Making a decision about Echo
Originally, we were going to do the shoulder surgery first since we thought it needed attention first, but now that his back end seems so bad, we're thinking and we've been advised not to do anything and to have him put to sleep. I've never had a dog put to sleep and never dreamed of having it done to a puppy, so I'm not a good judge of when or if it should be done, but I don't want Echo to be in the discomfort that he's in and at the same time the future trauma of so many surgeries. I read the messages about hip displasia and the bunny hopping and that's exactly what Echo has always done; he even hops with both back legs as he goes down the front steps. Ever since he was a tiny pup, he was the kind of dog that hunched up kind of funny, but cute, as he went potty, but his legs didn't support him very well, so he sort of walked as he went; now I know why. We call this Monday, April 2nd, to UC Davis, to get Echo an appointment thru a referral from our vet and then he'll get in to see one of their doctors in May hopefully, so maybe they'll have a better outlook for Echo, but I doubt it. What does a person like me, who wouldn't know when to put a dog down, do in a situation like this? Do I wait for a vet to suggest it to me? It just kills me to think that this sweet, deaf little boy has so many other problems that he has to handle in his little life. Writing it all down like this has me sitting here crying my head off now, but I have the strength to go through Echo's surgeries if it's the best for him; I don't know if I have the strength for the alternative. |
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| Maybe a few questions to ask first...
Would FHO surgery be an option (removal of the femoral head)? Would hip replacement surgery offer him a chance (ask about the possibility of failures)? Can I afford either of these options IF they might allow Echo to live a more comfortable and happier life? I know you mentioned UC Davis... a consult with a top veterinary school that deals with orthopedic challenges is a great place to start to see if they feel anything can be done to give Echo a quality life. I've got a sheepie that has bad hips too and her front legs kind of bow out because she compensates by using them more. These are her x-rays at around 9 months of age, before she was turned over to rescue- http://www.oesusa.com/MadisonXray.jpg She's now just under 2 1/2. I guess the first step is to be certain corrective surgery is not an option for him. As for when the time is right to give that final gift, I think you'll know. It's different for everyone but when life becomes too difficult and there is no more enjoyment, you'll know when it's time. Your vet will also be able to assess him to help determine if the time is right. Remember, it's a gift to end suffering when nothing else can. Hugs to you... I know this is very difficult. |
I dont really have any solid advise to give, but I wanted to tell you that I think you are a wonderful Mom to be willing to consider doing WHATEVER is best for your pup. I think talking to some of the folks on this board that have gone through various orthopedic surgeries with their dogs might give you a clearer idea of what little Echo would be dealing with. On the plus side, he IS very young, and you caught his problems early, so I think its possible that his future could still be bright. My heart goes out to you! I'm sure you will get lots of good advise here....as well as tons of empathy and support!
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| I'm so sorry for this hard situation. I think the advice given above is really smart. Ask for as many educated responses as you can get. |
| I'm so sorry you are in this situation... I really don't know what to say except go with yur gut first, and rely on the experts. |
| I would definitely see what UC Davis specialists have to say.
How old is your pup? I wish you both the best! Please keep us posted. Sue |
| Just wanted to let you know our thoughts and prayers are with you and wee Echo |
| Sending lots of Hugs to you, stay strong and positive for echo.
You'll both be in our thoughts and prayers. |
Collie Mama wrote: even though he seemed as happy as he usually is. I have so much sympathy for having to endure scary medical news and worry about what it means for your sheepie's quality of life. From your post, it all sounds very overwhelming and I was planning to try and write some words of support if you have to make the hard decision to let him go. I do support that, if that's what you think is best. But then, I went back over your posts to remember echo's background and came upon this video you posted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riHuWkHKfHY You are the only one who can decide whether he has sufficient quality of pain-free, happy life but from an outside perspective, I'd say that pup is coping pretty well and definitely enjoying himself. I really hope you get more encouraging news from the specialists. I would ask the specialist how many surgeries he needs, how long the recovery time is, what the prognosis is for whether the surgeries could end his troubles, what are some alternatives, and of course, how much it will cost. Collie Momma wrote: What does a person like me, who wouldn't know when to put a dog down, do in a situation like this? Do I wait for a vet to suggest it to me?
Certainly, it makes sense to discuss this with your Vet, friends, family, etc. But you have to trust that you will know what is best for him. Really. If you are not sure, then I would just wait until the decision seems more clear. Please give your sweetie extra cuddles from me. And make sure you get a hug too. This is alot to handle. |
| That's a heavy load to deal with. You said you've been advised. Who advised you? Was it the vet? Was it maybe because they didn't know you are willing to pay what sound like large costs? Not everyone understands that there are people out there willing to spend as much money on their beloved animals as they would for a person.
