Not Heeling-I'm in pain
 Foz still doesn't "heel" well even with the gentle lead. Steve has been the primary walker and I don't think he has been firm enough. It's not like Foz is horrible, but he always wants to be in front and walk really quickly. In order for me to walk him, I need him to not pull at all. For those of you who don't know, I have a condition called fibromyalgia which causes constant painful flareups that don't properly heal. I knew having a pup would be difficult, but I guess I had delusions of him walking as well as Annie does.
It makes me sad that I want to cry and won't be able to take Foz to do things without Steve's assistance. He doesn't love all the sheepdog events and activites that I do so I feel like he's obligated to do stuff. I mean, I can't even walk him into the groomer. Whenever I try to walk Foz (like today) he pulls and my shoulder really acts up. Therefore, I never walk him as I'll be in pain afterwards. Anyway, I need to find a good trainer who can work with us. I never thought I'd be one of those people who is considering sending Fozzie away to boot camp. It always looks so great on tv. I'm just afraid they might hurt him He really is a good sweet boy (at least I think so) and if I was "normal" it wouldn't be an issue. |
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| Ooh - I'm sorry for the situation you're in. I hope you find a great trainer quickly. I know how much Bingley will pull when he feels like it, and I know I wouldn't be able to deal with the pulling and fibromyalgia.
I have heard taking a tube of peanut butter, holding it at your side, and walking is a great way to teach initial heeling. I haven't tried it - anyone else? |
Stacy wrote: I feel like crying Foz still doesn't "heel" well even with the gentle lead. Steve has been the primary walker and I don't think he has been firm enough or I'm just looking for someone to blame for my own shortcomings . It's not like Foz is horrible, but he always wants to be in front and walk really quickly. In order for me to walk him, I need him to not pull at all. For those of you who don't know, I have a condition called fibromyalgia which causes constant painful flareups that don't properly heal. I knew having a pup would be difficult, but I guess I had delusions of him walking as well as Annie does. It makes me sad that I want to cry and won't be able to take Foz to do things without Steve's assistance. He doesn't love all the sheepdog events and activites that I do so I feel like he's obligated to do stuff. I mean, I can't even walk him into the groomer. Whenever I try to walk Foz (like today) he pulls and my shoulder really acts up. Therefore, I never walk him as I'll be in pain afterwards. Anyway, I need to find a good trainer who can work with us. I never thought I'd be one of those people who is considering sending Fozzie away to boot camp. It always looks so great on tv. I'm just afraid they might hurt him He really is a good sweet boy (at least I think so) and if I was "normal" it wouldn't be an issue. |
| Stacy it is hard as foz is also becoming the more adventurous teenager now.
This is the time that steve really needs to work on him even more when getting him to heel nicely. Maybe steve can work with a trainer and foz and learn a bit more on how to have him heeling and not out in front pulling. He is not a little pup anymore and is going to be quite a big boy so it needs to be worked on, so when he is a fully grown male he will be walking nicely by steve or your side. I would suggest steve putting him on the gentle leader and doing 5-10 minutes in the yard working on him and a technique to teach him not to head out front. If he pulls or heads out in front too far then make steve turn and walk in the opposite direction with him, still pulling turn again, keep doing that till he clicks, but only for a period of 5-10 minutes a day. Walking nicely then continue in the same direction. This way foz is learning to follow beside steve and if he does not he aint going to get very far on a walk. When heeling beside steve then off for a walk in the street, pulling or out in front again apply the same technique, you might not get far the first few times, but he will learn unless I am beside and walking nicely for mom or dad I aint going far on this walkies. You can also take over for a few minutes just in the yard too and do the same technique also. So he learns from you too. Be consistent with whatever training technique you choose to adopt on an approach to making him heel nicely and both do the same thing with him till he clicks. It is a different time the teenage years, but they do settle a lot with maturity. From a mom that had a bitch for a teenager we got there with being consistent and regular with training for walkies.  |
| Stacy,
I am sorry to hear to about your challenges with Foz. I hate to even suggest it, but have you tried a prong collar? My pup (1 years old tomorrow) is a horrible walker and I know how bad I feel after I have been pulled around town, I can't imagine it with fibromyalgia. I think I am heading in the direction of a prong, we've tried everything else. And, yes, we have been through classes, too. He is a Good Citizen dog, but I think they passed us just to get us from coming back for another round  !
Have you tried accupuncture or any holistic remedies for your joints? Good Luck, Kim |
| Sorry you are having trouble, I can completely sympathize. I went through that phase with Frank but am happy to report that he walks well on the leash now. I tried a combination of things but what really worked was the gentle leader and the ignoring technique that I read in Jan Fennell's book the Dog Listener which is about you establishing yourself as the pack leader.
Every single time Foz starts to pull, just stop walking. Stand there and wait for him to turn his head and look at you as an acknowledgement. As soon as he does this, start walking again. The theory is is that he learns that he is supposed to follow your lead on when he is allowed to walk. The technique takes a lot of patience. and it will take you forever to walk 3 blocks. but eventually he will get the idea. |
| Thank you for the helpful tips. I will leave the computer on tonight and have Steve read through the suggestions.
