Questions about Zappa - our Wheatens itching

Man, do I wish there was a discussion board like this one for Wheatens!

As some of you may know, we adopted Zappa, a purebred Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier from a Shelter on January 18th. I took him to the groomer on January 20th, he was a stray and really needed a bath and to be cleaned up. Since the day we got him, he’s been scratching all the time! I took him to the vet on the 19th and they saw no signs of fleas, the vet dismissed it as dry skin or perhaps an allergy.

Hendrix, we’ve had since a puppy and he had several skin problems (constant itching, hot spots, etc). All of these skin conditions ended once we moved him to Venison food. My vet said cheap or dog foods filled with unnatural items can cause dogs to have skin irritations. I have Zappa on the same food. However, the itching hasn’t stopped. It’s been so bad that Zappa will run back and forth against the couch just to scratch lots of places at once. Do you have any suggestions for us? My husband thought it could be the groomer using an Oatmeal Shampoo on him, but I always thought that was a good shampoo, plus he was itching like crazy even before the groomer.

Any input would be GREATLY appreciated!

Respond to this topic here on forum.oes.org

My close friend has a SCW.. and she had the same itching problems.. they thought it was fleas, then allergies and also groomers shampoo.

No fleas, changed the type of shampoo that the groomers use.. so they have narrowed it down to allergies. The vet suggested giving him Omega 3 Fatty Acid and since she started that, he has stopped the itching.

My Murphy had the same problems, so we changed his diet and he also gets the Omega pills.. scratching as stopped.

BTW.. I love Wheaties.. little monsters that they are....

I recall Dixie's days of scratching non-stop until she bled. I took her off ALL grains, at Brenda (Dudster's) suggestions. Even the shampoo has oatmeal, from oats, so I never used that.

If Zappa has a compromised immune system, which is possible if he was a stray, then they are more prone to be reactive to allergies. Therefore the immune systme needs to be boosted....thus some Omaga 3 fatty acids etc. can help there.

I would suggest no grains, and give that boy some big dose vitamins to get him going, and some Benedryl to ease the itching so he can heal...And sit back and wait...and wait......and wait...... :cry:

Keep us up to date.

you know.. I never thougtht about the shampoo.. oatmeal....

Funny thing happened in our house the last time I bathed Murphy. When we got home from the Self Wash place and Murphy was all spruced up and dried.. Tanner.. me son.. kept on saying he smelled "like breakfast"... I was a little baffled as to what he meant.. he said it to his father a few times.. then finally, I had to ask him what he meant by it.

To him, Murphy smelled like something you would have for breakfast... Oatmeal.. hot oatmeal...

:lol:

Sorry to jack your thead...

Now that I'm freaked out about the mites my guys had in their skin, did your vet do any skin scrapings? Could be that he picked something up at the groomers.

Have you been on the S'wheat Rescues website. I found it by going on Petfinder and searching for Wheatons and then you see S'wheat Rescues. They have a ton of info about Wheatons and maybe they might have some info that would relate to the breed specifically.

They also say on there something interesting, that they won't adopt out a dog of the same sex in a household. Example: they won't put a male in a household that already has a male dog.

Your new Wheaton is exceptionally cute. Hope you get to the bottom of his itching.

If the problem is really dry skin try some Alpha-Keri Oil or Skin So Soft by Avon. You can spritz it on once a week or so; you can also dilute to 1 tablespoon per 1 gallon of water and use it as an after bath rinse. The omegas work but they do take some time to kick in.

My wheaton does have the itch so bad that she rips her skin off her rump and ends up bleeding very badly. Vets are no help and medication is no help. Her life is miserable now because she's coned 24/7. I am getting so desperate that I may have to put her away. Who can help????

Hendrix's Mom wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hendrix's Mom wrote:

What have you tried in terms of medications and treatments so far? There are lots of things that are available and there's no reason to think of putting her down over an itching problem. Let us know what you have done so we can guide you better in how to help her.

This is not a Wheaten trait. Sounds like you have done what you can on your end via changing diet and proper grooming. By process of elimination I would guess allergies.

Yeast... has it been eliminated as a possible cause of all this itching? Is there any red-brown or pinkish staining between the toes or pads of the feet? Read this article if there is... I just came across it yesterday and it's fantastic. I wish I had found it a year ago! My own vets did not recognize a yeast issue in two of my dogs.
http://www.esracarolinas.com/7062/7117.html

This is what yeast on the feet looks like...
http://oesusa.com/Yeast/index.4.jpg
http://oesusa.com/Yeast/Darby82807-Trimmed.jpg
http://oesusa.com/Yeast/BackLeftFoot-071507.jpg
http://oesusa.com/Yeast/3.jpg

After treatment with Malaseb pledgets (kinda gross)
http://oesusa.com/MalasebPeeling.jpg

If it might be yeast, remove all treats like Milk Bones, Pupperoni, etc. from the diet. No peanut butter, starchy foods like corn, bread, sweet potatoes, etc. nor foods with sugar including natural fruits. If you give yogurt, give only plain... not vanilla. If there's a yeast problem, sugars keep the yeast going.

