long or short coat
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| Good question!
I keep young active Maggie in short coat because she loves to get dirty and I like to let her romp knowing I can easily hose her down. 
I had older prissy Chumley in long hair and it was not hard to maintain but her medical treatment lead to the trim because she was so uneven with all the shaved patches. Plus she was in the water alot for rehab and short hair made that easier too. 
It is growing back now and I like it all fuzzy but it actually makes her look older.  |
oes looker wrote: We are very much considering an OES for our next dog member. We have always had goldens in the past but have thought of trying a different breed. I have read quite a bit but the one thing I would like to know is do most of you keep your dogs shorn or do you keep their coats long? I see pictures of both. Honestly, the coat on an animal is like their crowning adornment and what sets them apart from other breeds. I would never have shorn my golden's beautiful coat off, but I see many pics of OES's that have been. Is this because it is just too hard to take care of so therefore most people don't bother? Just looking for some real opinions. TIA
Whenever someone asks about the grooming requirements of an OES in full coat I tell them honestly: It take about 4-5 hrs. to get an OES ready for a show. This is a dog that has no mats, just needs to be completely brushed out, fluffed up and a few ends trimmed off the coat. If you don't have the time to learn to groom an Old English and the time to maintain the coat, you'll probably end up with a shorn dog as well. Most groomers HATE to work on OES and very few know how to properly groom them. That said, we love our OES's for their personalities even more than the coat. Many OES owners do well with their dogs in a "puppy cut", which is manageable yet good looking. Can you find someone in your area that breeds and shows OES? If you really want to see what you're getting into beforehand, find a mentor that will show you what it takes to keep their dogs in full coat. Good luck! |
oes looker wrote: I would never have shorn my golden's beautiful coat off, but I see many pics of OES's that have been. Is this because it is just too hard to take care of so therefore most people don't bother? Just looking for some real opinions. TIA
Hi, The OES are different from Goldens because they have hair not fur. The good news is they don't shed. But if you keep them in full coat the hair just keeps growing, so it would need to be trimmed. As mentioned above, most groomers have no idea on what to do with a Sheepdog besides shaving them. I live in the Desert and keep my dogs short for the summer and let them grow out in the winter. Also my Male HATES being in full coat, once he's at about 3" he starts chewing his fur.  So he pretty much stays short year round. |
| My usual habit is...long in winter (although they never really make it ALL the way to full coat) and short in summer.
I happen to love the way sheepies look in a variety of lengths. I adore the long beatiful coats, and actually enjoy brushing in winter, but when we do our summer shave its like..."wow! thats what my dog looks like!" 
Also, aside from heat, the summer short cut lets my dogs swim, run in the woods, go camping with us, etc, without having to concider grooming issues. The fur grows back very fast. If you do find yourself needing to shave your OES, its really not a tragedy!  Also, as Val mentioned, most of us love our sheepies more for their wonderful clownish personalitys, than for their lovely fur. 
Heres my boy in both long and short looks: 
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| I have a long haired Golden, who actually mats worse than the girls.
The girls are both kept in their long coats, with the undercoat removed. I comb them out weekly, with touch ups as needed for whatever activities they've been doing. Bailey's coat doesn't tend to mat easily, a blessing. Her coat is also naturally longer than Riley's. I do trim her chin, as it tends to stay brown if I don't. Riley mats up if you look at her.  My son's Blue Heeler pup is spending the weekdays with us for socialization - he loves to bite at Riley's legs. <sigh> I get to comb her out almost nightly to remove the mats on her legs. But that it very quick to do.
The trade off for keeping them in a long coat is that they are limited in their outdoor activities during the heat of the day. I don't tolerate the heat that well either, so it works out. We do early morning and late night walks to the park down the street. If you get a sheepie, you'll soon get a second! |
| They go through coat changes from a pup to a mature breed, (2 transitions) at that time a lot of people end up in a mess and clip there OES off and start again. It is a hard stage with matting when they are coat changing.
It depends on the activities too that an OES does as to wether you have them in a puppy clip or long coated. Long coated is a huge commitment as there is hours and hours of grooming to maintain a full coat and they still need a trim here and there as there coat does not stop growing. One of mine with the belly coat nearly hitting the ground as she has not had a trim for awhile. 
They do not shed/malt like other breeds of dogs, but you do get dust bunnies on the floor.
