So frustrated...sheepie out of control when visitors come
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SCSheepie wrote: I know I just need to spend the time training her when people arrive, but it's hard to manage. Anybody been through this?
Yup! You have described my 2.5 year old Maggie to a T. I have had a really hard time with Maggie and so I tend to crate her in advance when I know someone is coming over then I let her out when she settles down (takes about 30 minutes). I have her crate far enough away that I can just ignore her if she barks in there. That works for planned guests but not for unexpected people. I have heard about alot of training strategies but they all seem hard to implement. I am told the key is to get someone to practice with you so that they know what you want when actual guests come. Most of my friends are unable to follow my intructions (don't pet her til she sits, pet her when she sits) so I have a trainer coming today to work with us on exactly this issue. Strategies include: 1. ignore them, turning backs and walk away, until they settle down then praise and pet and treat. 2. keep them on a leash in the house and when you open the door, let them out and guest in, closing door on the leash (acting crazy gets you on the wrong side of the action). 3. When someone comes to the door, crate or tether the dog until she is calm. I have a hook in my living room for this purpose. She does the same thing when she wants to greet people or dogs on a walk and when she starts to lunge, I turn and change directions. We've just started that. The idea is that it will sink in that when she lunges, she does not get to greet. We'll see. At least going a different direction turns off the crazies. I will be very curious if this training can make any headway with her. I will let you know. |
| thanks for your suggestions - i'll try them! |
my 12 year old did that till she was like 8 .. tryed all of the above the only thing thant worked as i had a soda can at the door and told all visitors to grab it before they came into the house when daytona jumped got crazy they shake the can with coins in it, and it seemed to help put her back into reality.. to this day she hates soda..  |
| ravenmoonart will tell you I just sit on my dog.
Sounds crazy but.... the problem is she's too excited. I've put a leash on her. I've told her NO BARKING. I've told guests to ignore her. She'd bark her head off in a crate and viciously. I've had my husband ring the doorbell as practice. Nothing was working, so for us I found if I just plop right down over her (just legs over her), she not only stops barking but she's the calmest dog ever. Then when everyone has sit down, I slowly let her go in short spurts until she's settled.
The garage works too for us but that's downstairs, so it's harder for her to hear things. |
| According to the trainers I've spoken to about this, it is important for the dog to learn that his behavior is not accomplishing what he wants and seek to offer a different behavior. If you can ignore them or keep them tethered, they will eventually try something else and then you can approach and reward with proximity, petting, etc. I do this when I come home -- Maggie jumps at the door and I want. Eventually she sits and I open the door. If she pops up, I close it again. I don't come in until she is sitting and waiting for me. |
| We usually put the three in their room when people come over. They are let out individually, about 10 minutes apart. That give them a few minutes for special attention before the new one comes out. We also release them in order of age/ability to control behavior (same thing). Oldest/best behaved first.
They have to "Sit for Attention." Once they are sitting, they get lots of lovin'. They are very good at this, however 250 lbs of dogs trying to sit for attention can be overwhelming to a guest. When we move next year, I plan to put the hooks on the baseboard - after I measure their leashes.  |
| Yes, Fred goes nuts too. You are not alone. What works best for me is putting him in my bedroom in advance of company arriving. I lock the door, make sure there aren't alternatives for him to make trouble and put on the ceiling fan. He usually doesn't bark in my room.
His crate is in the family room but, my DD(age 2) lets him out of the crate no matter what I say. Crating him does not work for me with company. 
We have tried ignoring him when he gets overexcited, which he does at night when my husband arrives home. I think this strategy probably works best with smaller dogs. It is tough to ignore an 80lb dog jumping at you. Whatever you do, don't think your dog is a bad dog because she is excitable. I keep seeing people on Cesar Milan with hyper dogs and they clearly aren't problem dogs. OES are a hyper breed. |
Joahaeyo wrote: I just sit on my dog. That sounds a LOT like the heavy vest thing I've read about once or twice.Sounds crazy but.... |
Ron wrote: Joahaeyo wrote: I just sit on my dog. That sounds a LOT like the heavy vest thing I've read about once or twice.Sounds crazy but.... what's the heavy vest thing? |
| Wow, thank you all so much for your help...I already feel better knowing I am not alone in this. Sophie is such a sweetie and I know she isn't trying to be bad and I need to be patient with her - I just got so ovewhelmed with her today. I am definitely going to try your suggestions! |
| Well take relief in knowing that I get overwhelmed regularly with Yuki, and I'm sure you have it worse since you have an infant in the house. Pray you don't get lots of gifts mailed to you during Christmas b/c my "through the roof" moments occur when the postman/fedex/etc have to come to the door and my guy is sleeping. |
| It is very similar in style to the neon orange vests worn by road constuction crews. It has a set amount of weight (age and size dependent) sewn into the vest. We have them for our autistic kids to use if they are struggling to stay in control - particularly in unfamilar situations which are very difficult for them. They transition to a lightweight (even empty) backpack and get the same calming effect.