The thing is that we feel like Foz needs to burn off energy. Therefore, I know Steve sacrifices training in order to give Foz some exercise. There also isn't enough time in the morning so both Foz and Annie get walked together. Steve's the "monkey in the middle" with Foz in front and Annie as the "Pokey Puppy". I did do the backyard thing training today and then I got brave by taking Foz out into the front on the sidewalk. He had done so well in the yard that I thought I'd take a chance and figured I'd be going to the chiropractor on Saturday. Yes, we did use a prong collar for a while. He did still pull and I knew that I wanted him to get used to a the gentle leader. Thing is...he hates the leader. He backs up when trying to put it on and gets the most pathetic look on his face. Then he shifts back and forth on his front feet like a horsey. So sad |
| Stacy, eventually, you won't have to use the gentle leader once he stops being a knucklehead. This is just typical young boy behavior. Things will get better! |
| Does he pull really hard?
If he doesn't continue to pull and cause you pain when you stop, I would try a couple of things... If a gentle leader doesn't work, I would also consider a thin snake chain, like a show lead, up very high... right under his chin basically...it gives a lot of control. If you try walking while holding a treat for him to nibble, he will hopefully stay focused. Only let him have the treat once in a while, and randomly so he doesn't expect it all the time. Something really yummy that will hold his attention, like liver. Walk slowly.... if he gets ahead at all or stops focusing on you, stop and just wait. No corrections, just nothing. Once he is paying attention start walking again and let him nibble a bit... Maybe you've tried all those already, or maybe it won't work with him but that's what I would try. Good luck! |
Sorry to hear Stacy! I totally understand. Great advice was given. Things I will try myself!! I laughed and love the pb idea too.  |
Willowsprite wrote: Does he pull really hard?
If he doesn't continue to pull and cause you pain when you stop, I would try a couple of things... If a gentle leader doesn't work, I would also consider a thin snake chain, like a show lead, up very high... right under his chin basically...it gives a lot of control. If you try walking while holding a treat for him to nibble, he will hopefully stay focused. Only let him have the treat once in a while, and randomly so he doesn't expect it all the time. Something really yummy that will hold his attention, like liver. Walk slowly.... if he gets ahead at all or stops focusing on you, stop and just wait. No corrections, just nothing. Once he is paying attention start walking again and let him nibble a bit... Maybe you've tried all those already, or maybe it won't work with him but that's what I would try. Good luck! this works for me when we go to petco. i bring a small baggy of dog food, and she doesn't make me look like a bad dog owner. only downfall is, she comes off super aloof, and people think she doesn't want to be touched.
she has a one track mind if she sees food or sheep. Ravenmoonart's dogs tried sniffing on Yuki, but with sheep nearby... she honestly didn't know they were there!  Normally she's tearing my arm to play w/dogs!! |
| I'm not sure I understand how he is pulling you with the Gentle Leader on? I just put Bear's on him and tried to make him walk ahead of me. His head turns towards his neck and back towards me. If he pulls, and you're keeping a slower pace, wouldn't a pull result in him spinning himself around? |
ButtersStotch wrote: I'm not sure I understand how he is pulling you with the Gentle Leader on? I just put Bear's on him and tried to make him walk ahead of me. His head turns towards his neck and back towards me. If he pulls, and you're keeping a slower pace, wouldn't a pull result in him spinning himself around?
Not if you have a very stubborn dog with a strong neck! |
| I have a bad shoulder - still healing from dislocating it last year. Anyway, it does get sore. i just bought a "shock absorber" thing. It hooks between the collar and the leash, and looks kind of like a piece of bunge cord. It really helps! |
Lil Walty wrote: ButtersStotch wrote: I'm not sure I understand how he is pulling you with the Gentle Leader on? I just put Bear's on him and tried to make him walk ahead of me. His head turns towards his neck and back towards me. If he pulls, and you're keeping a slower pace, wouldn't a pull result in him spinning himself around? Not if you have a very stubborn dog with a strong neck! I agree...if Izzie sees something she really wants she can still pull alot even with the gentle leader on. She sort of stiffens her neck and the collar ends up all twisted around her face  I have no problem controlling her even when she does this, but I can see how Stacy would have a problem. |
| Remember with a prong collar or even a snake collar, they must be set high, real high...like behind the ears and just under the chin. Letting the collar slip down onto the neck allows them to use the stronger neck muscles to pull. Up higher if they pull they choke. |
| I used to walk three dogs at once - two Sheepies and a rescued Irish Setter. Choke chains only, the leashes lying on my shoulders.
The trick was to have the best heeling dog on the outside. I started with Maude on the outside and Abby on the inside, leashes in hand. Sometimes I would even roll the leashes together, forcing them to remain close to each other. When they could walk together easily (mainly due to Maude's training of Abby), I added the third. Mandy loved to go anywhere with the others. And they were good at forcing her to heel - only rarely too close. Fortunately we lived on the edge of town during that time, so we could safely spread out across a lane of the road. I wish I had pictures, but the picture-taker is rarely in the pictures. |
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