I do not clip mine off as I show them and have the time to spend with the endless hours of grooming. It all depends on your lifestyle and the time you have to commit to keeping them in long coat, the activity of the dogs too as to wether there in a nice puppy clip or full coat. Mine do not swim, they do not play in the mud, booties on when wet outside etc etc as the clean up on them can take forever.
Most professional grooming parlours do not like OES coming in, there is a time committment and dollars at stake for them to not spend time on de-matting an OES, most will shave off and just bath them etc and most do not know how to layer groom an OES down to skin level properly, so you need to learn from someone if you want a full coat on the dog.
There all still a lovely breed of dog either way, you can learn to strip out the undercoat (they have a double coat) for that long look but without the matting problems and endless hours of grooming it. This is my old girl, she is 12 and now she is finished in the showring, her undercoat is all gone but she still has the long coat look without the long time grooming her, she takes about 1-2 hours to groom through now once a week, depending on what she has been up too through the week
In short coat or long coat there all still sheepie and a wonderful family dog. I would rather see an OES in a short coat then one matted and clumped to the skin through neglect. If I had an outdoorsie, adventure one, well definately a puppy clip on that one as easier to maintain then. |
| Another thing to consider as was mentioned in another
post - OES were traditionally sheared with the sheep. In case you don't know their fur grows back really fast too. I usually shave mine down once a year and they are pretty long by the time I shave again. Some grow out faster than others, but I don't think golden's grow out quite as fast.
If you are interested in OES it's good to know up front what grooming is required either way. I know there have been more than a few who were totally overwhelmed by the grooming involved. Short coats are great too - it's like getting a whole new dog once a year, they look so different! Shellie |
| My preference is for short. In the winter I do let Tasker's coat grow for warmth but as soon asn the snow is gone so is the hair. Clipping takes a bit of prctice but it isn't hard and the good news is, HAIR GROWS!!!
I will report that although conventional wisdom tells you that OES don't shed, MINE DOES TERRIBLY. I don't have any idea why and the Vet just shrugs his shoulders but Tasker does shed large amounts of hair in the winter and spring. So once his hair gets a certain length it becomes VERY labor intensive to both brush and clean up. So we stick with short. It is a matter of personal preference and you will find both "styles" here. A sheepie in full coat is very time consuming and years ago I did keep his coat longer but now life is too busy so clipped he is. |
| I prefer the puppy cut. I like the long shaggy dog look but I just don't have the patience for it. Edgar is always seeming to get poop stuck in his fur (when it's longer) and since I wash him regularly (he's a stinky boy) the longer the hair gets the longer it takes to bath him. That and he tends to get more mats. So for me the shorter look is best. He still has the fuzzy cute look which I love and not near the amount of work. |
Quote: Honestly, the coat on an animal is like their crowning adornment and what sets them apart from other breeds. I would never have shorn my golden's beautiful coat off, but I see many pics of OES's that have been. Is this because it is just too hard to take care of so therefore most people don't bother? Just looking for some real opinions. TIA
The crowning adornment to OES's is their personality- they are always smiling and ready for fun, plus they have an amazing sense of humor. To maintain the long cut takes a daily commitment to grooming, plus a climate that allows it. We keep our girls in a 1 inch "puppy cut" year round. |
| Thanks for all your honest opinions. Admittedly, we have a very busy life with 6 kids and all the schedules that go with it. We have a special needs son (autism spectrum) that also consumes my time, but I am also looking for a breed that will compliment him and be theraputic- in a sense. The OES seems like a great family pet but somewhat more maintainence than a golden. For those of you that have had goldens and OES, which would probably be best for our style of family? I would feel terrible to make a decision based on my heart only to find out it isn't fair to the wonderful sheepie.
Mary Beth |
Anonymous wrote: Thanks for all your honest opinions. Admittedly, we have a very busy life with 6 kids and all the schedules that go with it. We have a special needs son (autism spectrum) that also consumes my time, but I am also looking for a breed that will compliment him and be theraputic- in a sense. The OES seems like a great family pet but somewhat more maintainence than a golden. For those of you that have had goldens and OES, which would probably be best for our style of family? I would feel terrible to make a decision based on my heart only to find out it isn't fair to the wonderful sheepie.
