I can't believe this!
The breeder that we got our puppies from advertises on PuppyFind (a topic near and dear to everyone's heart, I know). I posted a factual, negative review about this breeder on PuppyFind. The review was visible for one day. I went back to check today, and it's GONE. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I am. I am just stunned. I have contacted PuppyFind (via email) and asked them if they only post positive reviews and if so, how can we warn others about irresponsible breeders? I told them that I was hoping that it is just a mistake and I was awaiting their reply. If it's not a mistake and they intentionally remove the negative reviews, then oh, boy... I'm gonna get REALLY mad! |
|
|
| I'm just curious, since I don't really know about this at all...
Isn't there any agency that monitors the sale of pets, that could be notified? Isn't there anyway to report people like this - it IS, after all, animal cruelty and also misreprentation. What about the State Attorney General - they sometimes monitor consumer frauds in certain states. Especially if they are looking for a cause to champion at the time. (Possibly a petition sent to them?) Does anyone know - I'm just curious and this infuriates me. Betsy |
| I've notified the AZ authorities with respect to the Breeder... but I don't know what you can do about a website that isn't doing the right thing. |
| I think you're going to be really mad. I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that the breeder can edit the reviews on their own pages or they can say that the review is a mistake and have puppyfind take it down because this seems to be a very common occurrence of the negative reviews "disappearing."
Actually, I just looked at the listing and she has no reviews-- so I posted one. I think it may not be a bad idea for all of us to post a review simply stating that 2 of these pups in these litters had Parvo and to encourage buyers to find a reputable breeder. It isn't negative, just honest. You don't even have to register with a real name/e-mail address. If more and more reviews keep coming, it might help bring the breeder to her senses-- or at least keep the reviews up longer so prospective buyers can see them. |
So what's the "link"  |
| yeah. link?> |
| Click here and scroll down half way and click on "write a review." |
| I don't get why the top of her Graybearoes.com web site it says Michigan and the bottom says AZ??
Have either you or Abby's parents been compensated for your expenses and the purchase of the pup? You can file fraud charges as it states there are health guarantees. Definitely helps that there is strength in numbers. I think both of you should both contact the AZ media too which may pressure ASPCA to shut her down. |
| I followed the link onto the breeder page. The puppy pics are so cute! It is really heartbreaking. |
| There are also online review places like http://www0.epinions.com/ and http://www.ripoffreport.com/ that you could also lodge complaints. Epinions is ranked pretty high in search engines & so is OES.org so if we keep posting about Puppyfind.com or PuppyFind hopefully it will deter some people from buying puppies from them.
Plus if you both of you paid for your puppy with a credit card, you can appeal the charge and get it refunded. All you need is to have a little paper trail which could include unresponded emails you guys have sent to the breeder. |
| We have both contacted
Ch. 15 news investigation division in phoenix and maricopa co. animal cruelty dept. I received my money back for dear little abby but am going after the hospital and vet bills. She never gave us a contract(the one posted on her web site) but I printed one for my and my lawyer's benefit. This is ugly and so sad and the more time that goes by the angrier I get, especially when I see her 3 little brothers posted on puppyfind.com. They are on the valentine's sheet. Thanks to you all. Abby's family |
| I'm glad you are still here posting Dolly. I can't imagine the emotions you are going through but I truly think that you & Suzettemarie are doing the right thing by trying to put a stop to this. Definitely is very frustrating that she still has litter mates posted on Puppyfind. |
| Nice if every time she deleted one of the reviews, one of us posted another one! |
Joahaeyo wrote: Nice if every time she deleted one of the reviews, one of us posted another one!
  |
| I just went to the site too. It is scary, because it looks like a reasonable place. Hmmm - another important reason to check with parent clubs. . . |
| Mine's still there. Did anyone else put something up? |
| I put one up...it says, however, that "only one review" per person is allowed...we may all need to register seperately, instead of using the link...? |
| I didn't think I was registered when I added the link. In case, I was, try this. It should just link to the page and then you can register when you get there.
