Bearded Collies vs. OES
Thanks, Barbara |
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| There are a couple members on this forum that have Beardies so I am sure they will chime in. I thought about getting a Bearded Collie after my OES passed away because I didn't want to try and replace my dog. After doing some research through the AKC and other breed comparison web sites, the Old English ranked the highest in the herding group for friendliness towards strangers, children & other animals. We live in a small town with big sidewalks and lots of families walking around so it was important to us that he would blend well into the community and our other OES was extremely friendly and gentle as well. They are also very adaptable dogs in any kind of lifestyle, whether you are a couch potato city dweller or active with acres of farmland.
I did see some comments out there that some Beardies can exhibit shyness but I am sure that is not true with all of them as I am sure there are reserved OES's. I met this person that has had both breeds and he tells me that Beardies are easier to train (& smarter?) which I couldn't dispute cuz I haven't been around both of them enough but I do think my doggie is very smart & trainable. Regarding their coats, the Beardies have very fine hair which tends to mat a little more than OES's, even though they both need constant grooming. Bearded Collies are a bit smaller so that is something to consider too. As you can see from this forum, I'm a sucker for an OES so we're on #2 now and quite happy with our decision. |
VerveUp wrote: After doing some research through the AKC and other breed comparison web sites, the Old English ranked the highest in the herding group for friendliness towards strangers, children & other animals. This actually suprises me - because I have found the Bearded Collies to be much more friendly - particularly with children. I think alot of this has to do with the breeding practices. It is so important to get any dog from a reputable breeder. Temperment of both breeds can be problematic if bred poorly. Quote: I did see some comments out there that some Beardies can exhibit shyness but I am sure that is not true with all of them as I am sure there are reserved OES's. This will also have a lot to do with their temperment (breeding) - as well as socialization and training. I haven't noticed a difference between breeds - it's more of individual thing as you said - there are plenty of shy OES as well. Quote: I met this person that has had both breeds and he tells me that Beardies are easier to train (& smarter?) which I couldn't dispute cuz I haven't been around both of them enough but I do think my doggie is very smart & trainable. Also probably depends on the individual dog and the trainer- but I've been told the same thing - but not from a breeder (they're a little biased). I can't judge this - Sydney was easier to train the Presley - but I also took Sydney to obedience class as a puppy - something I only WISH I did with Presley. This could also have alot to do with breeding/temperment. Quote: Regarding their coats, the Beardies have very fine hair which tends to mat a little more than OES's, even though they both need constant grooming.
This I don't agree with - the Bearded Collie coat is much easier to maintain than the OES! It still requires constant grooming - but doesn't mat nearly as much as the OES - who's undercoat is much denser. Both Breeds are wonderful! They are very similar. I like to say OES are like Clowns and Beardies are like Clowns with ADHD!  Beardies are smaller - but alot of the males can be quite big - similar in size to a female OES. Beardies are a little more active than the OES - and very agile!
Do some research on both breeds - and try and meet some in person! Try attending a dog show in your area - it's a great opportunity to meet the breeds and the breeders. The key will be to select a puppy -regardless of breed - from a reputable breeder! There are far more OES being "produced" in mills than there seem to be Beardies! There also seem to be alot more reputable Beardie breeders actually breeding - which can often be the problem with OES - there aren't alot of litters available from reputable breeders. IMHO! If you want to learn more about the Bearded Collie - you can go to the website for the Bearded Collie Club of America. http://beardie.net/bcca/ They have Regional Clubs that often hold "Beardie" events - maybe there would be one in your area. They have Breeder Listings right online - as well as Litter Listings. I've found the BCCA to be much more user friendly and information readily available than from the OESCA. I've been owned by OES for nearly my entire life - Presley is my 6th OES and Sydney was supposed to be my 7th - but grew up to be my 1st Beardie! Although I love the OES - I have found myself drawn to the Beardies as well. My next dog will most likely be an OES - but only because I'm involved with OES rescue and hope to adopt another deaf dog - which deafness is more common in the OES (probably due to them being more popular).
Best of Luck with your decision! Please feel free to email me if you have any further questions. Kristen (Brittney, Presley and Sydney) |
| I can't offer the wonderful educated responses you've gotten, but I wish you the best of luck whatever your choice! I love many breeds of dogs, and wish I could have a few more, but OES is my first love, once an oes always an oes is what I've heard, and believe! LOL 2 dogs in my house is enough for now! (we just need a bigger house!)LOL |
| I agree completely with you BritPresyd that the temperament really depends on the breeder and how you train the dog and I think that most of us on the forum would push that the most.
