Dog Run design input
I am trying to decide whether to extend the dog run to occupy the whole left side of the property -- another 15-20 feet -- to connect it with the detached garage. Then I would put a dog door in the garage and wall off a portion as a dog room area. The garage is huge so I would not miss the space. The idea being that there are times when I'd like to have them out of the house but it would be great if they could enjoy shade/shelter of the garage if that's what they wanted. I have a small yard and it would make it more narrow, but I wonder if the benefits make it worth it. I am also planning on having a dog wash area in the garage so it would be good to have an area in there where they could dry off afterwards. I had initially been thinking that would go in the basement but I don't want dirty Maggie going through the house to the basement and Chum can't make it down there at all. What do you think? Extend dog run to include the garage? Or is this too much planning for dogs that seems great in concept but won't matter much in practice? Also, I am debating between grit and mulch for the surface of the dog run. Grit is easy to clean from a poop perspective but sure makes sheepies dusty. Maggie and Chum both really enjoy laying in and chewing mulch -- but that also could make them dirty. Any thoughts or other ideas? |
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| Astroturf or indoor/outdoor carpet of some sort maybe?
I think I saw some artificial turf posted in here that looked REALLY good that would allow for great drainage. |
| I have a similar set up as we have an area in the garage that we have 'fenced' off for the dogs. The area is approx 20 x 10, there is a gate into the garage also there is a door to their outside dog pen. Hubby made a raised bed for the dog crates so they would not be on the cold concrete. Even tho the garage can be heated, we have not had to do that so far. For the outside dog run at the other house we had 3/4 inch crushed stone, it was not dirty at all. However at this house we used patio stone slabs, its easier to keep clean and never have to top up the stone like we had to at the other place.
The pen at my other house was 4ft x 20 ft, it was too small for them to play, it was strictly for potty. This house the dog run is 20x40 approx. They can run and play in there as well as potty. For their real exercise I let them into the yard and its a large yard, almost an acre. During the day the dogs can go in the garage for shelter if they like, or they can lay in the sun, there is also a wood deck in their pen (it was already here) I feel its well worth having a place for the dogs to go when they are too mucky for the house. Especially in winter when they are soaking wet from the snow, I fill their crates with towels and they drip dry. |
| My back yard is off our attached garage, and the dogs often lay in the garage to keep cool. They have the choice, when they are outside. That is also their "drying off" place and where I wash thier muddy paws.. Also, if I don't want them in the yard when the gates are open, and I don't want them in the house, it is a place they are familiar with, and so don't feel confined or locked up. Always a bowl of fresh water in there for them.
They are NEVER left outside, though, if noone is home. EVER. The one thing that I see as a possible problem with a side run is the neighbors, and the barking or fence running when something is happening in the ajoining yard. And if I need them outside of the house, but separated (for whatever reason) the possibility is there. |
Bosley's mom wrote: The one thing that I see as a possible problem with a side run is the neighbors, and the barking or fence running when something is happening in the ajoining yard.
I am not worried about that because they currently have access to the yard and they never fence run or even bark with the neighbor dog, who is very barky. The neighbors have actually been relieved that I don't mind their barking dog. Of course my intention is not to leave them outside when no one is home. Rather, I'd like to be able to contain them somewhere outside with the option for shelter when I am home. |
Bosley's mom wrote: They are NEVER left outside, though, if noone is home. EVER. Mine either....its just not worth it....Even tho you have to go thru 2 sets of gates to get to the dog run, I just don't want to take a chance of someone letting them out...even tho I live in the country and have no close neighbors. My dogs are not even left in the garage pen loose when I am not home. I crate them when I am not home. This way I know they are safe. And if I happen to be later than I thought...I don't have to worry about them. Valerie wrote: Of course my intention is not to leave them outside when no one is home. Rather, I'd like to be able to contain them somewhere outside with the option for shelter when I am home.
The garage is a great option for that. Its especially helpful when we have elderly people visiting who don't appreciate my dogs the way I do. |
| I, too, like the garage option. As you are learning, storms can come up quickly there and it would be nice to have a place the girls can escape the rain/hail/wind. Then in winter a nice dry spot in the dog room, maybe a wire crate (or two) with blankets over the top and a nice warm bedding can help them thru a cold winter day until you get home.
