Sheepdog aggression (Stella munched on my Bichon!!)
Anyway, Stella has never been aggressive towards Brooklyn (the Bichon), but typically herds her under the kitchen table and circles the table to keep her penned under there, lol. Well, recently Brooklyn has developed some territory aggression... she'll growl at Stella if she is sitting near her food bowl and Stella walks too close. Until about 2 weeks ago, Stella has ignored her. But 2 weeks ago, when Brooklyn growled at Stella, Stella picked her up in her mouth and chomped down and shook her. Brooklyn had two puncture wounds (though they appeared to be superficial), and she was pretty scared, but other than that she seemed OK. Last night after taking Stella for a long walk (with the Gentle Leader!!!), I tried to hold Brooklyn and let Stella sniff at her. She seemed fine at first, but then she sort of nudged her very firmly twice with her snout. She then had a pouncing stance, so I put Brooklyn in her crate. Any suggestions on how to get these girls to get along? As a P.S., I was chatting with Ron last night, and told him that Stella had been left outside a few weeks ago. That was the day whe was left outside... I put her in the back yard after she bit Brooklyn, and we took Brooklyn to the vet. We were gone for a couple of hours, and when we returned we realized she had been in the back yard the whole time (I thought my son had brought her back in and crated her). She is typically not outside except for her daily playtime, ot if I walk her, so I really need the dogs to be able to get along in the house. |
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| I don't really have any answers, but a couple of questions...
When Stella bit Brooklyn, did Brooklyn cry or make any sounds to let Stella know that she was hurting her? Do you know Stella's history? Where was she before you got her? Did she have other dogs to play with? How long was she left with her mother as a pup? (Sorry if you said that elsewhere, and I just don't remember) Just thinking outloud.. I wonder if Stella wasn't really taught how to play / how hard to bite? I know (now) that we got Callie too early as a puppy (6 weeks), and she hadn't really learned bite inhibition yet. She's much better about that now, though. She plays pretty rough with our pug Lambda, but Lambda lets her know when she is being too rough. I think sometimes Sheepies just don't realize their size... What did the vet say about Brooklyn? Is she okay? |
| As the owner of a large dog/small dog combination I will tell you how I handle things. Ty is a 5lb maltese and Tasker is a 97lb sheep dog.
I NEVER leave them alone together. If I am leaving the house for even a few minutes to get the mail they are in seperate rooms or one is in a crate. Neither dog is ever allowed to growl at the other. If during play growling starts then I seperate them immediately. Ty is the Alpha dog and Tasker submissive, Ty would boss and growl at Tasker if allowed. I feed them in seperate areas and as soon as they are done eating the bowl is removed, one dog is not allowed near the other dogs food or bowl. There is no food aggression because they never eat near each other. If treats are given they must eat sit seperately and quietly before being given a treat. Brooklyn is now defensive and afraid and it will take time for her to trust Stella again. My suggestion is to keep them apart, reintroduce them for short periods with close supervision. If I am holding Ty and Tasker approaches Ty will occassionally get territorial and growl. I immediately use the Cesar Milan SHHHHT with a one finger poke and Ty either backs off or goes to his crate. Tasker is also reprimanded if I am petting him and he growls at Ty. Tasker and Ty get along famously, they play and romp and have a great time but ALWAYS with me within arms reach. As soon as play escalates to aggression on either side itis immediately stopped. When you have a great disparity in size in dogs you must be ever vigalant. They are animals and when they feel threatened their first instinct is to lash out. A big dog can kill a small in a matter of seconds without even meaning to. By being very strict with what behavior is acceptable and NEVER leaving them unattended alone together we have a calm happy house 99.9% of the time. Those moments that get out of hand are quickly brought back under control. |
| Thanks for your replies. Here's Stella's history... I spent most of this afternoon trying to get more information.