Puppyfind |
| I'm hoping that I'm not jumping to assumptions by saying that even though the breeders might give the money back, the money is not the issue here.
I think persistence and numbers might be helpful - persistence in spreading the word, to as many people and in as many forums as possible; number in the number of people filing complaints and spreading the word. I even thought of creating a website just for "warnings" for anyone out there looking for pets. This idea was more of a dream than anything, as I don't know a thing about creating websites and am not sure of the legal ramifications and where the word "libel" might come up (although it's not actually libel if what you are writing or saying is true, right?). I just said to a friend that the sad thing is that usually what ends up happening is that the breeder/seller is only fined and then what do they do to pay the fine - breed more puppies and sell them. It's a vicious cycle. I might have some extra free time in the next two months (and many of you have numerous dogs to care for, I only have 2) - I am going to read up on this. I'd like to try to help, if I can. I hope that all the puppies pull through - it is so tragic that they are the innocents who end up doing the suffering. Betsy |
| THis is so sad it just makes me cry. All in the name of the might dollar. I have had my share of irresponsible breeders and the health problems they cause the pups. I wish there was a way to put these people out of business. You have to pay to register with puppyfind but it is well worth the money to get a message across. If she removes your remarks can you add another or does someone else have to??? |
Maybe I missed this, but what did the BREEDER say about selling the other puppies in that litter? What has she said in general?  |
Just made my post  and plan to do one every day  Let's not give in folks...she has to be stopped!
Dolly, great that you contacted the tv station...and you go girl! After her with a lawyer. This makes a great story for local tv...People hate any kind of animal cruelty |
| I don't want to criticize the wrong breeder on puppyfind...is it greybearoes?
Betsy |
| THANK YOU SO MUCH everyone. We ARE going to make a difference!
Yes, Betsy, it is Graybearoes. Here is the response I got from PuppyFind: "Due to the abuse of the review system (such as breeders bashing other breeders, people using the system as a message board and other such fake reviews being posted) we have no other choice but to allow sellers to delete invalid reviews. It is possible that a seller may delete a review that could be considered valid, but we allow up to 3 times for this to happen. However, reviews are stored by Puppyfind when a seller chooses to delete them even though they are unable to be seen on the site. We use these as a means of evaluating the ability of a seller to remain on the site." So, presumably, what we are doing will work. I have reposted a review for the breeder and I appreciate all the reviews that you have posted. Hopefully, PuppyFind will take notice and not allow her on there anymore. |
| I hope the site gets flooded with lots of bad reviews, hopefully Puppyfind will take notice then. |
| I went on the site and started posting a review twice already, both times I deleted the review. Here's my concern:
While this breeder must be stopped, I started wondering what will happen to the puppies that she now has for sale? What if buyers heed our warning - I"m concerned about the fate of those puppies left with her; will they end up being euthanized even if they are, by some chance, healthy, or will they be sold to just anyone (including research facilities) just to make a buck?! I'd be curious to see how many pups she has and what will happen to them. Maybe I'm letting my mind play tricks on me, but I want to be sure that the right thing happens to these poor pups, not just some thing happening to them. Someone help me so I feel better about this (of course, I'd like to drive down and take them all away from her, including the dogs she breeds!) Betsy |
| I don't understand your concern...
If she sells them, then she sees no problem, and will continue to breed these dogs and not take appropriate health measures. If she sells them, then you get no guarantee these pups are safe or in a good home. By making it hard to sell these pups for her, it becomes more of an expense "to her." Feeding them, continuing to give them their next round of shots, other medical expenses, etc, and maybe the frustration will lead to second-thinking or even correcting what everyone is trying to make known to her. If they ended up in a rescue, I'm sure we would find them and get them adopted. If (not saying she did/does) she did something horrible to the dogs she can't sell, well... then she's a horrible person. It would only be safe to assume she abuses and neglects all her dogs, so why help her sell her dogs? If there's a way we can stop her, why not?? Especially if puppyfind is where she finds most of her buyers. |
| I understand what you're saying, and I do agree.
