I need to vent.....
In not so exact words, I was told by rescue today that I am not a fit adoption candidate because I plan on having a family in the near future. I am told that this breed is NOT good with children and that they WILL bite. THIS PISSES ME OFF!!!!!!! I am OES experienced, so is my wife. We are here....ready...willing and able to adopt a sheepie that is in need of a new home. NOT ONCE DID MY SHEEPERS BITE ME or MY SISTERS OR ANYONE THAT EVER CAME INTO OUR HOME. No matter what you read about this or ANY OTHER BREED they are all dogs....dogs are unpredictable, and so is your neighbor. I was told that I should go get a Golden Retriever. IF I WANTED A GOLDEN I WOULD HAVE GONE TO GET ONE. I don't need to be told that Goldens are great family pets, but having an OES for the first 21 years of my life I'd say that they make fine pets too, and great companion dogs. Certainly a hell of a lot smarter than a Golden (which I happen to also adore) But even after all that "Grannie" told me today (really tried to talk me out of it) I still want an OES, I will still get an OES and will still have a great family to boot. I feel bad for the dogs that will never get placed and even more so for the dogs that will never have the chance to know children--the only other creature on earth that will show as much affection as it does and will accept all of the wet doggie kisses. With that said, it looks like we will go down the puppy road. This is not settling, however, as my wife and I had discussed both aspects, but I would have rather helped save a sheeper and given a loving family for it's furever home. Thank you for reading my venting. Feel free to flame away! Josh |
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| hmm, from what i can see, you got a bum deal. i would consult another adoption venue and not mention the family future. if anything i would think that would HELP your case, as people who want families are generally level headed and caring.
best of luck in whatever way you seek to remedy the issue, Ed |
| Thanks Ed. I guess I'm just shocked that a rescue organization would not want every opportunity to place a dog! Anyhow, already have a few other options for rescue....sicne that is the first route we want to take! |
| You didn't get a bum deal! This is the job of the placement director of any decent Rescue organization. Maybe you didn't have any problems with the sheepdogs you had in the past - however - there have been plenty of problems with other OES and children. It's the number one reason people surrender their dog to Rescue! There aren't any dogs that NEVER get placed through NEOESR - they all get placed in the most appropriate home - and yes - that may include children-free homes - but they are only doing what is best for everyone involved! I would much rather see someone be upfront and honest about not placing a dog in a home with young children than place a dog that could possibly harm a child - and once I've grown attached to them have them either be put back in Rescue or worse - put to sleep!
These aren't puppies that NEOESR has breed and knows the temperment of - these are Rescues that many have already had it rough in life - and a rescue organization wants to make sure that they end up in a forever home! You can be as PISSED OFF as you want - Annie is just doing her job! One that I may add she does MUCH better than several other REscue organizations I've been involved with! She has the DOGS best interest at heart! Homes are carefully selected and in most circumstances - Rescue organizations will NOT place animals in homes with children under 12! That's the nature of the beast! This is why NEOESR is so successful - they do the job properly! You can go to the Golden Retriever Rescue - and I'm sure you'll find the same thing! Fenced Yard & No Young Children - that's the way it goes for most! Kristen |
ed wrote: hmm, from what i can see, you got a bum deal. i would consult another adoption venue and not mention the family future. if anything i would think that would HELP your case, as people who want families are generally level headed and caring.
best of luck in whatever way you seek to remedy the issue, Ed Lying to a rescue organization is not recommended!!!!! They are screening applicants to ensure dogs are placed in the best home possible - BE HONEST about your situation - otherwise it's not being fair to the organization that VOLUNTEERS countless hours to help OES in need and it's certainly NOT fair to the dogs! What happens if you lie about having a family and get a dog that isn't appropriate with children - then the children come - what happens - the dog is dumped back in Rescue! Give me a break!  |
| The responses posted here are very educational and mostly true, but I would think we could try to be a little more calm and reserved in getting our points across. These types of responses that come accross as if your yelling at them just scare people in asking questions and entering new topics in my opinion. People come to this site for answers and opinions, and most of all support! |
| jsmarcus -- Were you looking to adopt a specific OES or were you denied for OES in general?
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| The original post started out bad mouthing a person and an organization! The responses from me were mild in comparison to what I was thinking at the time. NEOESR and particularly Grannie Annie are one of the best Breed Rescue organizations in the Country. They are supportive of just about every other OES rescue organization and help ALL OES (and OES mixes) in need - regardless of their issues. They would not be so successful in placements if Annie wasn't as careful in her selection process. Whether that offends people or not - she isn't there to make friends - she's there to help the OES in need - which she does a tremendous job doing. If only the Breeders were as careful in their selecting of appropriate homes for their puppies - then so many OES wouldn't be in Rescue!
