. One of the girls tends to be a nipper. She bites on pant legs and my kids pj shorts. I have read to ignore this and she'll stop, but that's impossible to do because the kids sometimes get hurt. So, I've stressed to the kids the importance of giving her a toy when she starts to nip, but sometimes Maisy is just determined for the pants. What's the thought on what o do about that? I take the puppy's mouth and close it with my hand gently and say, no no to the pup when she starts to nip, and then I hand her a toy. Do you think this is a good approach? |
| ..sorry about that, was busy typing while you must have posted this first. You say there is a risk of disease with the food? Do you think that is still the case even knowing I take in their bowls?
You have a blind dog? Totally blind? How'd that happen? Not genetic, I hope? That must make things challenging? -so you think the whining is normal when in their crates with the gates on the front? |
Quote: What's the thought on what o do about that? I take the puppy's mouth and close it with my hand gently and say, no no to the pup when she starts to nip, and then I hand her a toy. Do you think this is a good approach?
No. It is never a good idea to hold a puppy's mouth closed. She doesn't learn not to bite, she learns to be on her guard when a hand approches her head. She will become difficult to handle, to look at teeth etc. Worse than that she feel defensive and she may then start to bite an approaching hand to protect herself. Not a good practice with kids around. Puppies bite. She has to be allowed to bite, but gently and on appropriate articles. |
Quote: You say there is a risk of disease with the food? Do you think that is still the case even knowing I take in their bowls? I guess I'd look at it this way... if you have chipmunks, mice, voles, rats, cats, flies, etc. coming to a now popular food dish in the neighborhood to eat, what diseases are they carrying? They leave their saliva and droppings on the food your puppies are then eating and also bring around fleas and other parasites. If you feel a need to leave the food out for them, keep it in the house. Also, whenever there is free-feeding, you need to closely monitor weights to make sure they aren't over eating and growing too fast which can lead to possible ortho-problems. Quote: -so you think the whining is normal when in their crates with the gates on the front? Oh yeah... it's completely normal behavior. They are whining so you'll make a change. You have to set the rules early on so you rule the dog and not the other way around. Look at it this way... the puppy is in her crate and she's whining. Mom comes and lets her out. What has she just learned? If I whine, I get my own way... mom gives me freedom... how cool is that? No, it may not be fun getting through the first week or so but they come to learn that there will be limits set that they simply have to live with. Now there are legitimate reasons they may be whining... like having to potty, etc. But not just because their freedom has been limited. If you continue to give in, the dog is training you, not the other way around and you'll most likely have problems down the road. Two are definitely more of a challenge than one. These puppies are easy to handle and train at this age and size... maybe 18-20 pounds? Now think of the same behavior in a dog weighing 60-65 pounds and you'll understand the importance of early training. I adopted a 60 pound sheepie at the age of 10 1/2 months that had a lot of the behavioral issues... she was like a 10-12 week old puppy in some ways because she knew no limits. Your little girls will grow into big, powerful dogs so that first year is so very important. Quote: You have a blind dog? Totally blind? How'd that happen? Not genetic, I hope?
Yeah... she's a challenge. We can't keep up with her We think she may see shadows with her "good" eye... the other eye is non-functioning. Blind dogs act just about the same as a seeing dog except they bump into things that are out of place or until they map out new surroundings. http://oesusa.com/KayteeRunning.jpg Probably genetic... she also has a cleft palate and a littermate had a more serious health problem. The mother was spayed so another litter would never be produced which was the responsible thing to do.
Do I have all the answers? Definitely NOT but I do have one little blind sheepie that was given too much freedom out of sympathy (mainly from my husband and HE knows it ) so I'm speaking from experience. You may want to bring in a professional trainer now to help you get on the right track.
All we can do is share our own experiences and things we've learned along the way. Many of us are sharing ideas in the hopes it will help to prevent problems down the road. So many people go into this with good intentions but these magnificent creatures sometimes loose because of poor training or owners simply unprepared to meet the needs of this breed- http://thesheepiestore.com/Assistance.htm . We just want to help you to succeed and have the companions you are hoping for. |
| We have always done the "Kisses, no bite" thing with the pups. When they give kisses, say "Kisses" in a happy, high-pitched voice. "No bite" is spoken in a deep, angry voice when they bite. It usually works quickly.
For the slow learners, my vet had us wiggle our fingers while they were in their mouths. It doesn't feel good (but it doesn't really hurt either), so they quickly learn to stop. Remember to say "No bite" while you do it. None of my dogs are hand shy in the least. |
| Something to consider in the free feeding vs scheduled feeding is potty training.
If you put your pups on a schedule for food, it's much easier to predict when they will need to eliminate, and so much easier to be successful. A common schedule--the one that I used and it seems a lot of other people around here did/do with pups is a breakfast feeding, a noon feeding and a dinner feeding--far enough from bedtime to make it easier to get all the poops out before everybody goes to sleep for the night. What I found is that gradually, the pups were a little less interested in the noon meal, and so I began to make that one a bit smaller and add that food to the morning meal, or to split it between the morning and evening meal. Eventually, over a couple of weeks or so, they simply didn't act at all interested in their lunch and I discontinued what little was left of it. Worked great. Mine still get 2 meals a day. I pick up uneaten food after about half an hour or so. I don't really rush because I don't want my dogs to scarf down their food too fast and have it come back up or worse, to get bloat. This is my compromise of the scheduled feed.. Re: nipping at clothing. Normal, herding/sheepie behavior that needs to be corrected. Most do this to some extent and they can learn not to do it, too. Of course, teethng time makes it worse. Takes patience, but you can do it The strategy of offering an appropriate chew toy is a good one, as is distraction. You also will want to teach the command of OFF or Leave It--not just for nipping, which is the main concern now--you don't want your kids hurt or clothes ruined or your pups to have bad habits. But it will also come in handy when your pups pick up something they shouldn't have, especially if it is something dangerous, say a dead bird. Mine are experts at finding dessicated bird carcasses and hiding them in their beards. Very bad idea, not to mention totally disgusting. Or garbage. It took time, but now, mine will drop virtually anything, no matter how disgusting and delicious, upon command. This can literally be a life saving command, not to mention very, very helpful for your own comfort. Dropping the forbidden item is followed by lavish praise, and at first, always by a tiny bit of something really good and not dangerous. And I do mean tiny--it's amazing how a very tiny treat will motivate a dog as much as a giant one. Oh, just wanted to mention that you might find it useful to post your questions under specific headings on the forum, or to read through posts. I've found a lot of tips to questions I was going to ask already addressed. and lots of things I had never considered. Great information out there from some extremely knowledgeable people. |
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