Now I'm wondering where I read that about the temperament cuz I know I read that someplace (...I know, don't trust everything you read on the web). Here's what the AKC says OES: The old english loves his home & family. He is an extremely affectionate dog who makes an ideal house-dog. Temperament An adaptable, intelligent dog of even disposition, with no sign of aggression, shyness or nervousness. BEARDED COLLIE: Characteristics The Bearded Collie is hardy and active, with an aura of strength and agility characteristic of a real working dog. Bred for centuries as a companion and servant of man, the Bearded Collie is a devoted and intelligent member of the family. He is stable and self-confident, showing no signs of shyness or aggression. This is a natural and unspoiled breed. The Bearded Collie is stable, self-confident, and outgoing. They are very accepting of other animals and people. By nature they love to have something to watch over. They may take charge from instinct and start herding whatever they consider to be their flock. Above all, the Bearded Collie is a family dog who loves children. SO THEY ARE THE SAME! 
Regarding coat, my passed OES had very soft, fine hair and it would mat up very easily. Frank's coat on the other hand is very thick and even if I let it go for a few days I haven't had to deal with any mats yet and his coat is about 7" long in most places now. Maybe I am just lucking out so far. Still a lot of work to maintain either way cuz he sure likes to get himself dirty. So Brit, how do you feel about their ability to be trained? I give you a lot of credit for training deaf dogs so I would love to hear what you think on this aspect. |
I can't compare the ease of training - because I didn't train them both the same way. 
Sydney was fairly easy to train - but I started early and often! Knowing she was deaf from the start - I knew I had to take great care in her training. She is very friendly and outgoing! LOVES CHILDREN!!! Sydney does have some "shyness" issues - but it is clearly reactive - she has a problem with flash cameras (probably relative to her deafness/light sensitivity) so she becomes extremely introverted - hiding under beds, etc. This also happened at training class - due to the intense flourescent lights - so it made some of her training diffucult - she just wanted OUT of there! She also has a very good memory - and if something "negative" has happened to her - she associates that with those surroundings (forever!). For example - when Sydney was 4 months old I took her to a NEOESR meeting and another dog attacked her. Well, 2+ years later - she refuses to go into that room at NEOESR. She completely FREAKS out! At the NEOESR picnic this past June - another dog attacked her (they must know she's not an OES ) - and she was really afraid for the rest of the day - unlike her usual self - which was very upsetting to me! So I would say she is more "sensitive" than my OES - but that could be deafness related - rather than breed related ???
Presley was over 1 when I brought her to training - and I regret waiting! She is very shy and neurotic. This may have something to do with the socialization opportunity she missed in puppy class - but most likely has more to do with her poor breeding! She is very friendly and also loves children - but she is more reserved with strangers and/or strange situations. When someone comes into the house - Presley usually goes and curls up on the bed (in her "Ignore me I'm a Stuffed Animal position") while Sydney is there to greet them! Presley is fearful of alot of things - loud noise, etc. - and will not go on regular "walks" or anything - because that is too scary! She still doesn't "do stairs"!
The only clear difference I can see in the breed - which is not so dependent on the breeding practices and training/socialization is the activity level of the Beardie (and obviously the size issue). Sydney was far more active than any OES puppy I've ever had! I could contain the OES puppies with a baby gate if necessary - not Sydney - she can fly over a waist high door with ease! She can start her leap from the bedroom door and land on the bed that's 5 feet away (often times not caring that she's landing on top of a person!). Kristen |
| I love hearing about your experiences Kristen.... With so much experience in different training and behavioral situations you must be able to handle just about anything. I wish you could meet Dancer in person, to see what you would suggest, or to show me your own training methods. An obedience class is great, but everyone has slightly different ideas on how it should be done. It would be so nice to have breed related classes run by someone like yourself, for only OES, and maybe Beardies
She is a wonderful dog, when at home, in every single other aspect. I couldn't ask for better temperment, and affection, and intelligence, and playfulness, typical sheepie goofiness... I love her so much. LOL Just this whole housetraining thing is so frustrating. I know she can do it, and there could be so many reasons she doesn't. She may sense my disapproval for peeing inside and want to avoid peeing in front of me at all costs, she may have decided linoleum is her preferred substrate to pee on, she may have decided she should only pee on snow and once it melted that was it. She may not want to pee outside because of the constant noise and strangers. It may be a combination of all these things, either way, I just need to figure out how to help her associate peeing outside with good things, but she needs to give me more chances for postive reinforcement! At almost 8 months old those puddles are almost ponds, and they run under the trim along the wall because the house is a little sloped in spots, which makes cleaning that much more difficult. I'm glad at this point that I got Sky at 7 weeks while all this construction and stuff has been going on, she could care less about the people, the noise or even the crazy old man and his rackety lawn mower. She just pees outside and carries on popping the heads off the dandelions. LOL |
I appreciate your comments but I'm not an expert - by far! I have my share of problems too! For example - I failed miserably in teaching the dog's not to jump on people! I could have easily done it - but I didn't spend the time. I'm like a magnet for a dog to jump on - even dogs that are typically well behaved think it's okay to jump up on me!  I got in trouble at Grannie Annie's on Saturday because all the dog's jumped on me and I allowed them too!  