I apologize to you "Guest" if anything I said turned you off to posting on the Forum. I am ALWAYS supportive of others on this forum - but when you speak negatively about a person and an organization that does so much for OES all over this country (and beyond) - then expect some negative feedback. We all need to realize everyone has their own opinions and it's our right to share those opinions. Kristen |
| I was upset about the vent of G/A it is certainly uncalled for. She has been doing her job for 44 years and does it quite well. She has taken in dogs with problems and worked with them only to have them adopted and living a very well deserved home. Go to NEOESR and read the stories of the dogs that are turned into rescue. When you buy a puppy many breeders interview you as well and it is not a few minutes it is hours of chatting. Why? The breeder wants their pups to have the best start in life just like rescue wants these dogs to have the best home for them. Lying on an adoption application could be disaster later on. Some dogs do not like children you can't change that, some show dominance tendencies by this I mean humping. Having a large sheepie dog hump a child could be a scary experience and could send the dog back to rescue. Rescue looks out for the dogs in rescue as their needs come first. This can become a heated argument please check out the facts before bad mouthing a well known classy organization like NEOESR and its director and numerous members. Dolores |
| This will be a long response, I apologize, but Kristen, please read it in it's entirety.
All I was really trying to get across is that for the past 3 years that I have shown interest in adopting an OES, GA has tried to talk me out of it because I want a family. I do not currently have children--and have been completely upfront and honest with her and other rescue people I have spoken to. I do not mean to bad mouth her, and as I stated in the original post, was merely venting. Please reread the first 2 sentences. What upset me most is that GA tried to talk me into another breed. You know what, my mind was made up for the past 30 years that this was the dog/breed for me and my family. It's not easy to talk someone out of something that has been solidly placed in their psyche....sound familiar? I respect the fact that 1400 dogs compared to 2 is no comparison, but all this does is drive me to get a puppy instead of doing the right thing. The right thing here is to rescue a dog in need. I mentioned Golden Retriever b/c that is what Annie said to go and get. I will say it again, if I wanted a GR, I would not have needed to speak to Annie! I have the utmost respect for Annie and every other person on the planet that rescues animals from an almost certain demise from people that don't think before going to the shelter--and a message to anyone of those people out there that get a chance to read this post: DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE BRINGING IN YOUR PET. Make sure the shelter you are taking your animal to is not going to simply put it to sleep, but better yet, contact rescue first! I am not a bad person...I love animals and would have a house full of them if I could. All I want is to try to save an OES, and if I need to Pass some form of test for Annie, then you'll see high marks, but don't tell me I can't have a dog because I want to have children. That, in my mind is a horrible thing to tell a prospective parent. Annie knows of the dogs that are turned in because the family did not know what they were getting into most of the time. Sure, how would they? Well, if they had experience with the breed in the past, that's how. I agree with screening potential rescue homes before placement, it's a must. I am not badmouthing GA, simply the situation. And at the end of the day, if she won't give me a dog, then I'll find someone else who will. |
| I personally think that if you want an oes, or any dog, and you know that you plan on having children it would be best to have children first, and then get a puppy who will grow up with your child. They can form a wonderful bond, but even then a child and dog should always be supervised when together. Always. Even if you get a puppy now and have a child a year down the road, that puppy is then a full grown oes who may be jealous of the baby and may harm it. Dogs are dogs. They go mostly on instinct, and even the best trained dog with the most wonderful temperment in the world, can get his nose out of joint when a new baby comes along. I would hate to see you get a pup and then have to give it up later because it becomes aggressive with your child. |
| Josh,
I did read both of your posts in its entirety and I know that you were venting. So was I! Grannie Annie does an intense interview - she does try and talk people out of getting an OES - because she sees what happens. If you were in her shoes - you'd do the same thing! Like I said, I wish breeders were as careful in their selection of homes. You have every right to vent - and I also noticed that you indicated to "flame away". I don't feel that I was flaming you - but knew that you were open to criticism of your post. I would encourage you to join NEOESR and see what goes on - it wouldn't be long before you realized why G/A does what she does in her screening process. I only mentioned Golden Retriever rescue because you would assume with the reputations of Goldens and children - Golden Rescue would not hesitate to place a rescue in a home with children. Surprisingly that's not the case. I have the utmost respect for G/A and the work that she does! She puts her LIFE into saving OES and OES mixes (and some not so OES). NEOESR has placed dogs in homes with children - and some have gone well and others have failed miserably (resulting in the biting of a child). I'm sure if you spoke to one of those families - you'd see the pain they went through and know why G/A is so careful. She's had to make heart breaking decisions. Step in her shoes - you will understand completely! She's doing what is best for the dog - that's her first priority. She's trying to prevent another OES ending up in Rescue in the long run! I hope you find an OES to add to your family - whether it be a rescue or a from a breeder. Prove G/A wrong - she'll be the 1st to admit you did so! Kristen |
| Thanks. By the way, I am a memeber of NEOESR. |
jsmarcus wrote: And at the end of the day, if she won't give me a dog, then I'll find someone else who will.