We have theorized that it feels like a hug?!? |
| Then that would probably describe it! Ravenmoonart kept telling me Yuki looked like a smooshed pancaked.
she really is relaxed though and very calm when I do it. When someone came to evaluate lil J (how he is progressing), they would stay for an hour, and she would lay under my legs and fall asleep (no force on my part). The lady kept saying how calm she was... I laughed since she had no clue. |
Some dogs (like Mrs. J's  ) respond differently, but
in general I think ignoring the dog, and telling your guests to do this as well has worked best for me. No eye contact, no touches, no talking to the dog, till they calm down. If they start to get excited go back to the beginning and start again. If you remove them from the area and don't allow them in until they calm down, they will calm quicker too. The worst thing we did when this started was to try and calm our dogs. I think this really reinforces the behavior and they think it's what you want. At 2 years old she probably has a lot of puppy energy left too. That will lessen a bit with time. Good luck. Shellie |
| You are definitely not alone
Bailey is fine when anyone comes in the back door or garage door. The front door makes him crazy. Our best bet is to have him in the backyard when people arrive. As time goes on, the elapsed calm-down time is getting better, but it's still embarrassing. I also take away all of his toys before company comes over. Somehow, the toys make him crazier. He likes to grab his drooly toys and accost the guests with them. Or he leaps madly around hoping that the guests will chase him and try to grab his toys. It never works, but he keeps trying, so the toys are locked away. |
| Well, we had our first lesson and went through the laundry list of methods for controlling the situation.
He suggested that I do several practice sessions a day where I ring the doorbell and then take her to her nearby dog bed and give her a treat. The idea is that she will learn to go to her bed when the doorbell rings. I am also supposed to ring the bell whenever I come in the door (when she is loose -- just for brief outings) and do the same thing. He says I need to ring the doorbell alot to densensitize the experience for her. When she is calm on the bed, then I can release her. Hopefully she will have settled down. If not, I take her back to the bed. I am not exactly sure when in that process I am able to actually answer the door and let someone in. I think I will still need to use the tether hook and then let her go when she settles down. Then I am supposed to practice with friends that I have coached. Eventually, she should develop habits that will work even with strangers at the door. Of course, naughty Maggie was sooo good for the trainer. Barked once and then calmed down immediately. Did not jump up. Sat next to him for petting. Leaned into him! (Maggie is generally a wiggler but not a leaner). Looked eagerly for praise with a big goofy grin on her face. Right after the trainer left, two people came to the door and all hell broke loose. Chum came running and barking. Maggie was jumping and barking. I tethered both of them while they barked away. It was classic. |
| Val - I am sure Maggie sensed the different energy from the trainer, compared to your guests.
I find the same thing when people have me approach their happily jumping dogs. In my head, I expect them to sit, be calm and behave. I get a very different response from the dogs than most other people. Another person may be all fluttery, nervous and wave their hands in the air. This just feeds the out of control energy. If you can have them be calm, keep the hands down and be non-reactive to the behavior, it should help. |
got sheep wrote: Val - I am sure Maggie sensed the different energy from the trainer, compared to your guests.
I find the same thing when people have me approach their happily jumping dogs. In my head, I expect them to sit, be calm and behave. I get a very different response from the dogs than most other people. Another person may be all fluttery, nervous and wave their hands in the air. This just feeds the out of control energy. If you can have them be calm, keep the hands down and be non-reactive to the behavior, it should help. That's exactly the problem. I've written about it before. My friends either get very agitated and keep telling them to "quiet" or they cannot keep their hands off a wiggling Maggie or demanding Chum. I am hoping for Maggie, at least, to learn what behavior I want from her so that she responds appropriately even if my friends are completely undermining my goals. I've tried and tried and tried to train the people. I think it might be easier to train the dogs. |
Valerie wrote: I am not exactly sure when in that process I am able to actually answer the door and let someone in. I think I will still need to use the tether hook and then let her go when she settles down.
