help.....!!The difference an afternoon can make
When i make the sound he starts barking at me, and when i turn away to ignore him he keeps barking for the whole 30 seconds. As soon as i pet him, he starts biting again. He's also still biting everything in the house too, which i had initially put down to him being inquisitive baby, but i feel like all im doing is constantly saying "no". I took him out back with his ball, and we ran around, and i had to stop to tell him no every 5 seconds when he was biting my legs. Pretty soon, he ran under the fence and into the neighbours garden. It then took me to pretend to run away shouting "bye alfie" before he panicked and ran back... I could have jumped the fence and carried him but i figured its better he learned to come back than me chasing him. Ive noticed that if alfie is doing something he wants, whether its right or wrong, he will not come to me when i shout on him. If i raise my pitch or volume and say "come here" he stops dead and proceeds to bark at me, as if to you "#### you". Ive also noticed that just in general alfie seldom comes to me when i call him. how much should i be putting down to the fact he's still a baby, and when i think of it, he's only been with me a couple of weeks? its just sad because i feel like we've been making good progress with "sit" and "paw" etc and this is like a step backwards. is there something that im doing wrong? |
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Richy wrote: how much should i be putting down to the fact he's still a baby, and when i think of it, he's only been with me a couple of weeks?
All of it. Just keep being consistent with what you're doing and sooner or later, he'll catch on. The first couple of months can be very trying. |
| Hi Richy,
I don't have any real practical training advise for you...I'll leave that to the more experienced trainers on this board...but I did want to say, take a deep breath and relax, "steps backward" are bound to come up!  Alphie is just a tiny babe, and he's going to take a while to catch on to everything(anything!). Give him , and yourself lots of time and lots of slack. It also sounds to me, like Alphie is making a game out of the training, which is very normal! If a technique doesn't "work" right off the bat, try a different one, and then go back and try again...sometimes it just suddenly "clicks"...its like you actually see the light dawn on them..."OH! you mean you dont WANT me to bite you?" 
good luck...hang in there! |
| yeah im tired too, so my patience level is a little lower
thanks for that  |
| Aren't puppies fun??? NOT!!!
Seriously, when Alfie bites, substitute your hand/arm/leg/butt/what he is chewing on for something else, chewie, kong, nyla bone, etc.. it's all about teaching them what they CAN't chew and what they CAN chew. Gosh, I 'm glad my boys are grown....... |
Dudster wrote: Aren't puppies fun??? NOT!!!
Seriously, when Alfie bites, substitute your hand/arm/leg/butt/what he is chewing on for something else, chewie, kong, nyla bone, etc.. it's all about teaching them what they CAN't chew and what they CAN chew. Gosh, I 'm glad my boys are grown....... hee hee yeah u got that right. i had a border collie for 15 years, up till a year or so ago. thing is, im realising now how much work is involved because a) i dont live with my parents now, so they arent on hand b) im older now, when we got ben (collie) i was around 11 or 12 |
| Puppies can test your patience to be sure, but I can't help thinking you are expecting too much too soon.
The first thing any new puppy owner should do is spend time bonding with that puppy. Not really going out of your way to "train" anything in particular, just let the pup get to know you, get to love you, and you him. If that emotional bond is not there I don't think the pup is going to feel there is a reason to try to please you as much. I also think the stronger the emotional bond is the more patience you will have. I would suggest for now just learn your puppy's behaviors and routines and not expect anything at this point. He is a baby. OES puppies nip. Plain and simple, new owners need to be prepared for that. Bree just turned 12 weeks old and she definitely knows now that we don't like nipping. You can see her little mind working, instinct tells her to nip, but she catches herself now and licks instead All we ever did was say ouch and ignore her for a few seconds. |
| BTW Alfie is an adorable little monster..
You should visit the puppy section.. there is TONS of helpful hints on how to cope when they have just about driven you around the bend. Have I mentioned how happy I am that my dogs are grown............ |
| Don't worry, keep practicing and you'll develop puppy callouses LOLOLOL
Sorry, couldn't resist the guitar reference. |
| We had the same problem with Oakley at first...and then one day it just seemed to "click" that nipping us wasn't the right thing to do. Oakley is now 3 so unfortunately I can't remember exactly how old he was but I do know that there were days I never thought he would figure it out but luckily for him and us he did. Please have a lot of patience with Alfie...it so worth it. Look at all the forum members that have more than one OES (I'll be a member of this group in another 6 weeks!). Good Luck! |
Ron wrote: Don't worry, keep practicing and you'll develop puppy callouses LOLOLOL
Sorry, couldn't resist the guitar reference. now ron, you should know im a singer  |
Oakley's Mom wrote: Look at all the forum members that have more than one OES (I'll be a member of this group in another 6 weeks!). Good Luck!