You would be surprised how many people "find someone who will" and then have to go to Grannie Annie for help afterwards! She spends hours on the phone "counseling" people and many more hours responding to people's emails about problems they are having with their OES - many of whom aren't even rescues! |
| Hi Josh:
I can understand your frustration at having so much difficulty in getting a rescue OES. Particularly when you've had one before and really enjoyed it's companionship. However, I also understand G/A's viewpoint as we adopted a one year old OES from her one month ago. The dog was turned in because it bit a 3 year old child and the mother felt that she could no longer trust the dog. I suspect that G/A has seen many sheepdogs that have been given up once a baby joined that family - and that she doesn't want to see that happen to another dog if she can help it. By the way - while we think Cassiopia (our rescue dog) is absolutely wonderful, we are being very cautious as we introduce her to other people and kids. She doesn't know her own strength yet and loves to play - cheerfully knocking over everything in her path, including adults. Good luck in your search for a sheepie and please keep us informed. |
| Our sheepies do knock us over at times. Oreo my sheepie boy now has a herding instinct that is new to us when walking side by side he will swing his paw over my foot and I will be launched, it sounds funny but I have been hurt a few times. Now one of us goes first it is only a step but it saves ware and tare on my knees. My first boy used the cat as his lamb. He would make him walk all around the house he stuck his nose under Fuzzy's butt and made him stand and off they went. Dudley was a ear kisser and now and then a nip was added it was part of his being he was doing his herding thing. This type of behavior is very upsetting when you have a toddler they can get hurt and it is innocent on the part of the sheepie dog this is what they do. I hope some can see one connection with kids and sheepie dogs. Remember when you brought home your first dog or cat, their life as they knew it was turned upside down. With time and love and training we help our sheepie fit into our home. The more times a dog goes from home to home the more his being is upset he can become insecure and wonder when do I move on they need lots of support to made to feel that they are welcomed. Rescue works for the rescue dog and they must come first to make an adoption a success for the dog and its new family. It takes a little time to think about the reasons why rescue do the things they do. I'm trying to help do don't shoot the messenger here. Dolores |
BritPresSyd wrote: She spends hours on the phone "counseling" people and many more hours responding to people's emails about problems they are having with their OES - many of whom aren't even rescues! its true... shes been so great to me and walter, she answers all my emails quickly and fully and i appreciate it sooo much!! josh- my only advice is be careful with puppies from breeders too! walter is from a "reputable" breeder and theres no way i could start a family with him in my house! |
| Let me see if I can explain this from my perspective. When a dog comes into rescue, I know NOTHING about it. I don't know what trauma the dog has gone thru and how a dog will react in every situation. Fostering the dog for awhile helps, but I can't be sure about everything. If I place what I consider a mild dog into a family with children and the dog snaps, maybe never makes contact with the child, I stand a very good chance of being sued.
And what about that dog? He's returned to me (if Animal Control doesn't impound it first and put it down) but now I have a candidate with a known history of snapping........it doesn't matter the child had a nut cracker around the dog's nose.......the dog snapped. If I try to place it and Animal Control finds out, I loose my permit from them. Also, who will be willing to take this documented snapper dog? Families with children are already stressed for time, adding a dog into the mix, who will be short changed in personal care time? Obedience classes are missed, home training is ignored, supervision of the dog and children is lax. Go ahead and vent. It is understandable, but also realize if I'm busted and must close my rescue, a lot of sheepdogs will die. My priorities are the dogs. |
| I thought I would chime in on this one, since I resucued an OES last year from a Arkansas shelter. OK Josh, here's our story: I have a friend that lives in Arkansas and she said that a Bearded Collie came into the shelter and would be put up for adoption, so she knew that I wanted a Beardie and gave me a call. The dog was very matted and had to be shaved down and was alittle on the large size for a Beardie. I must have asked 20 times are you sure this is a purebred Beardie. The answer was always yes.
Well, I had the dog flown to Michigan and thought she looked really big for a beardie and she was totally shaved down and I didn't know what a Beardie looked like shaved so I took her to a Bearded Collie breeder who said that she was indeed an Old English Sheepdog. Then, I took her to an OES breeder (who is also OES rescue) and she said that she was OES with a tail. My OES has alot of emotional bagage that I'm still working on a year later. The shelter didn't tell me anything about her temperment like: she doesn't like her hair brushed and will show me her teeth. My arms were black and blue from her mouthing me outside because she wanted off the leash. She also likes to bark outside nonstop. She is shy of men until she gets to know them. I think she was abused. I'm thankful that there are people like Granny Annie (who I don't know) who take the time to question, and is a expert on the OES breed. I'm still learning about the breed. I'm not mad at the shelter in Arkansas, they have learned from this situation. I send them updates on my Girl. The shelter knows that she went to the best possible home. This was the first time a dog was sent out of state. I never thought about owning an OES, and now wouldn't have it any other way. I just love my girl! Best of luck to you in your search for an OES. 
Karen |
| Thank you, all of you for all of your points of view, it's great to hear all sides of this as well as to hear the support for Rescue in general and GA specifically. And I see now that Rescue may not be the best for us--as it sounds like many rescues turned may have child / biting issues.