I just wish that we could have all the puppies removed from her care - all of the dogs. I hate to think that shutting her down would cause the death of even one of the pups. And I do feel badly for the people who have some of the sick pups, and I don't think it's fair to them. Maybe I'm not explaining it well enough. What type of person she is isn't even up for debate - we know what kind of person she is, that's what scares me. Betsy |
| Looks like she has 0 reviews. It's almost like she doesn't care |
| I thought the same thing about the poor puppies she now has for sale. what will happen to them...But the ASPCA or a local rescue could take them and I'm sure good homes would be found right away. W had a news bit not long ago here where someone had alot of dogs they were not taking care of and the auithorities came in and got them out...within minutes of the airing, people were calling in to adopt the dogs...
Getting on the news is the way to go...will shut her down and will embarass her completely...Maybe even the airline the pups flew in on should be notified...if the pups had parvo while in flight, the airlines should know in case there were other dogs or animals in the same cabin...those dog owners need to know they were exposed to parvo... |
| I understand the concern for the puppies that are still there. I, too, have that concern and that's why I've notified the proper authorities (whose role it is to step in and rescue these dogs) as well as the local media.
Unfortunately, there is no easy answer. Believe me, I wouldn't wish this on anyone... having a puppy with Parvo. It is gut wrenching to watch what they have to go through. We are fortunate in that we have the means to give Elliott everything he needs to help him survive. I would guess that most people don't have an extra $3000-$5000 sitting around--and they might have to make a very difficult decision. Nevermind the emotional toll on everyone involved. No, there is no winner anyway you look at it. We, as human beings in a civilized society, must be accountable for our actions. If this woman is not held accountable, there will undoubtably be more suffering. It may be too late to help the puppies that are there (I truly hope that's not the case) but we can make a difference so that there are no future puppies that suffer. Please accept this as just my humble (passionate) opinion. |
| Suzette, have you contacted Puppyfind directly to report your complaint besides the query about the review system? I see that her "reviews" section is no longer even an option on her page any longer. |
| Yes, VerveUp... I have contacted PuppyFind directly and I have given them a very detailed description of the situation. I have offered to send documentation to corroborate my complaint.
I also noticed that all of the reviews that we posted have "disappeared" again. I am in the process of posting another one. I don't give up easily. |
| good for you! |
I just put a review on there in regards to your recent review, that has since been deleted and replaced by someone singing this breeders praises (Hmmm, How much you want to bet that it was the breeder herself?  ) |
| Here is the response from PuppyFind with respect to the breeder reviews that have been posted:
-----Original Message----- From: Puppyfind.com Support [mailto:xxx @ puppyfind.com] Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 1:59 PM To: XXXXXXXXXX Subject: RE: RE: Question/Comment... According to my records, this seller has received the maximum number of deletions and the reviews are posted to the site. It's a small victory for the puppies. Thank you all! |
| Woo hoo! Good work everyone! |
| Did everyone's review get posted?
I won't register at that site, so I can't see any reviews. |
| Yes, some of the reviews made it through... 5 negative vs. 3 positive. At least prospective buyers will get a warning. |
DID SHE DELETE THE LISTING?!?!?!!  |
| It sure looks like the listings have been removed... whether she did the right thing or the owner of Puppyfind did, I don't know... but the listings for Julie Gray have been removed.
That's a start:) I am in contact with the local authorities. I have not forgotten that there are still puppies at risk and will not rest until I know they are safe. |
| Yay!!! One less avenue for her to sell the pups. I hope the authorities have quarantined the pups now. |
| I have just read all the posting here and I am glad to see that we have made a difference. CONGRATS to all who have helped in this sad situation. Hopefully all the puppies will some how be helped and put with good loving families. To the owners of Abby and Elliott I cant imagine what you have been through... but great work at contacting the proper authorities. I hope Elliott is doing well Suzettemarie. |
| I recently was on the Graybearoes site and somehow was linked to this. After reading the many negative reviews of this breeder and realizing that I too purchased an OES from her two years ago became very curious what all this was about.... I ask you this because we are considering purchasing another OES in the next year and our Sophie that we got from her two years ago has been very healthy with the best disposition.