Woohoo!! Another addict!  |
| I swear, when Oscar was a little puppy, I was so sleep deprived you'd think I had a newborn at home! However, the good news is that this stage passes rather quickly compared to a human baby!
Oscar was also very "mouthy", both with his tiny, razor sharp teeth, and his back talk. We constantly replaced our hands, feet, clothes, whatever happened to be the chew toy at the moment, with an appropriate dog toy, and he slowly got the idea. For the back talk, we'd basically ignored him, and walked away. When he knew he wasn't going to get the results he wanted, he stopped that annoying behavior as well. Now he only back talks my father, because he knows he'll get a rise out of him! I am happy to report, after Oscar's very trying puppyhood, that he has grown into a sweet adult.
Laurie |
| It will improve!!! Honest!
When Bingley was going through this I seriously wondered if he would ever calm down and concentrate on things that dogs are supposed to concentrate on! Eventually it does get there! We were the "stuff-it" family for months and months. Every time Bingley was around we had toys surrounding us so we could praise him when he grabbed a toy instead of us. If he did grab us we used a stern tone and then praised him lavishly when he grabbed the toy we had for him instead. 
There is a light just around the corner - only a matter of months! |
| My method is a bit different. From the first, everytime we got a kiss from any of our fur kids, we would say "kisses" in a soft, baby-talk type voice.
When they would bite, we would say "kisses, no bite." Changing the second half of that phrase to a firm voice. It seemed to help them get over it quicker - or maybe we just thought so.  |
| Thanks everyone |
| I know exactly how you feel!!
I cried buckets when I first got George I felt like he had upset my life!! I'm sure he thought the only word I ever said was "NO!" With the advice and help of everyone here and with time it has got easier. Someone here told me regualr exercise and a routine was the way to go. george is almost 6 months and he has completed changed and it makes me glad I got through the first few weeks! He knows what is going to happen each day and he knows he gets his exercise at the same sort of times and it's working!! Stick with it it does get better and we all know that from experience!! Good Luck |
| When a new pup enters the house, we start training immediately. As for bonding, I always sleep with the pup the first couple of nights or more. I did this with our rescue Panda when she arrived at 10 months too.
All of my sheepies learned sit and down within 2-3 days of arrival... even my blind, cleft palate sheepie- http://www.oesusa.com/Feb62005.jpg (all were around 9 weeks). I was just looking at some of the old videos... sigh. Puppies are sooooo much fun. I hadn't realized early training was possible until our 3rd dog (our first sheepies). Around-place also came quickly. The trick is to use methods that the pup will naturally follow and say the command as they do it; keep training sessions very brief- maybe a 1 to 3 minutes if you have the pups attention; repeat 4 or 5 times a day and use very small super yummy treats. Keep it fun! As for the biting, the substitution thing mentioned is great. Just make sure you've always got something in your back pocket that you can immediately put in his mouth. Panda was the mouthingist (I know, not a real word) dog that I've ever met. So before I'd leave the bedroom in the morning I'd grab the stuffed toy I had hanging behind the door so I could stuff it in her mouth as she came at me. Exuberant describes her best. You might also try a penny can. We take a clean/empty pop can and put a few pennies in it and duct tape it shut. If the pup bites, we say NO! or Uh-UH! and give the can a shake. All play should immediately stop if the pup continues to bite. It takes time to stop this naughty behavior. Do you have someone that can help you with a little training? For the come command, I've found a pup enjoys it if you have two people for this game. Say "Alfie, come" in a happy voice and when he runs to you give him a treat, then the next person does the same thing. Eventually you increase the distance between you and later go to a treat every other time, then every 3rd time but not when you're first starting training. Another thing is that if a pup will not come, I go get the pup. If you allow them to get away with not coming, they know they CAN get away with it. But don't make it a chasing game. And NEVER call them to you so you can scold them. Here's something else you can try... get the pups attention with a treat... back up and call him to you in a happy voice. If he follows, stop and give a treat. You can increase the number of steps you back up as he catches on. More Advanced: Once you've got the sit command in place, start with the pup in front of you... back up a few steps and say "come!" in a happy voice, tell him to sit, then reward. Back up, say "come", tell him to sit, then reward. I love to train young puppies. Sigh. Did I mention that he's adorable! Sooo much black in his coloring... a very handsome little sheepie. Hard for me to believe such a cutie is being a little stinker |
| When I read your post, I swear I joined this forum writing almost the exact same thing. Wilbur doesn't 'lick'. Have you ever heard of a dog that doesn't lick? He just NIPS
Wilbur is 7 months old today and still nips, just he does it softer and has no razor sharp baby teeth anymore. But, with a firm 'NO!', he releases. We took him to puppy classes and to deter the biting, we were told you are to only have about 2 or 3 toys for him out at once, not plenty all over the place. That apparently just teaches them that it is ok to chew on EVERYTHING. And, it did work because we still have our coffee table and leather couch in top condition. But fingers? Not so much. As for you yelping when he bites you, we thought that would work too cause, I mean, we were speaking 'dog'. Nope. Trainer told us that teaches him to learn your threshold and will continue biting you that hard. Ahh, enjoy! (it gets better. But 7 months later. They do learn though, they learn). |