Another thought on the surface material is paving stones, leaving the perimeter in gravel for drainage. Yes, gravel is a dream to pick up poop, but it flies when they run and can be quite dusty...especially if the wind is adding more dust. The only concern, of course, is the dog door. Some tiny kid can crawl thru and open the house for his older siblings. So consider how well you can secure the home with this "open" port. |
SheepieBoss wrote: The only concern, of course, is the dog door. Some tiny kid can crawl thru and open the house for his older siblings. So consider how well you can secure the home with this "open" port.
I've thought about that too. I want to put the dog door in the mudroom, which has a door between it and the kitchen. I could put a deadbolt lock on that door so that if someone climbed in the dog door, they would not be able to get into the house. Of course, that door would only be closed and locked when I am not home because otherwise it would defeat the purpose of having a dog door. But at least I'd have security when I am away. I think that is when the risk of break-ins is greater too. |
| Sounds like a good plan. Just get those better deadlocks, not the hardware store varieties.
Friend was just involved in decorating that new Italian restaurant on the Mall.......alas, her company had a giant layoff before the Boulder job was finished so she never saw the finished design, but said what she saw was just stunning. |
| Which restaurant? |
Yeah, I was hoping you wouldn't ask 
Apparently he has a TV cooking show and uses part of the restaurant for filming. I'll email and try to get an answer for tomorrow. |
| I'm going to take a wild stab and say: Laudisio's because the more I think about it and what I heard and later thought, I don't think it's THE Mall, Pearl St because of the existing Italian places around there. I think I remember her saying something about 29th street.......and I think Laudisio's has recently expanded there. Hey, the wine was flowing and the palce we were eating wasn't real good on sound. |
| I was wondering if that is what you meant. I was there last weekend and it is really lovely inside - very fancy and spacious. Not what I expected from the outside. They also have nice outdoor seating with pretty views of the flat irons. I kept hearing great things about the place but our waiter was horrible and the food was just average. The Key Lime Pie, however, was a knockout and worth going just for that. Yum! |
| Definately extend it to the garage, especially as you are going to use that area for grooming.
Surfaces for the run area, not mulch they drag that everywhere and it gets dragged into the house and all over the yard too. Grit is dusty and makes them dusty too and ususally gets scattered everywhere also with them running and playing in there. Poopie pick up you usually loose the grit in time with the pick up process. In my run I have 1/4" grey screening stones, they have been down for 8 years and easy to keep the run clean, great for wet weather too as it keeps the dogs feet dry and to clean it on occassions I just throw around some water and dis-infectant in a bucket then hose it. Ready to use straight away as the water seeps through the stones and does not puddle in there, if they wee in there no puddles either. We get a lot of gum leaves that fall everywhere so I just use the blower and blow them out of the run and no stones lost then 
The screening stones would also last well when there is snow and it starts to melt away too. Concrete runs or ashphalt is no good as the wees or water just sits there in pools for the dogs to walk through. Grass is no good either as that turns to mud when you loose the grass and hard to clean out that area. Here is the surface of my run.  |
| Wow -
Can't wait to see the process as you begin. I think connecting it to the garage would be great, and I second the "no mulch". Apparently the treated wood can be dangerous to dogs, and it really does stick everywhere to their bodies! Bingley can testify to that daily as we have mulch surrounding our trees and flowerbeds out front. Even when he's not allowed in them it seems to gravitate to his hair and get carried inside! It sounds like a really great project and I'm sure your girls will love it  |
| The stones that Lisa suggested are a great idea.....except in snow. We had 3/4 inch pea gravel in the play yard at the other house....they would stick in the dogs paws with the ice and snow. It was very hard to get out of their paws and occasionally we missed one and the hardwood floors got scratched.
With the concrete slabs its has been easier to keep the dog run and the dogs clean rather than the stones. It is also MUCH easier to keep shoveled free of snow in the winter....since you are in Colorado, I would think snow would be a big factor in your decision. |
Ron wrote: Astroturf or indoor/outdoor carpet of some sort maybe?
