Virginia Tech Massacre
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| I just now read about it ...horrible
There doesn't seem to be much info yet on who, or why. |
ravenmoonart wrote: I just now read about it ...horrible
There doesn't seem to be much info yet on who, or why. It was some Asian American guy. I only mention that because usually it's the white guys that pull crap like this. |
| I just read about this too. How horrible. I hope this is a wake-up call for other Universitys. If it can happen at V-tech, it can happen at any University. Last I read was 22 dead. How on Earth can someone do something like that? Poor families. |
| Last I heard the dead toll had reached 32. It's very strange for me because I am sitting in a dorm room right now at my school. I cannot imagine something like that happening. I've been hearing everything on the news from reports that the shooter had been having relationship problems and was looking for his girlfriend to that he was having trouble with a professor. The video they have been playing that was taken by a student when you hear all the gun shots is very haunting. |
| This is so sad.
My nephew and his wife graduated from there not to long ago. I know they still have friends on campus. My sister lived just a half a block from Columbine and knows first hand how traumatic it all was. My heart goes out to all of those involved. |
| I can't imagine what would bring anyone to commit such violence.
My parents live in Rolla, Missouri--home to the University of Missouri-Rolla. There was a recent situation where a college student who was distraught over grades made "terrorist type threats". He basically made a bomb threat and said he had anthrax (which turned out to be powdered sugar). Needless to say there were a lot of nervous people but it ended without incident. I only wish we could say the same about Virginia Tech... |
| Terrible, have not heard anything here yet, is it another school shootings?
If so what is wrong with society today, seems to be happening too often  |
| I am in shock.
My son just called me, he has been on the VA Tech Campus for the last few days at a conference, he left early this morning to come home. He heard the news as he was headed home. He is dreading school tomorrow because he knows that many of his students have brothers and sisters at VA Tech and hasn't heard if any were involved. I don't think I have ever been as effected by a news event as I was the Columbine shooting and since that time it just happens over and over and over. I just can't comprehend it. |
| I heard it on the news at about 4:30, my jaw just dropped. It is really heart breaking for the family's. |
| I'm heart broken for all involved, even the surviors who will have to live with this memory. And, I'm scared for my daughter who goes to a University here. I hope they find out why this happened. |
| Heartbreaking- Just heartbreaking |
| My heart breaks for all the families involved.
I keep waiting for something like that to happen here with all the problems they are having at the schools here in Baton Rouge. Such a shame and heartbreak. |
| It is terrible! My little brother goes there and I was very glad to talk to him today.
This world we live in just keeps getting scarier. My heart goes out to all of the families involved. |
| This is just horrible! I agree, this stuff "is" happening too often.
I think what makes it worse is the fact that those guilty of pulling the trigger are COWARDS. Regardless of why they did it, they don't have the guts to do their dirty deed and at least try to RUN. They perform scene one of their play, in which they're the stars. (So they think - in their mangled minds) But, there is no second scene where the "so called stars" are captured and put on trial to receive their punishment for the crime. We've also become to lax on punishment. When I was younger I was against the death penalty, as I've gotten older I've changed my mind in some cases. In cases like this, no matter the age of the person pulling the trigger, whether it be 9 or 90, they asked for the death penalty when they pulled the trigger. Our kids need to see people punished for the crimes they commit, not just slapped on the wrist. It would make some think twice knowing there would be severe consequences for their actions. jmop |
| Something has to be done as this type of situation should NEVER EVER be allowed to occur again. This week also is 8 years since the columbine tragedy, has anyone learnt anything from that tragedy, obviously not too much was learnt there.
Is gun control the answer and making guns not so accessable to the general population? We had the port arthur and hoddle street massacres here and that's when finally a strict gun control legislation was brought in, making gun ownership harder unless you are a hunter, farmer or belong to some sort of gun sports club or a legitimate reason for ownership of a gun, all have to be licensed, owners have to store there guns in a Weapons Safe and no criminal record to have owership of a gun Has it made a difference to gun related crimes and tragedys, it sure has. I know in your constitution that part of that is the "right to bare arms", but really should everyone in a population be allowed to have that right? Hit the news here late this morning an Aussie exchange student was caught up in all the events too, such a dreadful dreadful thing to happen to innocent people, I don't know how anyone witnessing this, wounded, and the families that lost loved ones will ever get over this.  |
lisaoes wrote: I know in your constitution that part of that is the "right to bare arms", but really should everyone in a population be allowed to have that right? Which ones shouldn't? They have taken away those rights of anyone who has been convicted of a felony, a violent crime, merely accused of domestic violence, mental illness. There are waiting periods for and background checks of handgun purchasers. In my state, 351 local police chiefs have the (almost) final say over whether someone may be issued a permit to carry a pistol or other forms of force.