I would definitely get more information. Is it because they don't think surgery would be successful? You defininitely need more information. And if you can afford the cost and they think it would be successful I would encourage you to help him if at all possible. I remember your previous post was so hopeful. I hope you are not discouraged by the words of one person, even if it was a vet. I don't know how many people have been given grim or dismal advice from a vet and went on to find another source of help which was a great success. I'm praying for you and Echo that you have all the help you need and clarity to make the best decisions possible and helpful people coming to your aid!
I know from experience that if you express to the vet you will do whatever it takes to get them well, usually that opens a whole different door of available options. I gather that the more normal thing they might hear is to limit the costs and sometimes just assume cost is an issue and therefore don't offer expensive treatments or even make you aware of them. |
| Is Echo currently at a lean weight? Taking off any extra pounds might help to reduce the stress on his joints. We keep Panda skinny hoping we will delay or prevent future surgery. It is not the answer to correcting Echo's problem but it may help him to move easier IF he's carrying a few extra pounds. |
| Wow, way to make me cry with that old video; my sweet little Echo. No, the vet didn't advise me to put Echo down and I won't let any friends talk me into it either because everybody is different about that issue; family might only be concerned with how much money it will cost me. I have a three year old Border Collie who had OCD really bad in both shoulders and I paid over 4000.00 to get him fixed. When Jake, the BC, had his OCD surgery, the vet said that by doing it, the problem would never come back, but Echo's vet said it could. If the hip replacement is proven to be very successful, I have no problem having it done first since it is the most painful right now. I think that no matter how little money I might have at any given time, I would always be able to come up with money to help any of my dogs or goats; luckily, I have a terrific husband who will do anything for our "kids," and he works hard enough so we can. The biggest problem that our Border Collie had with his surgery was that he missed out on his puppy socialization and he's a bit skittish and unpredictable now. Echo, being an OES instead of a BC, doesn't have that type of quirky personality to begin with and he's sweet with everybody and every dog. When I found out about Echo's problems and that I wouldn't get into to see the vet's at Davis until May, I enrolled him in rally obedience classes at my friend's farm, so he's getting calm exercise and lots of socialization before he goes into the isolation of recovery.
Off topic, does anybody have their OES around sheep? My friend has a bunch of sheep and when we visit, we always walk right up to them and they always look like they just can't figure out what an OES is; is it a sheep...is it a dog??? It's very cute, but those sheep sure know when I'm walking up with my Border Collie instead of Echo. |
We have sheep (hence my forum name  ). The OES have much less presence that the Border Collies, and most of the Aussies. The borders have a stronger eye and go at the sheep from all angles easily. The OES tends to be more of a drover.
We had herding classes at our farm for several years, and many breeds attended. I found it very interesting to watch the way my sheep reacted to the different breeds, and individual dogs within breeds. The space between sheep and the dog varied as well as speed and posture of the sheep. We had certain personality sheep we used for different dogs, as well as for dogs at certain levels of their training. Here is Ollie pushing the group: 
This is "hit" - going for the face of a stubborn girl who is trying to hide in a corner and not move. Whitey is very good at this move, and she is not used on beginner dogs - they couldn't make her move. "Hit" is a strong command that gives the dog permission to get a bit stronger with a sheep that won't move. 
And, this is about the perfect speed and interval to keep the flock moving. Not too slow so they unbunch and split away, but not so fast they panic and run (and run over me walking in front of them!!)  |
| I can't offer any advice, but just want to say I am so sorry that you are going through this. I can't imagine how hard it must be. We fall in love with these guys the day we get them, and go through so many trials that only deepen our love for them. Best wishes to you. |
| I have no great words of wisdom- only total sympathy for what you and your precious baby are going through. Please know that my thoughts and prayers are with you.
What a special Mom you are to make sure you have the answers to be able to make the right decision. ((((( Hugs)))))))))) Lori |
| Whatever choices you make I know that they will be the best choices for Echo and for your family. |
I am so sorry you and Echo are facing this  . I have no experience with this but when my Beau was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer I learned everything I could, ask every obscure question that popped in my head, and willingly gave up new furniture, etc, to pay the vet bills. I just knew when the time came to let him go and you will know too. What gave me comfort was that we had done everything possible and I was with him when he drew his last breath. Echo is a special boy with a very special mom, I wish you only good news. |
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