However, it still doesn't change my mind about the breed. They are fantastic with children, as long as the children AND the dog are trained accordingly. I look forward to teaching my own children about this great breed of dog in the years to come. |
| didnt mean to imply that he should lie. just saying, the screeners listened to the words and not the meaning. |
| Josh:
Your best option may be to get an OES from a reputable breeder where you can check out the personality of both the mother and father. In addition, you would be able to see the conditions in which the puppy was raised. This would hopefully minimize the risk of getting an aggressive dog. Jennifer |
| Josh- sometimes you have to prioritise. Baby vs. Dog. If you've waited this long for an OES (you said 30 yrs- wow!!), maybe another 3 or 4 years won't hurt. With any luck, you'll have a lovely little baby to help pass the time.
I have a 9 month old female OES named Blue and she's very, very affectionate. Yesterday, she made a break for my nephew. He's 7 weeks old and was sleeping in his carry-cot on the floor. Blue lives outside but, when she saw something new (the baby) she broke in. (She has ways and means of getting the door open and sneaking in very, very quietly). Anyway, she got in and made a bee-line for the baby. My sister screamed and raised the alarm. It's hard trying to pull a 60lb sheepie across a wooden floor when you're wearing socks. I got the dog out and apologised to my sister. Told her that I didn't think Blue would bite. Her response? "I wasn't worried about that. I was just afraid she'd lick his face clean off!" |
| He he he....see...THAT is what I remember as a child with these dogs.....as do my parents and my grandparents who ALSO had one. We shall see what happens, but while we are still very much open to rescue, a puppy may happen....we're in no rush.... |
| Well, now that you've done the interview, etc, surely there would be ONE dog somewhere, sometime that would be suitable for your situation? Does the NEOESR make it a requirement that their placements are always only put with people without or never considering children? |
| That was my impression which is what promoted this thread to begin with! |
| That seems odd. It has been my experience that OES are very good with children (overall). I have 2 now (by the way, my occupation is home daycare) and had one when my oldest son was very small. I can see where the majority of rescues would have trouble adjusting to a new addition, but I can't believe ALL would. It would have to depend on their situation, I guess. When I was very small, around 2 or 3, our family had a very cranky bassett hound. My parents saw to it that I was never allowed close to her, although I wanted to pet that dog in the worst way. A responsible parent would teach their children and their dogs how to behave around each other. And since you haven't had children yet, it's assuming a lot to say you wouldn't be responsible.
Oh, and by the way, our first dog at our present home was a Golden Retriever. We had to give her up because she became aggressive. Beautiful dogs, but it just goes to show that ANY dog can become aggressive, regardless of breed. Good luck in your search, and maybe, just maybe, the NEOESR will find a good match for you. |
| Brenda,
Noone is suggesting that Josh would not be a responsible parent or dog owner. Rescue organizations have guidelines - and many of them do not adopt to families with young children -children being one of the main reasons dogs are placed in Rescue to begin with. On rare occasions - under the discretion of the placement director (with great consideration) - a dog may be placed in a family with young children. There are also guidelines requiring a fenced yard - Yes - some OES do fine without a fenced yard - but the experience of the Rescue organization is that a fenced yard is best. There need to be guidelines to ensure that the dog is placed in the most suitable home for their situation. Each situation is taken into careful consideration and decisions are made accordingly. Placement is very difficult - and because Annie is so careful - they are also very successful in their placements. Please go to www.neoesr.org and read all of the documents listed in 12 Document section (including some testament from some reputable OES breeders) to learn more about the guidelines. Most responsible breeders would advise a prospective owner on the "issues" the breed has with children. They are a large, rambunctious and exuberant breed with a strong herding instinct. They require a lot of time for training and grooming (which most parents of young children don't have). Although the OES you have had may have been just fine with children - the experience of the experts in the breed (including Grannie Annie) would say otherwise. Aggression is not "breed" related - but it certainly can be "breeder" related. An ethical, responsible breeder should be breeding with great care of temperment as well as health. Unfortunately, poor breeding practices has created a surge of aggressive behaviors in the OES. If you don't agree with the guidelines of the rescue organizations - please speak to someone who's adopted a dog only to have it bite their child and have to be euthanized. No, it's not always the fault of the dog or parenting of the child - sometimes it just happens- but the dog is the one who pays the ultimate price. NEOESR does what they can to ensure a successful placement - for the sake of the dog and family. My aunt rescued a St Bernard a month back - well, 3 days later - he bit my Grandmother and my nephew and with great regret had to be returned to Rescue. I only wish that that Rescue organization did a better job at determining suitable placements - it would have saved my Aunt and her family (and the dog) alot of pain and anguish. My Aunt was one of the best homes they could have found - with 40 years experience in the breed - but this dog wasn't right for their situation - and this experience has completely turned her away from Rescue. Failed placements hurt the entire Rescue community. We should be thankful for what NEOESR does do for ALL OES and OES mixes - some OES rescue organizations in this Country have "guidelines" that dictate what dogs they will even assist with - and some refuse to take in an OES just because they have a tail! 
I would encourage Josh to continue his application with NEOESR as well as his discussions with Grannie Annie. Even if a Rescue isn't in his future, the knowledge of the breed he will gain from G/A is worth it! Getting off my soapbox now! Kristen |
| I honestly don't know enough about the guidelines to agree or disagree. I just found it odd that Josh seemed to have gotten a "never". Never say never, right? You don't know that a situation won't come along that's ideal for Josh AND a rescue.