I'd appreciate any insight you all might have to offer. Thanks! Sue |
| I had never thought of doing this prior to purchasing a new puppy... but then again, I've only done it once...
It seems that an individual should be able to contact both Animal Control and the Humane Society in the town where a breeder is located. Speak with someone in charge to find out if they've ever had any complaints, issued any citations, filed any charges, etc. If anyone would know, it seems they would. Then balance out the info... if there's been problems with say noise, it would obviously be a more acceptable than health, cleanliness, housing, etc. issues. Just an idea. Best wishes in finding your new pup  |
| Hi Sue:
First let me say that I am so happy for you that you have Sophie and she is healthy. What a blessing! As for purchasing a puppy from Graybear OES, I can only relate to my experience, which is well documented in various threads in this forum. Elliott is now over his Parvo and is deep into the business of being a puppy. He is underweight (35 lbs at 6 months) and still struggles with diarrhea. He may have lifelong health problems... we certainly hope not, but will have to wait and see. Our puppy started showing Parvo symptoms the day after we brought him home. Given the incubation period, that means he had it when we got him from the breeder, which means the breeder's environment was (and quite possibly still is) contaminated. From all of the research that I have done, parvo is extremely hard to eradicate from the environment. Yes, you can bleach like crazy... but it also lives in the soil, the grass, etc. Depending on which expert you listen to, it can stay there anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. This breeder claims to give Parvo vaccinations early, instead of following the recommended dosing schedule. From what I've learned, vaccinations given early are not effective because what's given in the mother's milk counteracts it during the first weeks of the puppy's life. Even with the correct Parvo vaccinations, there is a window of time between the immunity given by the mother and the first Parvo vaccination where the puppies are at risk. They are so vulnerable and to raise them in an environment that has had recent Parvo is risky at best. All things that I would consider if getting a puppy that's been in that environment. We wouldn't trade Elliott for the world. But if I had to do it all over again, I would have paid attention to the "signs" : The breeder's unwillingness to let us see the environment prior to purchase; the difficulty getting information and pictures in the 8 weeks we were waiting-- yes, there were a few, but it was like pulling teeth to get anything; having to change flight/lodging arrangements at the last minute because the breeder didn't want the neighbors to see us coming during the day (we had to come under cover of darkness-- apparently the neighbors have called animal control several times); I had to ask several times to see the parents; after sending my deposit, I found out that the Dam was only a year old and hadn't had her hips checked (I was told that it was an "accident" but later found out that this had happened before with another Dam); we didn't get the health guarantee that the website lists. It was just a bad situation all the way around and I was too nice and too trusting. I certainly learned my lesson. I could go on about the horror stories that I've received from others by private email. Instead, I will simply say that I would never get another puppy from this breeder. Please feel free to email me privately if you would like further information. Best of luck looking for your new puppy! P.S. $1000 purchase price + $5000 vet bills (parvo only) = $6000 -- Something else to consider. |
| I forgot one more place you might check on the quality of a breeder...
contact the Better Business Bureau to see if they have had any complaints. You legal minds out there... is there a way to see if a breeder has been taken to court and if they won/lost? It seems that if there was a judgment against someone that it would be part of public record... yes... no? I purchased two puppies and was EXTREMELY fortunate that things went very well... it was during a time of grief and we didn't know better. We could have been taken or gotten sick puppies or dogs with horrid temperament. My love now is for rescue but if I were to invest in a dog from a breeder, I would definitely investigate them thoroughly using some of the things I've mentioned. |
Didn't find exactly what you're looking for? Search again here:
Custom Search
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|