I think I saw some artificial turf posted in here that looked REALLY good that would allow for great drainage. I recently received a request from a client (part time business for groundskeeping and design) to incorporate a dog area using astroturf. I saw a small piece of the "turf" and it's very impressive. Interface to the garage is a great idea. |
| What kind of drainage does astroturf allow? Is it easy to clean? Also, what does it feel like? Is it sharp and pokey or soft? I want something Chum might enjoy lying down on. Will it get hot in the sun? |
| Our dog yard has mulch - and it is an issue with longer hair. It does stick in Chewie's hair when they wrestle. If he goes out in it with a non -rowdy dog, it is fine. Other than the hair issue, I love it.
An OES friend in Mpls has 6 inch deep pearock, and it works good. I don't know how bad the sticking in the pads is - She didn't mention that. The drainage and cleanup are good, and it looks nice too. Because it is deep enough, there is no mud problem. Oh, Chewie's co-breeder's dog yard is pearock too - now that I think about it. They are WI, so they have plenty of winter weather too. Our dog run that the labs are in is made up of cement staves from when we took down our old silo. It is wonderful. I guess rectangular pavers would be the closest thing a person could buy. The pavers are thick and smooth surfaced. They are just hand laid (very heavy, but look great!) and the rain and urine drains out between the seams. They have been there over 5 yrs and still look like when we put them down. We had a dog run real similar to Lisa's picture at home for our Brittanies. It was free standing, seperate from the runs that came off the dog kennel building. Ours had a ground surface of limestone - like the kind farmers use. My dad had a load delivered - over 6 inches thick. It packed down to a nice solid surface and is a natural deoderant. Easy to clean poop up from too. I vote for attaching it to the garage. Especially seeing you plan to have a grooming/bathing area there. It sounds very handy, and easily accessible for both you and the girls. |
| I think the more space you can give them the better. As for surface I began with chat, but if they have a loose stool on occasion, you have to drag out the hose and water it until it eventually seeps through the chat since you can't really pick it up. I have a well drained concrete paved run that includes the patio and totals about 1000 sf. which is shaded by large gum trees. Of course Barney usually waters the fence, but Maggie doesn't like to have the pee run down the concrete on her feet so she sits on one of the expansion joints in the concrete and aims it so it runs in the joint. Fussy girl! If she could the toiled she'd probably complain because I don't leave the seat down. |
| val, i like the idea of going alll the way to the garage with the doggie door...as you know we have a detached garage and we installed the alarm from the main house to the garage...it not only is armed to the actual doors leading into the garage, windows and the main garage door, but we also have motion dectors in there too....so that might be an option....just a thought! |
| Artifical turf is very hot. If the run was shaded, then it might be OK.
It is put down on a specially prepared bed of drainage material (gravel) and than a stabilizing base like sand or a special finer base. Then the turf is put down and a rubber mulch put over it to separate the "blades" and to make it springy like grass. "They" say it drains well and is fine for doggie doo. Since microoganisms are what break down doo-doo residual and urine I don't know if a long term study has been conducted on this material and kennels. But since the girls won't be in there 24/7, the point may be moot. And then there's the cost.............there's nothing cheap about the stuff. |
| Hey, I just found the site that had been posted here before.
Artificial Turf, Fake Grass, Astroturf, Astro Turf (Just in case I need to find it again )
http://www.newgrass.com/ |
| Perhaps you could call some of their testimonial installations for a reference, especially the doggy day care place at the bottom of the page
http://www.newgrass.com/customers.htm and ask them if it gets hot. Looks like all of their installations are in Arizona -- so any heat issues should be well understood. |
| Ron, grass is cool because of the evaporation of the water from the grass blades and the soil below. So unless you had a sprinkler on the faux turf to moisten the mulch, there's no evaporation.
Pro sports fields use nearly as much water cooling their playing surfaces before the games than they do in growing the real thing. I just worry about the heat build up, otherwise the stuff is rather fun. Green grass in January. Just a point of interest, at the new Cardinals football stadium in Glendale AZ, the new enclosed football stadium has natural grass even though the stadium is undercover because of the hatred of the faux grass. They actually roll the grass outside during the week and then haul it back inside for games. Now is that silly?? |
SheepieBoss wrote: Just a point of interest, at the new Cardinals football stadium in Glendale AZ, the new enclosed football stadium has natural grass even though the stadium is undercover because of the hatred of the faux grass. They actually roll the grass outside during the week and then haul it back inside for games. Now is that silly??