Would outlawing guns reduce violence? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps it would wind up shifting the violence into other forms or into other segments of society, or to different victims. Maybe it would make everyone safer. We have a complex society. Guns (lots of them) have been around here forever -- I think it is something else in our society that is causing this form of mental illness. |
| I agree with you Ron. I am totally anti gun but I don't believe that the sort of madness that causes these tragedies would be deterred in any way by anti gun legislation OR by the death penalty. A person who comitts such an act doesn't care what the consequences are and certainly cares little whether there is a dealth penalty or not. They will get a gun and commit their crime no matter what we do to try to stop them. It's like telling a suicide bomber they will be killed if caught. DUH. |
| I had heard last night on a talk radio station that guns were not allowed on campus but some were trying to make a change so that law enforcement on campus could carry weapons.
My opinion, like others have mentioned, that in cases like this it really wouldn't make a difference either way. A press conference should be taking place in the next 15 minutes or so... |
| This is just heartwrenching and unimaginable. I can't even imaging the horror if it all. I choked up this morning while watching Good Morning America's coverage. My heart goes out to anyone affected by this horrible tragedy |
lisaoes wrote: Something has to be done as this type of situation should NEVER EVER be allowed to occur again. This week also is 8 years since the columbine tragedy, has anyone learnt anything from that tragedy, obviously not too much was learnt there.
Lisa, I don't think it's the guns, it's people in general. And, as much as it stinks to think this way, some things like this are absolutely unpreventable. How do you plan or safeguard against a mad man running around a campus shooting someone? Especially in a campus with that many students, how is it possible to pick up any warning signs from someone who just blends into the crowd with everyone else? I don't think you can. I think what happened is horrible but I don't think that there's any way that they could have predicted it or stopped anything. Even metal detectors and a security guard at the door would likely have just been one more death. |
| I agree totally with Lisa. Remove the guns from the general public.
Yes the lunatics will still get them somehow, or find another way, but the likelihood of this happening would be reduced. If nothing changes things will remain the same. |
Bosley's mom wrote: If nothing changes things will remain the same. Why? Nothing has changed yet this has started happening?
Or you could argue that the few gun controls that have been passed haven't worked as this is "escalating", when there were no rules there were no rampages like this? What is really ticking me off at this time are the Armchair Quarterbacks who are saying that the university is partly at fault for the second shootings... (Of course had they locked down the University and there was a rampage that killed people, they'd be blaming the University for something else. Why is it always blame the victim in this country?) They are saying that there should have been lockdowns, that there should be more security. One was n TV this morning asking "He had time to lock the doors with chains.. where were the cameras and the security guards? Where was the National Guard? Oh give me a break. Can you imagine if we deployed the National Guard everytime there was a murder/suicide or even a double "domestic" homicide...? (Sadly, there was another murder just outside the edge of their campus just a few months ago, they DID lock down the campus and nothing came of it. I wonder if they were criticized for doing that at the time?) Funny thing is, it's not the "right" who are saying this, it's the left, the same people who fight additional security measures. We have a complex society. |
Ron wrote: What is really ticking me off at this time are the Armchair Quarterbacks who are saying that the university is partly at fault for the second shootings...