And I do realize that it was luck that brought me 3 great OES. With any breed, or any animal for that matter, you will have some "bad" ones. Same as cars...always a lemon in each make/model. 
Cooper wasn't really a rescue, I got him from a family that had allergies to deal with. But, he WAS already 3, and made the adjustment very well. If you could even call it an adjustment. He was attached to me right from the start, like he'd known me forever. And the one thing I made sure of before I agreed to take him was that he was good with children. Fenced yard, that strikes me as funny. I would agree that it would be better for an OES to have a fenced yard, which we do, but as far as Cooper's concerned, the fence is nonexistant! He sails right over it! |
BrendaM wrote: Fenced yard, that strikes me as funny. I would agree that it would be better for an OES to have a fenced yard, which we do, but as far as Cooper's concerned, the fence is nonexistant! He sails right over it!
That's a case when sometimes that "rule" is broken. If there's a dog that would do better on a leash - than in a fenced yard - then a non-fenced home may be approved. It's very individual and nothing is set in stone. Placing a dog is a science! I don't believe that G/A told Josh "never" - but I could be wrong. NEOESR does all they can to "assess" the dogs before placement (foster homes are always needed!) - G/A often keeps dogs for months to get them "adoptable" - she has gone to great lengths to place dogs that many others would turn their nose at. |
| Well, I wasn't going to reply, but now I just can't help myself...
I (along with other responders to this thread) do volunteer for NEOESR. I am very familiar with the guidelines for adoption, the reasons, how G/A does screening, and the nature of OES rescue dogs (I've had 6). There are a couple of points that resonate with me: * NEOESR has placed rescue dogs in families with children, it depends on the dog and the family. Josh, as a member of NEOESR, has probably seen accounts of those placement in the Tales End newsletter. It is a fairly rare circumstance. * It is true that many/most of the other breed rescue groups have a guideline suggesting that they will not place dogs in homes with children under (some age) or at all in some cases. I coordinate some rescue work with these groups, but don't take my word for it, look at their sites: http://www.ygrr.org/adopt/adopt-note-children.html http://www.gsrne.org/requirements.htm http://www.boxerrescue.com/boxer4me.htm * It is my personal opinion, that it's ideal to raise a puppy with a baby, although this puts quite a burden on mom, and as always, it depends on the puppy. So, what I would do personally, is find a very reputable breeder and put my name to reserve a puppy from a future litter. I'm not about to defend G/A or NEOESR, their fine work over the years stands on its own. They follow a course of action that has proven to be successful over the years and that has been good for the adopters and good for the rescue dogs. Of course those guidelines can be questioned and challenged, that's the way progress is made. Good luck to Josh on finding a sheepie for the family, clearly you are determined to be a sheepie family forever. P.S. One of my former rescued sheepies had seriously bitten two children before she came to (childless) me and one of the rescued sheepies currently living at my house was rescued from a home with 7 children, and he is not entirely trustworthy with children. All my other sheepies, past and present, have been great with children -- depends on the dog. |
| wow!well i feel each and everyone of you have correct opinions. G/A has to make sure that each and every dog that gets adopted will never cross her again.just think of the disappointment she must feel when/if a OES is adopted then weeks/months/yrs later that same dog is brought back for reasons that could of been prevented.it is heart breaking w/ just the thought of an animal(dog) being brought and dumped off for reasons that some times dont make sence.how many times have we read a story about a dog who is oh say 3yrs old,and the owners give her/him up because they are moving?i remember seeing a little poodle who was 10yrs old and the owners just dumped her off at the humane society because they was moving.my thoughts are you bring a puppy/dog into your life that dog IS your family,i as hell would NEVER move some where that i couldnt being my humane daughter,so why would anyone do that to a dog,a buddy for life?this is why people likeG/A have too be so picky when placing a dog into a family. However tho,if it was said that you can NEVER adopt an rescue OES if your planning on a family,i feel that is crazy!!!not every OES that is in foster care is bad w/ small childern.there are ALOT of wonderful OES out there needing families that would be a kids best friend if given a chance.we all are aware of the abuse,and other aweful doings to our beloved OES's,and it is the job of the rescue to find out the personalities of these future family members.theres alot of OES who arent good w/ small kids that have been abused and need that extra TLC to get them through the aweful things done to them,BUT there are some really loving OES that no matter what they have been through are still a little kids best buddy.it wouldnt be fair not to let one of those OES's to ahve their little buddy,would it? |
| Hey Josh-
