I'm Doubting Arthritis Diagnosis for Lucy
Now that this has become such a prominent issue in our household, we watch her constantly and have realized that it just doesn't seem like only old age soreness. I think that may be part of it but it seems like something else is going on. When she collapses, her back legs splay out and she can't get up. If we help her by squeezing her legs together, she has a much easier time recovering than actually lifting her backend. Also, when she does have these episodes where she goes down and can't get up at all, within 10 minutes, she's up and moving around like nothing happened. Jumping through the dog door, walking around the yard, navigating the laminate floors no problem-- it just seems like too rapid of a recovery for something as chronic as arthritis. The episodes where she can't get up at all are happening maybe once or twice a day. When she is down, she's a little twitchy and pants a lot. The panting makes sense since she's straining but the twitching seems odd. She has no weird eye movement or vomiting so I wouldn't think it's a seizure ands strokes are so rare in dogs that I also don't think that she's having mini-strokes either. Since her last visit to the vet on Tuesday, she's been on a combination of Deramaxx and Tramadol. To be honest, I don't think I see any improvement. Maybe she's a little looser but it's definitely not helping in stopping the collapses. I'm going to take her back to the vet on Monday and discuss all this with her but, in the meantime, I just wondered if these symptoms sound like normal arthritis to any of you or if it sounds like anything different that anyone may has experienced? I've been reading like crazy, looking for ideas that better fit her symptoms. James and I are both upset and frustrated that we can't seem to offer her any more relief. |
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| This won't sound like good news but that sounds alot like how Chumley used to be. During the dark days, her legs were always splaying out on slippery floors, causing her to slip and fall. My vet said that it can happen when they don't have a good sense of where their limbs are and the legs get too far out and they are unable to correct it in time. And being unable to move can be because the neurological signals are not transmitting properly.
When vets initially diagnosed Chum with arthritis, I also had the feeling that it didn't really explain her symptoms. Now that Chum's neurological issues have been addressed, she has completely stopped slipping and falling and the arthritis looks like you would expect -- stiff movement, difficulty sitting up and laying down, crazy bunny hop running. Have they done any neurological testing on Lucy -- squeezing the paw pads to get a reflex; turning her feet over to see how quickly she corrects it? I hope it is not neurological because it is so frustrating to deal with. . . |
Valerie wrote: Have they done any neurological testing on Lucy -- squeezing the paw pads to get a reflex; turning her feet over to see how quickly she corrects it? I hope it is not neurological because it is so frustrating to deal with. . .
Yes, that was actually the first thing that the vet did. Lucy responded well to that. Corrected well, not falling over on her knuckles or anything. As horrible as it sounds, if the episodes weren't so sporadic, it wouldn't be so hard for the vet to see it. I don't blame the vet for only seeing the arthritis part because, essentially, that's all she does see. |
| If you have a digital camera that allows for video taping, you might consider taping what's happening. This way your vet can see an episode in action along with the twitching you've described. We've done this a time or two ourselves when we wanted our vets to see exactly what was going on. It a good way to show a vet a gait problem too.
Sorry I don't have much that I can add. Please let us know how her appointment goes on Monday. |
Jill, I'm so sorry that Lucy is going downhill so fast  How old is she, I have lost track? It would seem like the drugs should be kicking in by now and giving her some relief and improvement. |
| You can have seizures without the eye movement, muscles tremors or vomiting. I do think that a seizure that would cause her to lose her balance or control would also result in a period of fatigue when it was over. I would expect there to be some lingering effects after a small stroke also.
If it was neuro in origin, that could acount for the tremors too. Nerves controlling that area involved. The video is a great idea. Excellent. Positive thoughts for Lucy! |
| I am thinking possible seizure too.
Peanut's seizures sometimes were very hard to notice other then his heavy panting and drooling. It was usually his front legs that would splay and his back legs would give out, or he would fall over. He would be unable to regain balance and get up for at least 10 minutes sometimes longer. |
| It sounds unusual the rapid detoriation of her all of a sudden for just being old age arthritis.