(Of course had they locked down the University and there was a rampage that killed people, they'd be blaming the University for something else. Why is it always blame the victim in this country?) We have a complex society. The large majority of my patients are Cornell University Professors and employees. It has been an interesting discussion today. I too am appalled at the people who need to "place blame" on the President of the University. Shuting down a University would be like locking down a city, impossible to do. The comparison was made today that at any given time on the Cornell Campus there are more people than in the entire city of IThaca. No one would ever suggest that the city of Ithaca be "locked down" how could a Campus be? |
| I heard a well known talk radio guy criticize the leadership ability of Presidential hopefuls (of the opposite party) because they hadn't made any type of public announcement or address the situation. SERIOUSLY?!? We're faced with this kind of tragedy and within 12 hrs you're trying to find blame with "the other side"?? That's what I don't like about politics. |
Ron wrote: Bosley's mom wrote: If nothing changes things will remain the same. .......Why? Nothing has changed yet this has started happening?....Many things have changed if we look at the changes that have taken place in the past 30 - 50 years. No prayer in school. No reciting of the Pledge of Allegance to the flag. Abortion legalized. Then, abortion for teens, with or without parental consent. Gay rights. Government intervention in parental authority. Condoms being passed out in schools. Drugs for addicts being given away free at clinics. Lawmakers creating more and more new laws without enforcing those that already exist, in order to make something else acceptable. On and on the list goees. What do all those things have in common? In my opinion the answer is "morals." Right verses wrong. Was the country a better place before these things changed, is it the same or is it better? Its become hard for a family to raise their children in a Godly way, with so much wrong considered right. It's no wonder kids get confused. At home, life is one way, but enter the public life and its a free for all. Until we right the wrong we've allowed to take place, I don't forsee anything getting better. According to the law - almost everythings okay. If its not, wait til tomorrow and it will be. We have to have a "right and wrong" (moral) policy to teach our kids. We can't have it both ways, otherwise everyone uses whatever law (excuse) necessary, to to make the wrong they do "their right." jmop (No offense intended. Just referring to laws and the things that I know have changed since I was a child.) God bless America and her people! |
| The references in context were to Gun Control, not an open ended "nothing in the world has changed". |
| Ron I did not realise that they had brought in all those changes for ownership of a gun, just going by what we see here on TV looks like anyone in the states can just go and buy a gun over the counter.
Handguns have always been banned here as they are easily concealed only shotguns/rifles and no high powered weapons at all. The reason I mentioned more gun control is it lessens the amount of weapons in the average surburbia. There has to be a really good reason to own a gun in just the general public. Does it lessen things like violent crime, shooting accidents where kids have got a hold of guns in the house and played with them, or someone who has gone nuts having easier access to being able to get their hands on a gun, it certainly has here.  Crime rates and death related statistics for shootings has dropped enourmously since huge changes here.
Guns that are owned are kept in a weapons safe, bullets have to be kept in another area not with the guns for added safety. There was an amnesty here for guns to be handed in, yes just about every household back then had some sort of rifle/shot gun, hundreds of thousands were handed in and destroyed and now less of them in the general population now. It has made an enormous difference to society here and very rarely now you hear of a gun accident statistic or a crime involving guns. Yes there will always be those that can get access to a gun illegally and committ crimes or murder, but it just makes it harder for them now and it has dropped the statistics of these events occuring as not so many guns around now for them to get a hold of to use. It took us here two major tagedys of innocent people being massacred for these changes to our gun laws. Should Hand guns and high powered weapons be banned there too? I don't know what the answer is but I hope there is one. You also hear of freeway shootings etc in the states, maybe less guns in society may help reduce these things occuring.
I am not anti-gun, just anti anyone having one in the house for no specific reason. Farmers need guns, sport shooters for there sport, hunters, law enforcers etc, but not really mr & mrs average suburbia. |
| I'd strongly guess that your average age has been going up... In fact: Quote: The median age (the age at which half the population is older and half is younger) of the Australian population has increased by 5.8 years over the last two decades, from 31.1 years at 30 June 1986 to 36.9 years at 30 June 2006
Crimes are predominantly committed by those under 25 years of age in the US, how about over there? You have 1/15th of the population of the US. Therefore if a massacre like this happens once every 9 years in the US, based on the same "crime rate" and population, one could expect a similar event in Australia once every 135 years. Or once every 9 years but with the massacre of a total of about 2 people. Your entire country of 3,000,000 square miles has roughly the same population as the state of New York, which has 54,000 square miles. I am not saying that some things aren't the same between our countries, but it is extremely difficult to draw conclusions about what might or might not work in one place over another. I don't know if gun control enforced in the US would have a generally positive impact on gun violence. Here's a discussion on the matter, which -believe it or not- seems even handed: Long link to wicked pedia |
| My nephew, a VT grad, sent this to me.
Thought I'd pass it on.  |
| Well, Now that nasty politics and nastier religious stuff has entered this discussion, I'll be avoiding reading it.