Stella was born Jan 20, 2006. I am not sure when she was weaned, but she was bought from PassPets Pet Store (not by me), in Lafayette, IN. in the end of April (I left the paper at my office, and can't remember the exact date) by a man named R.H. The breeders name was listed as Meeno Graber, but I couldn't find a listing for that name anywhere. There was an address listed on the paper in Michigan, but I can't tell if that was the breeder's address or what. Anyway, I was searching for a puppy (an OES specifically) and in October of 2006, I found one listed on the Lilly classifieds. It was Stella. Upon calling I was told they were moving to a smaller place, and she was just too big. They said she was 4 months old. They lived in a smalll town outside of Indianapolis, so I went to go check her out. When I arrived, I thought she was rather big for a 4 month old, but the only OES dogs I had seen before were already grown, so i wasn't really sure. They said they had also owned her brother, but had already sold him to someone else. She was very hyper and very matted, and I was handed her along with a bag that had her paperwork in it. They said her registration papers had not been mailed to them yet, and they they would forward them to me when they got them. I took her to the groomer right away, and the groomer had to completely shave all her hair, and said the mats were horrible. They also said she was in heat, so I dug out the papers they had given me, and realized she was definitely NOT 4 months old. My guess is that the only other dogs she had been around as a puppy was her brother. I think she was kept outside a lot, and she was never taken to puppy manners or anything like that. I tried to call the people I bought her from the next day, and they never returned any of my calls. Whan I was talking to Ron last night on here, I went and dug out the papers to see if I could get any further information on her. The phone number of the people I got her from was listed, and I tried calling it again today... from my new office number, and what do you know, R.H. answered. they didn't move afterall. (I wasn't surprised). I asked if he had ever received the papers for Stella, and he said no. I called PassPets, and they said her papers have been there all this time. I thought they were AKC papers (that's what I had been told when I got her from R.H.), but they said they are APR (American Pet Registry?). (I googled it... it seems pretty shady). So now Stella is in our home FUREVER, and we love her SO much! Brooklyn is about 4 years old, and she is a very small (7 lbs) Bichon Frise (who is also a certified therapy dog and has her Good Citizen certification). We also have a 12 year old house-cat, a 6 year old outside cat (he's a hunter), and a baby lop-eared house-bunny. Stella chases the indoor cat, but when she reaches her, she doesn't attempt to hurt her. She pretty much ignores the outsie cat... he smacked her nose the first few times she got too close to him, so now they have an understanding. She hasn't met the bunny yet. Now that I have the gentle leader (I sound like a commercial for it, lol), I plan on walking ehr at least twice a day for 45 minutes or so, and I am willing to bet that within a few months, I'll have a much calmer girl on my hands. I tried to get her into training classes, but she was so hyper and not able to focus that they recommended I have a private instructor come to my home to work with her.... I'll show them!! By the Fall, I'm hoping to have her calmed down enough to take her in for obedience training, and this time, she'll be a welcome addition to the class 
I saw that someone had a thread about sensitive tummies, and Stella seems to have that. She throws up a lot, but other than that, she's very healthy. OK... that's Stella's story... gotta go, it's her walk time
As per your advice, i am not leaving the dogs alone EVER. |
IheartStella wrote: I plan on walking ehr at least twice a day for 45 minutes or so, and I am willing to bet that within a few months, I'll have a much calmer girl on my hands. I tried to get her into training classes, but she was so hyper and not able to focus that they recommended I have a private instructor come to my home to work with her.... I'll show them!! By the Fall, I'm hoping to have her calmed down enough to take her in for obedience training, and this time, she'll be a welcome addition to the class
That all sounds good. At a year and 1/2, active sheepies require lots of exercise. 2 long walks is a good start, but if you could also arrange to take her to a dog park or a doggie daycare a few times a week, that would really go a long way towards using up her extra energy. My Maggie was also superactive and it is only now that she is 2 1/2 that I am willing to brave taking her to a group training class. She was just too wild before to pay any attention. Good luck with Stella. I admire how committed you are to her. |
