High White Count
The Vet mentioned all sorts of terrible possibilites, all of which have been ruled out. His urine micro albumin is slightly high indicating the start of some liver issues but not abnormal for a dog his age. The only thing we have found is a very high white count. The Vet called me last night and wants to start Tasker on 14 days of Clavamox, a strong antibiotic. He is thinking kidney infection. I don't understand how that can be....... Tasker is not peeing any more than normal has no sign of incontinence and does not appear to be ill. Does that make any sense to anyone? The other thing the vet recommended was that I have Tasker's teeth cleaned. He has a significant amount of tarter and he thinks that might be putting bacteria into his system. We could do a deep cleaning on his ear (the one that always gets infected at the same time). I experessed concern over anesthesia and a dog his age but the Vet seemed to think he would be fine, the same Vet who voiced concern over anesthesia and age a year ago when we were talking about the ear. Maybe he feels this is more pressing. Sorry this is so long but I have a couple questions..... Has anyone experienced a kidney infection (dog  ) without any signs or sypmtoms? And, on Friday nights when I am on ambulance duty I leave Tasker at home. This means he is in the house for about 13 hours. He has never seemed overly anxious to empty his bladder when I got home but I wondered if that would contribute to the bladder infection. I am going to ask the Vet but that didn't occur to me til last night and I won't get to speak with the Vet til next week.
MY THEORY on the weight loss is that it was a year ago that we switched from Lamb & Rice food to a Salmon based food. He has been getting the same volume of food but I suspect the Salmon is lower in carbs and calories. So I've started a morning feeding with an additional scoop. But that doesn't explain the high white count. |
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| I don't have anything to add about his high white count or possible infection. But I do know that since taking my dogs OFF salmon and on to puppy food (chicken) all have gained weight with the same amount of food fed per day. Avalon gained 15 pounds in 4 months....but the vet didn't think anything wrong with that.(all mine were a bit underweight on the salmon food) So to me.....Tasker loosing weight going from lamb to salmon makes sense.
Hugs for Tasker from all of us  |
| When you say very high, how high is it? The reason I ask is that some doctor scared my niece by mentioning leukemia when her white was so high - turns out it was 17,000 and she just normally runs high. So is it borderline high or blood clogging high?
Did they do the bloodwork in the office or send it out? Did they look at the slides (looking for clumping which would indicate a higher WBC than the the number indicates)? Done elsewhere leaves open the posible for a handling or lab error. I would want a second CBC done before I do anything beyond antibiotics. A chronic infection could cause a slightly high WBC with nothing obvious to us. Any change in the way Tasker feels could have been so gradual and not too painful, so that he just figured this was normal. That happens with kids a lot. Good luck! |
| You might contact the dog food company or companies to find out the number of calories per cup in both foods then do the calculations. This will give you a quick answer as to whether it might be the cause for his weight loss. Some companies offer this info online too but I couldn't find it on the Purina One website (they're closed for the holiday).
We keep Panda slim because of her bad hips. When we switched from Hill's Prescription Diet c/d to Eagle pack we found she had lost a few pounds. On an already skinny dog, this is very noticeable. I called Hills and Eagle pack to get the calorie count and found there was a big difference in calories so we had to boost the amount we feed her by 1/3 or 1/2 (I can't remember which) to reach the same calorie count. Quote: the same Vet who voiced concern over anesthesia and age a year ago when we were talking about the ear. Maybe he feels this is more pressing.
Maybe he needs to eliminate the teeth and ear conditions as a possible cause of the elevated white count? Could it be up because of these? If Tasker does go in to get his ears and teeth taken care of, these antibiotics prior to and after teeth cleaning will protect him from other problems. http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... cleid=1169 I know you worry about the anesthesia... I do every time one of mine goes in I do too.  |
| I am glad all the really bad stuff has been ruled out. It sounds like you've got a good explanation for the weight loss. I don't really have any insight to share re Tasker's high white count but I have lots of sympathy for the worries we face with our older pets. I hope you get the answers you need. . . |
| I can chime in with the teeth issue.
My basset Simon was getting bad breath. He is a therapy dog, so this is not good. I just had his teeth cleaned in July 2005 when I got him, at age 6 yrs. His teeth didn't look too bad this spring, but I scheduled the dental anyway. He had it done in May. Imagine my surprise when they found several bad teeth, one molar with the nerves exposed and needed to pull a total of 6 teeth. He normally maintains a steady weight of 48-51 lbs. When I took him in for his dental he weighed 41 lbs! He has now regained the weight and is back to normal. His activity level also has perked up - I noticed that after about a week. I feel bad now. My dog was slowly getting sicker and sicker and could have died from those bad teeth. And I didn't even know it was happening. I just thought age was catching up with him, causing him to slow down.