Socialization is such an important role in training any puppy! Formal obedience class - with someone who teaches positive reinforcement is also important. There are alot of different methods of training - and you'll find your own method - but the interaction with the other dog's is crucial - including having them learn with alot of distractions, etc. I feel for you Willowsprite in terms of the housebreaking problems - because you KNOW that she's capable of learning - and you've got one stubborn little princess!
Maybe getting her more involved with other dogs will help - are there any dog parks around you??? I wish I could meet Dancer & Sky - but that may put your back at square one with training them not to jump!
Kristen |
| LOL.... isn't it funny how a well behaved dog who normally doesn't jump will jump on just certain people whom they obviously really like, and know is a sucker for dogs! LOL
Dancer is pretty much jump free now, lol, except with my little brother! My little brother is 17 years old, and Dancer loves him to death! She jumps on him like crazy every time he comes over, or we go over to their place. I keep telling him to be firm, tell her No! Off! and then tell her to sit and praise her, but he makes the biggest mistake, he tells her in a baby voice, "oh it's ok Dancer, get down now" and pets her while she's jumping! My older borther, on the other hand, Dancer is terrified of. He's 35 yrs old, and happens to be one of the construction guys....lol... he's a roofer. So, that is unfortunately how Dancer met him, while he was up on the roof right next dorr banging his hammer scaring her. She won't even let him touch her, and she won't even try to sniff his hand. Dancer is great with other dogs, my family is very close, and when get together at least every weekend, and almost every day through the week when everyone is on holidays. My parents have a huuuge fenced in yard so there's my parents husky cross, and my uncles golden retriever, my cousins beagle, and my other cousins lab cross, and Dancer and Sky! They love it, and have a blast. My Dad has a pool just for the dogs, and spoils them all rotton. He doesn't much care for the beagle...lol... but my dad has trained all the dogs to play 'search and eat'. He kind of does an 'easter egg hunt' with marrowbones. There is a huge wrap around deck, and wooden planters all around it that are about 3' tall. Dad hides marrowbones in the planters, first he lines up the dogs and makes them sit and stay while he hides the bones. After he hides them all, he will sometimes tell them all ok go get 'em! And they will all scramble to get as many as they can. Or sometimes he will line them up, make them sit and stay, and then one dog at a time is instructed to go to a certain planter to get a treat, then come back and sit while the next dog goes. It's amazing really. He's already started teaching Sky the marrowbone trick, but since she's little he carries her to the planter, shows her where it is and lets her eat it .
Dancer will sometimes get a marrowbone, and take it over to my parents dog and drop it in front of him then lay down and roll over, I guess showing him that she knows it's his house and he's in charge. |
That sounds like fun! My kind of family! 
Life is so much more enjoyable when we can take our dogs with us and they all get along! |
| "Both Breeds are wonderful! They are very similar. I like to say OES are like Clowns and Beardies are like Clowns with ADHD! Beardies are smaller - but alot of the males can be quite big - similar in size to a female OES. Beardies are a little more active than the OES - and very agile! "
Well said, LOL! Chad, the BC, was a friend to all, lover of all. Quick to greet, but also quick to defend if necessary. All my dogs fell in love with him immediately.....very unsual as my sheepie bitch is a real bitch with strangers. His coat was softer and had more undercoat, than any sheepie I've had, save Maudie. He was a barker! This is one comment I've noticed over and over on the beardie email groups. The breed does bark. So not a dog to be left alone in the back yard for long periods. After awhile I began to think of Chad as a sheepdog on shorter legs and having a beautiful tail. A real love who died tooooo soon. sheepieboss |
They sound like they are similar but what seems to stick out most is the Bearded Collies are more hyper and smaller (depending on the dog of course). Thanks everyone for putting in your opinions. I have wanted an OES for a long time and am familiar with them but I just wanted to double check about the Beardies since someone mentioned them to me. I don't really think you could go wrong with either one but I'm going to stick with the OES and I'm hoping my puppy will be born soon. Actually its a little farther off than I'd like since the litter is planned for this fall. I would love to have it now. 
Thanks again, Barbara |
| Barbara... they're worth the wait! It gives you time to read up some, decide on a good food, pick out a great vet, get some books about the breed and training, find an obedience class in your area, and purchase all your grooming tools, and a crate if you wish to use one. They really can be a lifesaver.