It's okay to vent- I started to a couple of times on this website and chickened out- I was too afraid that I'd get 'flamed'- you are taking all of this with good humor- please don't stop coming here, you seem very nice! I was also turned down for rescue- I'm not sure why- maybe the person drove by my house and didn't think we were preppy enough... (I am referring to a recently recieved advertisment for Ralph Lauren Polo - featuring none other than a beautiful OES!) I got the cold shoulder, so I don't know, I said I wanted a younger dog, not becuase I do not have the patience or the means to take care of an elderly dog, but because I have a nine year old son who still places wildflowers on the grave of my first OES and sleeps with a big stuffed OES, (and four little ones, dubbed 'the babies') He was heartbroken at losing OES number one, and I couldn't put him through that again so soon. Anyway- I too was turned down, so I feel your pain, I'm a great OES mom, I so 'get' this dog, I think I am a better OES mom than a human mom, I just really understand these dogs, my husband is amazed at how Chelsea and I connect and how I know what she is up to when she is naughty, or how to control her when she is aggressive. I think I would have made an excellent rescue candidate too, but I'll be honest I was really offended and I don't think I will pursue it again. I understand that the rescue organizations have their work cut out for them, I was also dismayed to see the OES in such popular advertising, it will just mean more people getting these dogs who cannot handle them. But I think the rescue process should include a more thorough interview process, not just a polite dismisal over the phone (which is what I got). I also was dissapointed in my case becuase I was not invited to join in the rescue effort as a volunteer in other ways, I have skills, I love these dogs, I could make phone calls, plan fund raisers, sell baked goods, send money---- seriously- at least you were able to join NEOESR. So I went and bought a puppy. And Chelsea is magnificent. And she is horrible with children (just kidding!) She just doesn't know her own strength yet. My first OES never attacked or acted aggressively toward my son, she was seven when he came honme from the hospital, and very much the queen of the castle. She was protective and loving with the baby- she was just always a little miffed with me for not 'asking her' if I could bring him home. Good Luck! Up. |
| you sound like a really neat person uppty....you also sound like someone who loves sheepies as we all do,arent they just silly creatures??LOL!! sounds like your new baby girl is very lucky to have a buddy just waiting to play w/ her.i think there is nothing sweeter than the love between a child and their dog(buddy).your son sounds like a perfect buddy for such a big goofy dog like OES's. i agree there should be more of an interview when someone truely wants to rescue an OES,more times than not a OES who is lets say agressive that behaviour can be broken w/ LOTS of love and a whole lot of understanding.also i know it is very scarey when you have small childern so it really is hard to make such big decissions. but congrads on your baby!!!tell your son he is so wonderful an dhave happy yrs w/ his new buddy |
| Feel free to join NEOESR, membership is open to all who pay the price of admission (currently $20 for the first member in a household, and $10 for each additional member).
That includes 4 issues of The Tale's End. I'm sorry that your encounter with NEOESR left you with a bad feeling. I am especially sorry since I have been on the Board of Directors of that organization for 6 years. We need to improve, but it will be under someone else's aegis, as I have chosen not to run for re-election at this time. |
Tanyathenurse wrote: i agree there should be more of an interview when someone truely wants to rescue an OES,more times than not a OES who is lets say agressive that behaviour can be broken w/ LOTS of love and a whole lot of understanding.
Aggressive behavior can be broken in some cases - but a rescue organization isn't going to take the chance that a child could get hurt by a dog that they've placed - while attempts are made at breaking this behavior. There are real liability issues here - and one incident could risk the entire future of a rescue organization (putting thousands of dogs at risk). I'm sorry that people have been turned down by any rescue program - but realize they have their reasons (and it's not a personal attack). The first dog I placed - I refused to leave at the house that had been selected for him. A home visit had not been done (I was checking the home at the same time as bringing the dog  ) - and the home was entirely inappropriate for the dog. I was a wreck! I was shaking - but I had to go with my gut! I told the woman I was sorry but I couldn't leave the dog - that her home wasn't right for him. The woman was furious with me - needless to say! My feelings were confirmed when I came outside and my sister (who had been waiting in the car) was telling me there was no way I could leave him. Yes - the woman was upset (probably wanted to kill me!  ) - but that wasn't my concern - my concern was for the welfare of that dog! It doesn't make you popular - but that's not why I got involved with Rescue.
Kristen |
just wanted to say i hate when people quote me!!!  yes i understand some agressive dogs can not and will not be broken of there agression,and thats why people like you are so important,to make sure each animal goes tot he right home so that you dont see that same dog come back into the system.No differnt than when adopting a child. |
| You don't have to own a sheepie to join NEOESR and there are many things to be done to run this organization as smoothly as it does. I joined when we were without a sheepie and I can'd do field work like Kristen spoke of due to health reasons but I love crafts and right now I am making a Christmas tree that a dog would decorate for the auction in Oct. Please join this rescue group the people are awesome and spoke to me on the phone for hours yes hours when we lost our Oliver. NEOESR is people helping dogs that need help. |
Tanyathenurse wrote: just wanted to say i hate when people quote me!!!
yes i understand some agressive dogs can not and will not be broken of there agression,and thats why people like you are so important,to make sure each animal goes tot he right home so that you dont see that same dog come back into the system.No differnt than when adopting a child. Sorry Tanya - I couldn't resist!