Oh, and he had a blood workup about 2 months before the dental, and all were WNL at that time. And he was still at the 50 lb mark then too. |
| I would agree with the clavamox since he has a high white count, there is an infection somewhere...
Whether or not it's the kidneys, well I would think that would show up in a urinalysis? I'd be leary of anesthesia too, especially since he is not well right now to begin with... I'd try antibiotics first, see if he gains weight and if his white count goes down. |
| Hi Ginnie,
I too am always afraid of anesetics as my boys age but perhaps you can get a second opinion? I always pay to have the extras which means more monitoring during any procedure but Panda was only 7 at the time and I understand your concern with Taskers age. I wish I could offer more help but just wanted you to know, we're thinking of you.
Marianne and the boys |
| Our lab at age 13 had laryngeal paralysis and needed emergency surgery. He survived the surgery well, but has since had to be euthanized because of immobility. I understand your concerns about anesthesia at this age, but as with 2 legger's, technology and pharmacology has improved. |
Willowsprite wrote: I would agree with the clavamox since he has a high white count, there is an infection somewhere...
Whether or not it's the kidneys, well I would think that would show up in a urinalysis? I'd be leary of anesthesia too, especially since he is not well right now to begin with... I'd try antibiotics first, see if he gains weight and if his white count goes down. The UA showed high white count as well. We won't do the teeth til he's done with the clavamox. Marianne, I know what you mean about the "extras" they add $200. to the cost of the procedure but I can't imagine not doing them. Funny how with animals monitoring an EKG is considered "extra" |
| When Ben had his surgeries for the obstructions, it wasn't even an option - it was part of their basic care. They had a pulse ox on one leg, an IV in another, EKG monitoring and more. Not only did he have his shaved surgical, IV and monitoring areas, he had a huge shaved area on each hip for his Fentanyl patches. And it took forever for the hair to grow back.
We had to schedule a time to come in and see him, but they had a limited number of exam rooms - and they made sure to time his meds so he looked and felt good when we came in. Worth every cent, IMO. |
| Hope the anti-biotics kick in and help.
Having problems with the teeth in older age, like a build up of Tartar, infection in the gum line, can lead to kidney problems etc. If the white cell count does not go down after using the clavamox then he might need the teeth done. The vet can then check the gum lines etc for any infection coming from there as well as check the teeth for any rotten ones etc, that might be affecting his system. If needed maybe talk to the vet about a heavy sedation rather then having him completely knocked out. They also should run a blood profile firstly with any senior to see if he is able to take an anesthesia or heavy sedation. |
lisaoes wrote: If needed maybe talk to the vet about a heavy sedation rather then having him completely knocked out. They also should run a blood profile firstly with any senior to see if he is able to take an anesthesia or heavy sedation.
Thanks! We did talk about that briefly. Unfortunately Tasker isn't a very good patient so he wasn't to confident that we'd could do that. If I do take him in we are going to get EVERYTHING that needs to be done done at once (in addition to teeth and ears he has a warty tumor in his good ear and a lipoma that has grown significantly over the last six months) so anesthesia might be a better option. I am still wondering though if the leaving him alone for 13 hours could contribute to the kidney infection..... I'm wondering if having a full bladder to long can cause a problem. Tasker is one of those dogs that wouln't piddle in the house if his life depended on it! |
Well if he is going under for the works, just make sure you ask for the blood profile firstly. That will give you more confidence then with the anesthesia, and will also help you and the vet to make a decision as to wether to go ahead or not, it is not 100% but does give you and the vet an idea if he will be able to handle being under and coming out of it OK. 
I asked and had the blood profile done for Kelsey when she needed to go under at 10 years of age. I also paid extra & insisted on the more expensive anesthesia, they come out of it quicker, so also talk to the vet about the different anesthesias that are used & what would be the better one for Tasker. 
Gee people talk about how much care and management they are as youngsters, but it goes in a full circle when they are into the senior years too. Hope all goes well and the outcome is all good, I always worry about the darling golden oldies and the extra special care they need then. Hope he puts on some weight too, geez mine are always on a diet then elderly, hey eat more you need some more tubby on you now. 
Keep us posted to how tasker is doing and how he is after the course of anti-biotics. We will be thinking of you both. |
| Maybe the 13 hours did as this was the only thing different for Yuki and it was followed by an infection and UTIs. For Yuki, she just refused to pee on her normal schedule. She'd hold it for 8-9 hr stretches each time. I thought, "Wow, maybe she's all grown up now. This is cool" since my maltese holds it for 12-14 hrs daily since she I got her. Well... ...her holding it combined with the daddy here is what the vet feels triggered it.