Valerie wrote: IheartStella wrote: I plan on walking ehr at least twice a day for 45 minutes or so, and I am willing to bet that within a few months, I'll have a much calmer girl on my hands. I tried to get her into training classes, but she was so hyper and not able to focus that they recommended I have a private instructor come to my home to work with her.... I'll show them!! By the Fall, I'm hoping to have her calmed down enough to take her in for obedience training, and this time, she'll be a welcome addition to the class That all sounds good. At a year and 1/2, active sheepies require lots of exercise. 2 long walks is a good start, but if you could also arrange to take her to a dog park or a doggie daycare a few times a week, that would really go a long way towards using up her extra energy. My Maggie was also superactive and it is only now that she is 2 1/2 that I am willing to brave taking her to a group training class. She was just too wild before to pay any attention. Good luck with Stella. I admire how committed you are to her. Thanks, I am very committed to all my kids (including the furry ones)... they're really my life. I'm a bit nervous to take Stella around other dogs yet, especially because it's hard to tell if she just wants to play or if she's being aggressive. A little dog walked by tonight and it was the only time Stella was difficult to control during her walk. I couldn't tell if she wanted to play with it or eat it, lol. She didn't growl or anything, but she lunges and then whines. I really don't think she knows her own strength. I've messaged a few people from here who live in Indiana, and I was thinking of trying to get Stella set up for some play dates, so we'll see how that goes. I love the stories on here. It's SO encouraging to read a post where someone is asking for help on a problem, and to see all the responses... and then to see follow-up messages where all the wonderful advice really worked. I wish that people who feel overwhelmed with the OES (or any dog, really) would look into forums such as this before giving up. |
| I'm sorry that you are going through this. I completely agree with Tasker's Mom's suggestions and have had a similar situation.
We had been dealing with some dominance aggression issues between our Norfolk Terrier (13 lbs. & 16 months) and our boy OES Frank (3+ years). I need to stress dominance aggression as 99% of the time they are best buds, but there were episodes where things got pretty heated, although I none have resulted in injury. Even though it is easy to assume that one is the aggressor, you have to realize is that BOTH dogs are giving off signals with their body language, so they are both at fault if something escalates. I agree that you can NEVER leave them alone. In your presence, you will start to get used to certain cues and you will need to intervene at the first sign of them. In time things will get better but only with your persistence & patience. Things are much better here, but there is a little posturing that goes on from time to time. I also do not feed the boys together. Haggis always gets fed in his crate. I wish you luck. It sounds like you are very willing to try and work out what is going on and that's half of the battle. |
VerveUp wrote: I'm sorry that you are going through this. I completely agree with Tasker's Mom's suggestions and have had a similar situation.
We had been dealing with some dominance aggression issues between our Norfolk Terrier (13 lbs. & 16 months) and our boy OES Frank (3+ years). I need to stress dominance aggression as 99% of the time they are best buds, but there were episodes where things got pretty heated, although I none have resulted in injury. Even though it is easy to assume that one is the aggressor, you have to realize is that BOTH dogs are giving off signals with their body language, so they are both at fault if something escalates. I agree that you can NEVER leave them alone. In your presence, you will start to get used to certain cues and you will need to intervene at the first sign of them. In time things will get better but only with your persistence & patience. Things are much better here, but there is a little posturing that goes on from time to time. I also do not feed the boys together. Haggis always gets fed in his crate. I wish you luck. It sounds like you are very willing to try and work out what is going on and that's half of the battle. I now have Stella tethered to me in the house any time she is not outside or in her crate, that way it's easier to get her if she lunges at Brooklyn. Tonight Brooklyn trotted across Stella's path, and Stella lunges at her, but when I yelled "leave it", she stopped and came back to my side. (With her leash attached to me she couldn't have reached her anyway. I've taught Stella "leave it" for food, and it was the first thing that popped into my head, lol. Either way, she quit. There never was any growling or anything, so I'm hoping she just wants to play.  |
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