If I may??? What you do is reward her with a treat when she is actually on her bed. Then once she connects the doorbell cue to the bed to will run to her bed when the doorbell rings and wait there for her treat. When she does that reliably you can delay the treat delivery for a few seconds. Then gradually a bit longer. Once she is sitting there, waiting for 20 seconds or so (built up gradually) you can start movements towards the door BEFORE she gets her treat. You will want to back up a bit, and introduce a small movement to the door and then a treat within 5 seconds or so. Then work up both together. What you are working towards is her going to her bed, wait for her treat, even up to a minute or so, and then be released. This gives you time to answer the door etc. Just don't forget her and her treat!! |
Bosley's mom wrote: If I may???
Yes please! That all makes sense. . . . except when do I get to answer the door and let the person in? She has no ability to stay put on her own and there is no treat more valuable than seeing who the heck wants to come in. I'm completely serious -- if I am having her wait to get the treat, what is the person at the door doing? Or are you talking about during practice sessions only? Because I cannot answer the door with my flying sheepie on the loose. And I am not sure there is any treat worth waiting for for Maggie. |
| Oh I know what you mean Val, Dutch is a royal pain when someone comes knocking , now I just close the gate so she can't get to the front door or if they are visitors I grab her and put her in her crate and after about 5/10 min I can let her out and she is somewhat calmed down. Had some visitors today that said they can see a big improvement in her so I'm hoping LOL. I also make her sit and stay when I open the gate no matter which side of the gate I am on and that seems to be helping altho we are still along way from her having company manners |
| Yeah, I do those same things. . . Oh except I don't have place for a baby gate here.
I am not giving up. It is just much harder in real life than the practice session. |
Valerie wrote: That all makes sense. . . . except when do I get to answer the door and let the person in? She has no ability to stay put on her own and there is no treat more valuable than seeing who the heck wants to come in. Think of your final goal. It might look something like this: Doorbell rings. Maggie runs to her bed and lays down. Val goes to open door and let guest in. Val goes to Maggie's bed, gives her a treat and she is released. So you need to break it into pieces, and work on them one by one. You cannot progress to the next step until the first one is solid. The first one is "the doorbell rings and Maggie goes to her bed". That needs to be worked on over and over and over until the ringing of the doorbell means "run to my bed" to Maggie. Then you proof it by perhaps while she is waiting you actually open the door (with noone there of cource). Do not try this until you are 99% sure that she will not move. Then you can move to the next step. Valerie wrote: if I am having her wait to get the treat, what is the person at the door doing? Or are you talking about during practice sessions only? This is practice, only. Until you are sure she is steady and will not bolt, you should tether or crate or whatever whenever you are expecting someone, who is NOT your training assistant. It is very important to NOT allow the behavior to continue. It is very rewarding to her, so she needs to forgot how fun it is to run and bowl someone over. This is called "extingushing the behavior". Simply do not allow it to occur at all. Then you build up to her being immune to what is happening on the other side of the door. It is not fun anymore, as if she stays put she gets a treat. Make the treat VERY special, that she does not ordinarily get. When you practise with someone, be sure that you give them very distinct instructions. First few times all they do is ring, you open and then close the door (with them remaining outside). Then you treat Maggie. You may be surprised at how Maggie will respond. She will be so used to going to her bed, that it will become like Pavlov's dog. She will do it without even thinking. Valerie wrote: Because I cannot answer the door with my flying sheepie on the loose. And I am not sure there is any treat worth waiting for for Maggie. You are very correct. She cannot be allowed to greet like that anymore. What I did when training one of my dogs is put a BIG note on my front door. "If I am not expecting you, please do not knock on my door. Call me at (your phone number) for direction." That helped deter door-to-door canvasers...LOL Also a note "Please ignore my dogs when you enter. No eye contact, treats, patting, nothing." Once she is going to her bed by herself I would be inclined to put it on cue like "go to your bed" or something like that. Then you can use it for other times, too. Yes, practice and training and setting up sessions is very difficult to do in real life. Sometimes it is practically impossible,so we improvise with what we have. But the effort that is put into it up front is well worth it...when you have a result that you can be proud of. Good luck! |
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