Anyway, I hope the antibiotics work for Tasker! That's what Yuk's was given. They did NOT work for her at first. After the 10 days, she still had an infection. Was placed on it AGAIN, and now she seems all better. |
| No words of wisdom here, but I am thinking of you & hoping the antibiotics make the difference for Tasker. |
| to Tasker! |
| I hope the antibiotics help Tasker. Sending big hugs to you and Tasker. |
I hope Tasker is feeling better today.  Poor guy! Gentle belly rubs to him, and extra hugs for you! |
| I'm having the hard time with the same decision here as well with Rosie. She is 14. Her teeth are horrible, but I just cannot seem to come to the conclusion of knocking her out at this age for teeth cleaning. She has good and bad days. 6 months ago if you asked me if she would be here today i would have said no.
yesterday she gobbled up her food, tonight she is just looking at it...... She has been through so much in her life, i just cannot do this to her again. Ali |
| Just wanted to say I'm hoping and praying that Tasker will be fine |
| I have our Tazz with severe CHF and cardiomegaly. He needs a dental, but the anesthesia would be permanent. So, we just live with the foul breath and nasty teeth and hope for the best. Same thing here with the eating - some days he eats, some days he looks at it. He is happy in general, so we just keep going. |
| Thanks everyone. We did see another Vet yesterday for a second opinion and he agreed with my Vet that the cleaning would be a good idea. Tasker now has another raging ear infection (wwhich started after he started the Clavamox ) so it will be a good opportunity to get his ears cleaned out as well.
He is pretty healthy considering his age, the second Vet could not believe he was almost 12. So I look at this as an opportunity to keep him healthy! We won't have the teeth and ears done until he is done withthe Clavamox and we've done another round of blood work so I suspect it will be the week after next. |
Yey Tasker!!! Glad to hear that he is doing better! Not bad for an old ''ish'' man 
Give him a hug from me!! |
| Hello there. Just how high was his WBC count? They say about 16,000 is normal for dogs, but I myself have just learned quite a lot of new information. My dog was panting alot, couldn't get in and out of the truck and not eating. I took him in and his WBC count was 232,000. Doc said it was leukemia. Anything between 100,000 and 300,000 suggests leukemia. She didn't actually test for it though. The definitive testing is to have a bone marrow aspiration or needle extraction to test the marrow itself. She didn't think that was neccessary as she was confident in her decision. She gave me only three options. 1. they can take care of him there, 2. I can have him cremated, or 3. I can bury him. No matter what, the end result in her mind was death. No treatment. "WHAT???? This is my baby! H ehas been with me for 12 years and goes everywhere with me, and is always by my side. I will felt just as terrible as if they had told me this about my 6 year old daughter". He has being seeing this vet all of his life, and while I trust and respect her, There was NO WAY I could make such a decision without being 150% sure it was the right one. So I took him to a Vet Hospital to some specialist a week later.....................they told me his WBC count was now 324,700. He was doing terrible and to be honest, the only reason to keep him going would have been for my own selfishness. So, I didn't even wait for that vet to call me back later with the pathology report. I called Cannons vet immed. and made arrangements. She came to my grandmother's house, and my whole family was there. She gave him a sedative, and then the OTHER needle. It is by far the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life to date. And I miss him terribly!!! But you know, if his count jumped about 100,000 in one week, with 88% of the cells reading abnormal.......he was really suffering much more on the inside than his pride would show on the outside. He was so strong and tried to be as normal as possible, but I could not put him through that humility any longer.....I love him too much!
Anyway, depending on the WBC count, discuss this possibility with your vet. My baby had Accute Leukemia which (and trust me, I have done ALL the research) really isn't treatable. Some may be desperate to try, but it only makes the dog sicker at the time and may only give him a few more weeks. If it is chronic or another form of cancer, treatment will have a more positive turnout. They say it can add up to a year to the dogs life, but I have read articles from other pet owners that said their dog had 3 more wonderful years........I believe, that if he could, Cannon would have fought it. He was so strong and loving. But this was just far too much for him. May he rest in peace. "A heart of gold stopped beating Two shining eyes at rest God broke my heart to prove to me He only takes the best I know you had to leave me But you did not go alone A part of me went with you They day he took you home" |
| Sorry that I missed this post and to hear about Tasker's WBC. How is he doing with the Clavamox? |
| I must have missed this. How is Tasker??? |
| Thanks Folks, Tasker is very good for an old guy. This post is from LAST year. We did have a problem with a chronic UTI infection for a couple months but antibiotics cleared it up. He was also diagnosed with the start of diabetes but we've had his blood glucose checked every few months and it remains boarderline so we are just keeping a close eye on it.
As a post script, we did end up having a dental done AND a deep cleaning of his ears under anesthesia last fall. The Vet thought the high white count could have been from either source. His ears have been great, I swear he hears better and he's had one very minor ear infection since ( he used to have them about every 6 weeks). |
| Yay for Tasker! I am glad he is doing so well. |
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