I just had to comment on the "adopting a child" - I always joke and say it would be easier adopting a child than adopting an OES through Grannie Annie! She's a tough cookie - but that's why she has such success with her placements. |
| HI
In response to what I have read. I have two boys one is considered young by rescue groups. Well we now have Comet. I guess you can say we rescued him. He is a pure OES (mind you I knew nothing about OES when we got him) all I knew is he was going to die. He is 7 months old and deaf. Born to make money for money grubbing breeders they were going to shoot him. (Because he is deaf) Put into hiding (in a garage), basically puppy napped by a good samaritan hoping to find him a good home. After months of not being able to place him she all but gave up. My 8 yr old boy said mom I want to rescue a dog. This big boy was sentenced to death once again by injection. We picked Comet (which my son named him) up that night. Comet did not know what treats, stairs, linoleum, beds, cats or kids were for. Other than being very bullheaded and completely unknowing of life hes wonderful. At first I was concerned about his size and my youngest cuz he is very small. However after one night we all fell in love. I seriously think children should not play a factor in an OES unless it has aggressive tendencies toward children. Comet came from 7 months of literal abuse even by the wonderful lady who puppy napped him the first time. (let me say she fed and groomed him) So with that being said. Dont give up on an OES if you really want one they are out there be patient one will come up It does not have to be a puppy puppy nor does it have to cost you an arm and a leg. |
| That's a nice story. Thank you for sharing. |
| Ok, so let me get this straight he was turned down for any dog from this rescue becuase he might have kids someday? I dont understand why not just put him on a list incase the rescue gets a dog that does like kids. It is possible I am sure.
I dont think agree with the decision but it is not my rescue so I would suggest going to a shelter or another rescue. Samantha |
| I have read all of your post from people. We have a OES she has not once dispalyed any agressivness around little kids or anything. If anything she watches out for them. I think it has a lot to do with the dog. the problem with rescue is they are not even sure about the dog. as the family or who ever could lie to them. I have seen all kinds of dogs bite. Its not so much the breed its the dog its self. remember they are like wolves. dogs are dogs you have to respect them and show them who is in control. everything i have read from akc on ward says oes are the best for families. but i have read that about springer spaniels and i later found out spaniles devleop what they call rage syndrom. every breed has its problem,s I belive it how the dog is rasied. you might want to concider having a baby first and getting a puppy that way they will grow togeather. |
| Hi Josh,
Don't give up! OES are not good with children is a blanket statement. I can say OES are good with children and it would be equally misleading. I'm 52 years old and learned how to walk holding on to an OES. There were SIX kids in our family and we never had a problem. But, that doesn't mean that individual rescue groups don't get OES that aren't good with children or a lot of owner turn ins because there are babies in the picture or a divorce or a job loss or any other conceivable problem. Saying someone can't adopt an OES because they are planning on having children is like saying you can't adopt an OES because you may get divorced, lose your job or may be forced to downsize. NEOESR has obviously gotten many owner turn ins from families who have started a family AND maybe even, a lot of OES who may have been abused by children with irresponsible parents who didn't teach their children how to treat animals. There are also OES out there who have been turned in because they have bad temperaments and just can't be trusted. I have had in my own home some of each and prior to seeing this beloved breed acting like this, I, too, would have said "NO WAY!! These guys are GREAT with kids!" Now I simply say "some are, some aren't"! Working with any rescue group, you'll find that each has differing opinions and each places according to their own personal experiences and what they are able to place specifically to their location, as well. There are some OES rescues who are only able to place young, purebred OES in their areas, some who can place older, ill, mixed breeds and some who can place all. My suggestion to you? Go online and fill out applications for ALL the OES rescue groups, answer all the questions honestly and volunteer to foster or transport or whatever you are able to do as an individual or family. One of the groups may just get in a rescue that has been raised with kids, loves kids, but for financial or a death in the family (dog forbid to any of the reasons!) needs a home and wants to place in a home with kids (or future kids) AND with responsible former OES breed familiar folks. I'm a firm believer in what's meant to be, will be and I'm sure if you are meant to have one, that there's an OES out there with your name on him or her just waiting to find you! Take care and best wishes to you and your family on all fronts! Cathy and the Wigglebottoms |
| This is an old post and Josh is already the proud Dad to Pooh Bear - one of the cutest puppies ever! I don't think he could be happier with any other dog! |
| Great news for Josh, but this topic is something that is obviously other than a "timely" issue. I feel opinions and posting all sides with a little background can only help rescue groups and OES. People looking to rescue should know all the options available to them, don't you think? There are tons of ways to help rescue and a lot of groups who do things differently and that is NOT to say that one group is absolutely right and others or wrong. It all depends on circumstances, location and individuals involved and their experiences. So if you get turned down by one rescue group, contact others and there just may be one out there who needs you as much as you need them!
Best wishes to all present, past and future OES rescuers out there! Cathy, pefectly happy with the older and sometimes obnoxious guys! : ) P.S. Volunteer to foster and transport : ) The proceeding post has been an unsolicitated endorsement for all OES rescue groups : ) |
| Absolutely - everyone should be able to voice their opinions (respectfully, of course). I was just making sure people were aware that Josh already found a wonderful puppy for his family!