I'll toss my "JMO" bit in first, for whatever its worth... The more we all attack each other, fuss, freak, obsess, etc. over these kind of tragedies, the more we ENCOURAGE the next pathetic loser who wants to go out with a big splash. This is escalation, plain and simple...one person does it...becomes famous and talked about, and the next one has to top them. Its all about creating the maximam amount of chaos and misery (to match the choas and misery that these people feel themselves) Claiming that "the right", "the left" or people who do not share your religious convictions are to blame, plays right into their hands. |
| The dweeb sent NBC a package between the two shootings.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/ |
| How very very sad |
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| This guy was such a turd. The more we hear about him, the more he should be glad that he took his own life because someone would've done it for him really soon if he hadn't beaten them to it. |
| Obviously he needed serious mental help, why didn't his family get him the help he needed? |
| It's not being godless, it's not access to guns, and it’s not our legislators, creating an environment that fosters this kind of event. It's all about "ME". Our society has become so focused on what's good/right/beneficial for "ME", that we don't take action as "US" on problems right in front of our faces. VT is our society's fault.
It is rare for someone that commits the kind of horrific crime like that at VT, not to show symptoms of distress prior to the act. Cho is a perfect example. He had complaints from professors and other students well in advance of the incident. His writings were recognized publicly as bizarre and violent. The "ME" society will notice and possibly chat with someone about another person's frightening behavior, but heaven forbid they be required to follow up, become involved. It's so much easier to be contrite and look for where blame should be placed after the fact. Then the legislators will establish a new rule to make the entire individual "ME's" feel safer. Until the next, creative, whack job breaks the new rule and the body count goes up. But it doesn't make anyone or anything safer, because the root issue has not been resolved. A complete ban of guns would not stop someone like Cho from acting out his anger. We only have to look at the Middle East and suicide bombers, to see a means to an end doesn't follow the rules. If Cho wasn't smart enough to build a bomb, he could have waited until there was a large outdoor gathering of students and run his car through the group at high speed. What would the school do then, ban cars on campus and eliminate outdoor events? As much as everyone would love to wrap our world in superman’s cape, it's not reality. We can't protect everyone from all the craziness by making laws. It will change when we become involved and are willing to follow through when something is wrong. Just think if the professor and the girls that filed complaints or the people that were upset about Chos writting had followed through. Everyone on this site would fight with every resource they have to help save a dog. That's the kind of involvement that's necessary to curtail (not stop, that would only happen in a fairy tale) the senseless violence like that committed by Cho. Contrary to popular belief, it's not all about "ME". |
Quote: The more we hear about him, the more he should be glad that he took his own life because someone would've done it for him really soon if he hadn't beaten them to it.
I agree. I just wish he had started with himself. Shellie |
Ok...so I said I was going to avoid this disscussion...but yet...here I am  ...oh well
After reading parts of Cho's "manifesto", and seeing fragments of his tape on the news last night, I was in tears, and sick to my stomach....it was all horribly familiar. As I mentioned in a different thread (about Paula O's friend, and her anti-depressents) I have been the caretaker for a family member with severe mental illness. Mental illness, HOWEVER severe is not an "excuse" for this kind of atrocity, (I am a strong believer in that bad people get sick, as well as good ones) but it definatly takes it out of the "who's to blame" catagory, for me. Yes, various people should have "followed through", but unless Cho had family, or friends around to notice the changes in his behavior, it would have been difficult for most people to recognise. The incoherent, bizarre speech you hear on the tape, is something called "word salad" and it is a symptom of a phychotic break. The writting is classic "hypergraphia" which is another one. The fact that he keeps bringing up religious imagery ("You nailed me to a cross..." etc) is another VERY typical feature of people with severe delusions. As an aside...I've always wondered why this is...I even asked my neices doctor once, if ill people in other cultures thought they were Allah, or Budda, or what have you (as opposed to Jesus) and her answer was.."yes". My neice though she was "married" to Jesus....can you see why I'm a wee but touchy about religion?? |
ravenmoonart wrote: My neice though she was "married" to Jesus....can you see why I'm a wee but touchy about religion??
Did the relationship not end well?  |
ButtersStotch wrote: ravenmoonart wrote: My neice though she was "married" to Jesus....can you see why I'm a wee but touchy about religion?? Did the relationship not end well? Well, you do tend to side with your own family during a bad breakup. (Does this show you that we can be both intellectual and dumb in the same breath?  )
I think a lot of societies problems lie with families. Not just in this case but as Pam said, there is a lack of morals in this world. Being that I have been in emergency services for almost my entire life and was a psych major for most of my college career, I have seen how there are a great amount of people in this world that don't want to take any responsibilities for their actions. Morals and ethics start at home! If people raise their children to be strong people, that would make the world so much of a better place. Strong people know what is right and wrong, know that they can take a stand against what is wrong and they make appropriate choices when it comes to what is appropriate in society. I am completely tired of people calling 9-1-1 to have us discipline their children, take them to the hospital due to a complete act of stupidity or to clean up after their family because they are tired of doing it themselves. I received this file the one day and really, really wanted to place it on our phones. Apparently that was deemed socially inappropriate. http://photos.oes.org/displayimage.php? ... t=0&pos=40 |
Um, Mandy? That's a picture of Clyde. What are you trying to say?  |
| It's not a picture of Clyde when I click on it. Are you delusional and unaware of it? Maybe it has something to do with choosing it from that My Photos thing instead of from the Main photo menu. RON! Help!