Where are you located? Where are you going to get a pup from? And welcome to the forum! Please let us know how it goes! |
| I forgot to also add that I read through the OES List that Disney started filming a new Shaggy DA movie in June. Instead of using an OES they are using a Bearded Collie. Apparently the breed switch was due to the fact that the Beardies are easier to train, for whatever that's worth.
Personally I always thought OES's looked like people in Dog suits because their hips are so wide but I guess with the digital effects they don't have to dress the actor up in an actual dog costume anymore. |
| I just thought I'd post this link to some Beardie pictures of a Picnic they recently held....
http://www.ttsint.com/gisselle/picnic043.htm I can't help but grin everytime I see them. Obviously, by looking at the pictures you can see that the Bearded Collie is very "animated" like the sheepies! Kristen |
| Ok it is here where i have A LOT of experience, so i will throw my 2cents worth in.
These are all observations from owning both breeds and training them, living with them etc etc. I have had Beardies and OES, all have been with us from early puppies right through to old age, My present OES is only now 10 months old. PUPPY STAGE The Beardie charicter is a little more subdued, not by much. but a little and can make a difference in a young household, i.e with children. The OES traits of jumping, nipping, and generall hooliganism can be daunting for a young child below the age of 8 or 9. DO NOT however underestimate the beardie for hooliganistic traits, it will be a very lively pup but wont have the physical size. Training. I found the Beardie to be more suceptable to training at an earlier age, the OES has too much going on in its head to take much notice untill its about 6 months old, the beardie will take things on at about 8 to 10 weeks if you can catch it...
In later life, although the Sheepie will have better herding instinct, the Beardie will outshine it in the working dog class. By this i mean, as a TRUE working dog. I know this by a lot of experience, my old Beardie won a few working competitions, my OES hasnt even started working training yet because of the *too lively* attitude. However, i have seen some brilliant examples of OES in the working environment, but it seems just too rare and i live in the prime location for this study. I found both breeds VERY intelegent, and i cannot find any distinction or difference between either breeds. Both have there quirky behaviour, and both have the psycotic look in there eyes when in full mischief mode
Grooming The OES and Beardie have a full long coarse coat with underlying fine downy fur. Both need the same ammount of grooming and care, the OES has more fur per-se because of its physical size. Neither breed is a hot enviroment dog. Excersize. Both breeds need the same excersize routine, mine have between 2 to 6 miles a day depending on how energetic i feel after or before work. I found that because of the ease of early training, the beardie was better to take off the leash at a younger age, the OES is a little (not by much) more lively as a pup off the leash. 
A word of CAUTION here though. Walk at an early age at you peril, both breeds are suceptable to leg and hip displacia and ligament problems. The main cause is attributed to long walks too early in life. This information has been passed to me by experience first hand and by vetenary surgeons and breeders. I have taken a routine with my OES, that is never the same route or length. I now differ the time i take her out as well, this controls the bossy nature of the dog when it comes to walk time .... i.e. if you stay at the same time every day, the dog will be EXPECTING its walk at that time. When my OES started walking in earnest, she was out for only 1/2 hour per day at 5 months, then a gradual increase per month to build up her muscles.......DO NOT WALK TOO YOUNG OR TOO FAR.....resist that temptation at all costs However, the obidience of my 2 dogs, the beardie had a more *im gonna do what i want to do....and sod your luck* attitude, where as the OES is more aware of my commands, maybe it is down to my experience in training gained with the Beardie has paid off with the OES....maybe ? Kids No worries on either breed, only the size consideration......and the Beardies lack of the *leapy sheepie* syndrome. Travel Both of mine travelled very well with no sickness or ill effects. They also get quite a laugh from other road users, sitting bolt upright in the seats looking around with there fur in the wind. Welcomes This is an area which i love, both of these breeds are true to the owners and show unlimited ammount of love and respect. Only in my Beardies dieing week did she not get up to greet me and ask to go out for her walk. People and strangers. The OES shows superior protective nature to its property and its owners. The Beardie is just to damn laid back in nature to bother with any agressive stand to intruders. Both are good with *invited* strangers and will tend to want fuss to ease them into this from the strangers. When out and about, i have to keep the OES on her leash if there are a lot of strangers about, all she wants to do is go and greet them and play (maybe its her age) and a lot of people dont understand sheepie love 
All in all, there is not much between the breeds, both have so close genetic make up, it boils down to size and looks. I have been pleased with both breeds (i have had a few others too) but i keep coming back to the Beardies and OES. The reason i changed from Beardies to OES is simply, i couldnt replace my Jessica with another beardie, so i opted for a breed so similar yet not quite the same. |
| Bullshot,
Is this your first OES? If so, I'm curious to see how you find the grooming requirements once his adult coat has come in. I find the grooming of my Beardie to be much easier than my OES. Please let me know what you think - when the time comes! thanks Kristen |
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