That would be funny if you met someone and they asked what you do....oh, I am the guy that moves the grass outside and back in for games |
| Or, "I roll grass." |
| For pictures of the arena (I forgot the roof does open) and see the rolling grass...actually it is on a giant pan that rolls outside.....
http://www.stadiumsofnfl.com/nfc/Univer ... tadium.htm sheepieboss |
| I second the idea to allow use of the garage. And, I also agree to use the largest area you are willing to allow since Maggie is so active.
There is a post in the Getting a Puppy section, Meet Stella Blue. There are some pics of flat stones with grass or some type of greenery in between. Have you thought of something like that maybe? I know there are all sorts of flagstone and concrete stones that could be laid out with space between. I like the idea of pea gravel. Maybe you could do a variety of surfaces for function as well as aesthetics. I love the fake grass idea, since that's the rage now here in the desert for water conservation. But very pricey. Or regular grass for that matter. That is if you like dirt with grass patches.
Whatever you pick I'm sure it will be beautiful. |
| I really appreciate the input. It has given me much to think about. I will go ahead and plan on connecting it to the garage. It seems more useful to me and you all seem to agree.
Even with the larger space, it is not really big enough for Maggie to get any real exercise. I am just trying to give the dogs some place to go outside so I can keep the rest of the yard free of poop. I hate having to hunt around for it. Plus it would be good to have an area to segregate them when I have guests. I can't wait to get a dog door. Chum has taken to wanting to be let out and in during the night and it is getting very annoying.  |
 Val incorporating the garage into the dog run is a great idea. You will LOVE the doggie door. It is good to hear that Chummie is up and around and doing so well. Good luck with your project. |
Valerie wrote: What kind of drainage does astroturf allow? Is it easy to clean? Also, what does it feel like? Is it sharp and pokey or soft? I want something Chum might enjoy lying down on. Will it get hot in the sun?
http://www.progreen.com/dogrun.htm http://www.easyturf.com/2005/03/dogandlawn.php The sample I handled was soft and very realistic. I will use it in my client’s enclosure. Clean up is easy and maintenance is minimal. |
| Hi Val, I have an area that my dogs can go out to during the day, via a dog door, which I used large stone/rock as the flooring. I used pea gravel as a filler around the large stone. I dug this area down about 12 inches and filled it with the large stones/rock that I got. The size of the stones/rocks average around 12 to 15 inches or so in diameter. After I filled it with the rock I then filled in the cracks and crevices with pea gravel to give it a finished look. I do have one small area that I was going to landscape that I use mulch in because one of my dogs will not do his business on anything but grass or dirt. When I had opened up my dog day care center I had used mulch in the dog playyard. The dog warden inspector had me remove it saying that it was not sanitary. After experimenting on my own I have to agree with her. I would discourage you from using anything that will retain urine or you will not be able to clean fecal matter from. The good thing about the stone/rock/gravel is that you can hose it down and in an hour or so on a nice day it is dry. I will post a pic of it. When the picture is approved you should be able to see it in my photos. |
| Jack -- Thank you! That really looks excellent. I think Chum would like the smooth surfaces for her delicate pads but the gravel in between is good too. I think that looks like the answer.
Thanks everyone for the input. If any of you thtink of any other aspects that either worked great or you would do differently, please let me know. |
| If you're concerned about heat, don't you think solid stone would get hot, especially the dark colors?
Didja call any of the artificial turf places or their references? Half of the references look like dog shelters with runs in the open sun... I would think that thin long grass-like fibers would shade the substrate from the sun and would be quick at giving up the solar heat to the surrounding air, but it's just a guess. I'd ask if you're at all interested in the fake grass approach. I have to say I like the way the stone looks. |
| I was tempted but after giving it some thought, I concluded it would be harder to pick sometimes soft poo out of fake grass. With gravel or stone, it would be easier. Plus my landscaper said that fake grass is actually very hard to maintain.
Also, Chum has always loved lying on stone surfaces. |
| Warmth probably feels good on her old bones. My arthritic dogs like warms spots too. |
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