Richy wrote: Well it doesnt seem to work, this high pitched yelp when Alfie bites, or in any other pitch for that matter. When i make the sound he starts barking at me, and when i turn away to ignore him he keeps barking for the whole 30 seconds. The high-pitched yelp needs to be a very quick, shrill "Yipe"..It will startle him. You have about 2 seconds to calmly pat him, or give him a calming massage. If he bites again, another quick shrill "yipe". The sound has to be very quick..1 note...or a quarter-note, even.. He has to learn what that means. Repetition will eventually get through to him. What you really should be doing is gauging the pressure he does. Only yelp when it really hurts. If he is gentle with his teeth, that is fine. That teaches him to control his bite... When Alfie barks at you in this way he is confused, and doesn't know how to communicate with you, or how to get you back interacting with him. Richy wrote: He's also still biting everything in the house too, which i had initially put down to him being inquisitive baby, but i feel like all im doing is constantly saying "no". I took him out back with his ball, and we ran around, and i had to stop to tell him no every 5 seconds when he was biting my legs. Personally, I do not use the work "no". That can mean all kinds of things to your dog, that you don't realize. Alfie may learn that "no" is his name. Or he may think that "no" means to bite your leg harder. He may learn to stop doing something when you say it, but only as an interruption. He hasn't learned not to do it again, or when you are not around. Anytime you feel the urge to say "no" think of what you want him to do instead. Lure him away from "whatever", give him an alternate chew thing or whatever. Puppies need to be kept busy when not sleeping, or they will do things that are not desirable. Because they don't know what they are allowed to do. Alfie needs to learn what he can and what he cannot chew, but the first thing you have to do is puppy-proof your place. Puppies are like babies...everything into thier mouths. They don't have hands to feel stuff, and their main interest is food and/or mouth comfort from teething, and chewing is also a stress reliever. Give Alfie particular "allowed" chew things and take up everything else. If you are playing outside, and he bites your pant leg, just stop playing, stand up, look at the sky adn don't move. Become a tree. Then you are not fun anymore. That way he will learn how his own behavior causes a reaction....Not just to stop when you tell him to. Richy wrote: It then took me to pretend to run away shouting "bye alfie" before he panicked and ran back... I could have jumped the fence and carried him but i figured its better he learned to come back than me chasing him. You have the right idea. This is one of the ways you can teach your puppy "come". If you turn and run the other way Alfie will chase you. Let him catch up to you and then give him a tiny treat and lots of hugs and prasie for being such a good boy. Richy wrote: Ive noticed that if alfie is doing something he wants, whether its right or wrong, he will not come to me when i shout on him. If i raise my pitch or volume and say "come here" he stops dead and proceeds to bark at me, as if to you "#### you". Ive also noticed that just in general alfie seldom comes to me when i call him. There is no way you can teach Alfie to come to you if you shout and him and act angrily. You must never punish him when he comes to you. Dogs have excellant memories for negative results. You must make coming to you a positive experience every time...Even if you don't feel like it. One mistake in this area can set you back, and it can also cost him his life. Have you ever noticed that when one dog barks other dogs will join in? If Alfie interprets your vocals as "barking" he will join in, and bark himself. Shouting to him is like barking...Let's all bark together..
Also, what I would do is separate Alfie's name from the request "Come". They are 2 different things. I would say his name so that he looks at me, and then ask him to do whatever I want him to do....Once he is trained to do it, of cource. As for teaching him "Come" there are many ways to do this. I use hand signals a lot, and verbal as a back-up. But he has to be taught what that means..Right now you saying his name really doesn't mean anything to him. How does he know what you want him to do when you say it? He has to be taught what is expected of him...by rewarding rewarding and rewarding..... What I like to do is have one person hold him very loosely, while you stand 10 feet away, facing him. When you have his attention you can call his name, make a signal using your hand towards your chest, with your elbow in the air to the right. Then turn around and run. Let him catch you and you reward him with a treat. Then do it again, and again, and again. Soon you won't need to turn and run, and he will just come flying towards you. If he likes to play with a ball you can toss a ball between your legs so he runs right between your legs when you call him. This will help getting him nice and close to you. You are doing fine with him. Just remember he is a baby, don't get upset with him, stay calm and have fun with him. We all want our dogs to be under control and well-behaved, so we want you to succeed with Alfie. By learning how to communiate with him, and teaching him in a calm, happy, enjoyable way he will grow to be confident and happy and trusting. Hope this helps! |
| Richy:
How are things going??? Hope Alphie is behaving....let us know! |
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