Mary Beth To say that an OES is "somewhat more maintenance" than a golden is a huge understatement, lol. Nita was correct in saying that just a full brush out can take 4 to 5 hours in full coat. I strip the undercoat on my boy and I still do about half an hour of brushing a day. Especially during coat changes, if you miss one day, the whole thing's a huge mess! If you keep them short, it's another story but the hair does grow about an inch a month and will require a lot of upkeep to keep at a certain length. That being said about grooming, and the needs that you've expressed, I'd be concerned about an OES puppy with young children. Don't get me wrong, they're wonderful dogs but they're big and strong and like to herd things. They can be crazy nippers and when they jump on you, they're big and heavy and can knock little ones down. In training an OES, you aren't going to get the kind of blind obedience that you'll get from a golden. You tell a golden to sit and stay and he'll do it without even thinking twice. An OES will look for a reason for doing it and then, maybe he will if he thinks it's appropriate! I'm a strong believer that any dog can be trained but, the bigger question is, do you have the time and effort to devote to it? How will your kids take to being nipped and herded? Will your special needs son be able to deal with a really rambunctious puppy that will grow into a rambunctious dog that really doesn't stop being a puppy until they're about 3? I think it's very smart of you to weigh your options and share your concerns here. Good luck in your decision! |
| I have two OES and a son with Autism (High functioning) and a 2 yr old Daughter.
Our male was 10 months old when we rescued him and Rags was 2 years old when we got her. Both are wonderful with my son. Pepsi is very protective of him. Rags follows my son around everywhere and is his best friend. But I have never had an OES puppy around him, so I cannot comment on that. If kept in short coat maintaining the coat is easy. Just a brush through the coat once a day...if it's long enough. If you don't like dog hair all over everything you own, I would go for the OES. They also have the most wonderful personalities. I love Goldens, but HATE dog hair all over my house... so I'll stick with OES.  |
| I am not so sure that a golden puppy would be much different than an OES puppy around young children. All puppies teethe--on anything and anybody they can! Puppies also jump. Goldens, being a larger breed, will likely be able to knock down small children as well as an OES.
However, OES do have herding instincts, some more than others. With only 1 of my four have I had much trouble training not to chase bicyclists and skateboarders. Archie just loves to run and looks for any excuse. Both Archie and Merlin had to be taught not to nip at heels of running--anybody, really. It's just that kids run more. No serious incidents, ever. Sophie and Sherman, littermates now 16 months old, have never nipped at any running child, ever. Sophie, who has dominance issues, will willingly allow a small child to lead her all over the place, behaving absolutely perfectly. My OES have always been wonderful with children. My first two were around for my mother, who had suffered from a stroke many years before and was very unsteady on her feet, among other issues. I used to worry that she would startle one of the dogs, or they would trip her, but they were both wonderful--stayed out of her way when she was on the move, yet would lay close by so she could pet them; played gently with her. I have never raised a golden, but I've had them as neighbors, and considered getting one when we got our first puppy, but did not because of the hair/dander issues. I love the personalities of goldens, and have always found them to be wonderful around people of all ages. The ones I've known have been quieter, personality wise, than my OES. But again, I haven't raised a golden or lived with one, so I can't offer that sort of insight. OES do require a lot of grooming, which can be reduced by keeping them clipped into a shorter coat and they also require a lot of social contact with their people. These are not dogs who do well if they are shut out in the yard or in a crate away from their family. Expect an OES to follow you everywhere and to want to stay physically attached, as much as possible. They are referred to as velcro dogs around here. An exercised OES is a good OES. You would be foolish not to enroll in good puppy classes, minimum. If you can handle this sort of time commitment, I think you'll find an OES to be a wonderful addition to your family. However, if you need a low maintenance dog, this is not the breed for you. |
| The suggestions have been wonderful so far - and you are obviously doing a great thing by really researching. Perhaps the best thing you could do now is to have an OES brought to your house to meet your family. See how they interact - get to know a bit of the clown-like, bumpy personality that OES have. For me, I love it. Every day I see Bingley do something in his nature that just makes me grin.
My Bingley is a LOT of upkeep, but he is in full coat, and in the first of his coat transitions. I groom him out completely every other day for about 2 hours at a time. Not including any scissoring. It's a lot of work, but as others have said, if you fall in love with a Bobtail's personlity than you can keep them in short coat without the contiunal hours of maintenance. When Bingley was a puppy he was crazy - insane - actually! BUT all puppies are. Maybe you could even consider an adult rescue? |
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