Standby, try this: http://photos.oes.org/displayimage.php?album=16&pos=744 |
| Psst. I think it's the wrong image code... |
Um....I'm getting a cute photo of some pups and a parrot...???  |
| Try it now. It had to be something with choosing the link from the My Photos thing from the top of my page. Must make the imaging code specific to each user. |
| ROFL I could see where some people might give you grief if you put that on your phone. |
ButtersStotch wrote: Psst. I think it's the wrong image code...
Hey, and now it's the Altered Art can and poinsetta I gave to my MIL  I suppose some would call it inappropriate...
Sorry, this isn't meant to be a funny thread...I don't think. I agree with Ravenmoonart about the sensationalism and that people want to be remembered for something. Unfortunately, something goes awry in some brains or isn't developed properly and they perceive bad images as "good" or "fun", i.e. violent video games, true crime shows. I'd like to think (and hope) that most people want to be remembered for something good such as rescuing a sheepdog or being a good friend. |
| Maaaaaaaaaannnnndy.....
When you are at the page you want, scroll down and use the URL where it says: "URL:" The link will look like this: http://photos.oes.org/displayimage.php?pos=-##### where the ##### is the image number. Sheeeeeesh. |
| It's a DIFFERENT image now, Mandy....but I don't see 4dognights avatar as being very "controvesial"...?
darn...I'm really curious what the actual pic. is now! |
| I think this is what she was trying to post:
http://photos.oes.org/albums/userpics/1 ... menear.wma |
Ron wrote: Maaaaaaaaaannnnndy.....
When you are at the page you want, scroll down and use the URL where it says: "URL:" The link will look like this: http://photos.oes.org/displayimage.php?pos=-##### where the ##### is the image number. Sheeeeeesh. D'oh, d'oh, d'oh!!!! How long have I been a member here? Sheesh. I can't even remember how to post my own links anymore. Since I can't be on here all day long at work any longer, I'm going to need some after school tutoring. Remedial Forum 101.  |
| For all the people trying to say Where were the parents, the guy was 23 years old and lived hours away from them. He was an adult and there's only so much mental health authorities can do (isn't it a breach of patient confidentiality to tell his parents?). It seems like people were aware of him having problems, but you can't drag someone to therapy if they haven't committed a crime. |
barney1 wrote: For all the people trying to say Where were the parents, the guy was 23 years old and lived hours away from them. He was an adult and there's only so much mental health authorities can do (isn't it a breach of patient confidentiality to tell his parents?). It seems like people were aware of him having problems, but you can't drag someone to therapy if they haven't committed a crime.
Yes, it is a confidentiality breach to tell the family, without the permission of the patient. Also, this kind of "break" can happen VERY suddenly...his parents may have never seen any signs at all. It is quite common for the stress of college, or illegal drug use, to trigger (an already existing) mental illness. |
| If he was having serious problems, isn't there a clause that allows the confidentiality agreement to be broken if he presents danger to himself or others? If not, I think there should be. Yes, he has rights, rights to confidentiality, but those students also had the right to live. |
| Yes, if he is a danger to himself or others.....hmmm
(and I think that fits) Shellie |
jcc9797 wrote: If he was having serious problems, isn't there a clause that allows the confidentiality agreement to be broken if he presents danger to himself or others? If not, I think there should be. Yes, he has rights, rights to confidentiality, but those students also had the right to live.
Yes ....and in my opinion, the fact that he was suicidal should probably have led to that. Also the fact that he was basically stalking some of the female students. My only point, really, was to agree with Steph, that his family was probably not to blame. |
| And that was kind of my point, too, that it probably wasn't his family's fault. And that people are quick to blame lack of morals and the general degeneration of today's society (which I'm not saying isn't happening), but people are individuals and his parents could have provided the most loving upbringing and still bad people can come from good settings. |
| Oh, I agree that his family wasn't to blame. I don't think the school was to blame either. We are a society that has to have someone to blame though. Just sickening... |
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