The volunteers who do OES Rescue have a big JOB and I don't envy them at all. Tough decisions have to be made and often people are disappointed. I've been disappointed myself (very recently, in fact)- hoping to get a Rescue that turned out to be inappropriate for my lifestyle.  I respect their decisions - as they have the dog's best interest at heart (and every other dog that will need their help in the future). It took 2 years for me to rescue Sydney! Of course, I had wanted several rescues before her and got turned down on a few - it just wasn't "right". I am so glad how it turned out - I couldn't have asked for anything better. Patience is a virtue.....
Kristen |
| Getting a rescue dog is just like getting a puppy, there is an interview before rescue or the breeder decides if they think you would be the best home for their puppy. NEOESR is very successful at what they do, why is that? Dogs are not just turned over to a new owner. The dog comes first in all situations. There is always that question who will be home during the day with the dog/puppy. Yes that does figure into the decision. The best way to understand rescue is to join a group and listen |
| The adoption process takes patience, but is well worth the wait! Now the flip side of the adoption process? Well, that takes patience and tongue biting! : )
I've kept this application for adoption for going on 10 years now and it is only one of HUNDREDS that I've received...the name and any pertinent information is not included for obvious reasons, but I thought you might all get a glimpse into some of the paperwork facing placement directors in general...this WAS A REAL PERSON. When I got this, I really thought it was a joke and I called to see if I could figure out who was pulling my leg! Do you have a fenced yard? No, but my neighbors do. Why do you want an OES? The carpet in my house is gray and I thought one of these dogs would go well with my decor. Have you ever owned a dog? Yes What kind? Bearded Collie What happened to this pet? It died. Do you have other animals? I did, but I found out that I really don't like animals and dropped them off at the shelter so they could find them homes with someone who liked them. Have you ever lost a pet? No, but my dog wandered off and got lost a lot. Has one ever died? Yes, it was hit by a car in front of my house. Where will the dog be during the day? outside in the yard. I have a VERY big yard. Where will the dog be at night? Outside. I'm a flight attendant and am not home very often. There were answers that floored me...literally and I still have some of my "favorites" on file. She did get points for being honest. I've done home checks that didn't match EVEN CLOSE to what was on the application, so honesty is very important! Another hint...it's not a good idea to have your dog sitting at the table eating burgers and fries with the family when a rescue homecheck is being done....just a hint! : ) Sad, but true and this woman was really angry and even threatened to sue me (HA) when I told her I couldn't help her....only God could help her..... Bottom line...lots of groups and each group is really different and if it doesn't work with one, try another as they may have the right "fit" for you. Anyone planning on "Future" children and wants to adopt from NEOESR? Ask them about fostering or adopting a much older dog. GA may be very willing and open to a different arrangement. Can't hurt to ask! I DO know not ONE of the groups I've worked with would let THIS person adopt and I sincerly hope there are no children in her future! LOL! Cathy |
| Scary isn't it! I've seen reasons of people giving up dogs being "they don't match with the decor".
It's a shame not all breeders do the screening that some of the rescues do - there would be a lot fewer dogs needing to be RESCUED! |
I sometimes think we spay and neuter the wrong species...
A strictly personal opinion by one who has delved deeply into various gene pools and found the water way too murky to go there....
Cathy |
| cathy wrote Quote: I sometimes think we spay and neuter the wrong species...
I agree. I know many people that just shouldn't breed!! |
| LOL!! But they do anyway, don't they??!!
Have a good night! Cathy |
| i had 5 oes ages 14 down to 6. My husband became severly ill and I have had to make the devestating decision to place them up for adoption. i was lucky and found this web site and was directed to Grannie Annie. Although heartbroken, Annie has found homes for 2 of my babies so far. One I will keep due to her age. I have tried to be very honest with Annie as to how my dogs act and interact but can't assure anyone how they will be once away from me. number one i'm grateful to Annie and her org. for the job they do. I choose to go through her and neoesr because of the way they select homes for the dogs. my babies have been removed from their safehaven, from their family, from the love and affection they once had. And i DO NOT want them to have to be moved again because of some oversight. In my situation they are not only interviewing potential homes but have been to my home to see my dogs, take photos and interview me. Please remember that it IS the dog they are concerned about, number one because of their love for them. and if you love the breed you should not have a problem with someone making the tough decisions involved in placing these dogs, you should be grateful. I for one am very grateful and am patiently awaiting for Annie to help place my last two females. I'm in Indiana and she's in NE, working very hard to find my dogs homes that will be forever. and although i will never forget my babies and will suffer this lose for a long time, i find comfort in knowing that Annie and the others involved, have done their very best to place my kids in the best possible homes. |
| Dear mouthypf,
I am so sorry that you needed to find new homes for your dogs. The distress of your husband's illness and placing your family pets must be hard for you. I am happy that NEOESR is involved in finding new homes for your dogs since great care is taken to find just the right match between the dog and their new family. As difficult as your decision must have been, it took a lot of courage for you to take the course of action that was best for your dogs' wellbeing. Best wishes and prayers for your husband's recovery. |
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