I am suspecting something with the spine, a slight compression somewhere to cause the back end to go so quickly. A sliped disk, a pinched nerve, inflammation somewhere on the spinal cord, something along those lines, did the vet go right along the spine from the neck down to see any sore spots or flinches there from her when he felt along the spine? I hope you can find out more to help your darling lucy, it must be so dam frustrating at the moment. Another thing to maybe take her too is alternate thereapies if you can't get any improvement by conventional treatment, accupunture, chiropractor, muscle therapist, bowen therapy something along those lines. If it is mini strokes, which in not uncommon in elderly dogs, they get a dazed look to them and are disorientated and not sure where they are when it happens. Does lucy have that faraway look of not sure where she is at all when she is having these episodes? Did the vet check her heart as well? Keep us posted to how she is going, we are thinking of you all. |
| Oh Jill,
I just sent you a PM. I completely agree with Lisa about searching out alternatives and in addition the electroacuscope treatment. Also a spinal adjustment. Sounds like nerves might be involved maybe? By all means trust your instincts! No one knows our dogs better than we do!  |
| When she goes down like that, does she look at you if you call her name? I'm on the seizure thing here too. If you call here name and she doesn't respond or if you get on eye level with her and she doesn't track you, I would suspect she is having seizures. After Taylor's first seizure, they checked his blood and nothing showed up but about once a year he has a seizure. I really hope that Lucy is showing improvement soon. I know how scary and frustrating it can be. |
Simon's Mom wrote: When she goes down like that, does she look at you if you call her name? I'm on the seizure thing here too. If you call here name and she doesn't respond or if you get on eye level with her and she doesn't track you, I would suspect she is having seizures. After Taylor's first seizure, they checked his blood and nothing showed up but about once a year he has a seizure. I really hope that Lucy is showing improvement soon. I know how scary and frustrating it can be.
Well, she's mostly deaf so it isn't unheard of for her to ignore a voice command, lol. No, she's not out of it. Scared, but not seizing. I watched her closely today when she had an episode. Nothing out of the ordinary other than her legs just stop working and, like I said before, panting. Last night, she was in a really good mood and kept rushing for the door like she wanted to walk. I knew she couldn't go far but I figured I'd take her out on a lead just down the street and back and see how she did. Her arthritis seems like it's doing better but I noticed after about half a block, her back left leg started to go a little lame, almost like she was just tripping on that leg only. It wasn't knuckling over, but just catching a little. I'm going to explain all this to the vet tomorrow and hope that we can come up with some answers. |
| I also think the video is a great idea too. We were having some problems with Haggis that we thought may be neurological and it turned out to be a skin mite which we caught before we underwent MRI's, etc. with a neurologist. The video was really key for the diagnosis. Good luck with Lucy, I hope things get resolved for you soon. |
| How did things go at the vet's today, Jill? We've been thinking about you guys.
Laurie and Oscar |
| I talked to the vet for a long time today. She's a really sweet, caring woman and listened to everything I said and then we talked about everything it could be and what's best for Lucy. I know Lucy has arthritis, but I thought it might be more than just that. The vet thinks that Lucy also has some possible nerve problems in her back legs, especially the left since that's the one that drag. Could be cruciate or even in the hips. I asked about possible back problems and she didn't notice anything out of the ordinatry or tender in the back which leads her to think it isn't a bone problem. She told me she didn't want to waste my money on x-rays since she didn't think we'd see anything in it since soft tissue doesn't show up and she's pretty sure that's where the problem is.
So, she suggested that we continue on the pain medication but we're going to see how she does off the deramax. When she's done with the Tramadol, we're going to try her on Metacam since it'll be easier for her to take. Unfortunately, now it's all about making her comfortable. looks like there's no real "fix." Poor baby's old and can only handle so much, too. |
| I have been on Tramadol myself and it didn't work for me....
Hopefully the Metacam will work better. |
| I don't remember if you've tried a course of Prednisone yet? |
| Poor Lucy. I don't have any suggestions, just thought I'd let you know I'm thinking of you. |
Ron wrote: I don't remember if you've tried a course of Prednisone yet?
No, we haven't. I wouldn't say that my vet is against steroids but I know it's something that she seldom recommends first. I think she wants to see if we can treat the pain without it first but I'm going to discuss that with her as well at Lucy's next appointment. She's almost through with the latest course of meds so it should be soon. |
| Poor Lucy and Jill . Hang in there girl, we are all thinking of you. |
| Poor Lucy! I don't have any experience with this but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you find something that helps. |
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