You might ask your vet about trying Malaseb shampoo... it does not require a prescription. Though we have had a lot of itching we have NOT had any staph or bacterial infections. It's an antimicrobial shampoo.

antimicrobial- Capable of destroying or inhibiting the growth of disease-causing microorganisms.

If your dogs are not on a probiotic, consider using one.

If I had to guess I'd say he's got an environmental allergy (but yeast can go hand-in-hand with allergies from what I've experienced over the past 2+ years).

The problem with allergies is you've got to try to figure out what's causing the reaction and either eliminate it or try to make the dog less reactive to it (meaning allergy shots). My Darby has seasonal allergies which are bad this time of the year until it freezes. We've done two years of allergy shots but haven't seen any obvious improvement but it doesn't mean they don't work. If I had it to do all over again I'd take her to a board certified dermatologist for a skin test to try to pinpoint allergens causing the problem. I would completely bypass the blood test or RAST test because I'm doubting they're reliability...
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=597

According to two RAST tests Darby has had over the past 2 years (if I can rely on them), she's allergic to specific molds, dust mites, American Elm and cats (the saliva/skin).

Because the allergy shots and previous treatment with our regular vet has been totally unsuccessful, we started taking her to an holistic vet a couple of weeks ago to address her allergies.

This is what we're doing... I can't tell you whether it would be beneficial or not to Zappa but it's something to consider if you're at your whits end.
http://oesusa.com/DarbysAllergyMeds.htm

Once yeast has been ruled out, get him on a dog-suitable antihistamine. It may take some trial and error to see which one will work best for him. Diphenhyrdamine or Benedryl is often the first one tried.

Add a fatty acid supplement. Darby is 63 pounds and is getting two 3V Caps per day (large breed size)... one AM and one PM. It will take time to see the benefit of fatty acid therapy so be patient. They are said to help antihistamines work better (or something like that

). Darby is ALSO getting Missing Link Professional Formula on top of the 3V Caps.

You can see the rest of the stuff at the link I included above. Though the itches are NOT gone completely, she is currently the best she's been in 2 years. We do keep a long sleeve shirt on her to prevent her from damaging her skin. We run dehumidifiers and air purifiers... the air purifiers are similar to the kind used in hospitals with the blue type lights... they kill molds, bacteria, etc. http://mountainaire.info The furnace guy is coming out next week to install a larger unit on the furnace where the air is also filtered for the air conditioner... it improves the air quality by removing fungus, bacteria, viruses and molds from the air. http://www.fieldcontrols.com/uvaire.php

Steroids are said to be a quick fix but I've read that over time they become less effective and higher doses are required. There are also side effects like Cushings, Diabetes, etc. with prolong use... sometimes you have no choice but to use them (I've had 3 family members that required high doses or prolonged use of steroids for lung disease and cancer so I've seen the side effects but also the life saving benefits). Darby's had two tumors- Histiocytomas- over the past 2 years... she doesn't need something else that may reduce her immunity.

If you need help, holler.

I think my dog has yeast, but I couldn't access the article in the previous post. He has recently started itching like crazy - little clumps of hair flying off everywhere! - He's been on Wellness Puppy for over 6 months and hasn't shown a problem. He's on wheat, corn, soy free everything, and gets oatmeal baths.

1. What can I do for the yeast?
2. What can I do to stop his itching? I hate seeing him so uncomfortable!!
3. I am getting ready to switch him to an Adult dog food. Any suggestions for a high quality dog food that is good for Wheatens?

Thanks!!

Brooke & Cujo

It's best to get a diagnosis from a vet and hope you can find what's triggering the itching so you can eliminate it all together.

Rule out fleas and other parasites first... skin scrapings are often required as part of the process. Ask them to test for yeast if you think it might be the cause. I've only seen yeast in ears and between the toes and pads on two of my dogs. One is seasonal and the other cleared up completely and never returned.

Just remember that it could be something different. We're going through the whole process again with another one of our dogs. I haven't dealt with skin like this before. We did skin scrapings, dermal and blood allergy testing (only good if the test includes the thing that's triggering the dogs itching), going into week 8 of a z/d ultra food trial, frequent baths, antihistamines, homemade laundry detergent, no perfumes/aftershave, etc. So far we've been able to avoid a 3rd round of antibiotics and steroids all together. His skin has improved with the changes we made but the itch remains. He has to wear shirts to protect his skin... I think this, frequent baths and a spray we use have made the most difference. We keep searching for the cause.

You probably won't be able to find the Malaseb shampoo or pledgets- http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/sep09/090915s.asp Your vet will be able to suggest another topical alternative IF it's actually yeast causing the problem. But it's important you first determine if yeast is the cause.

Eagle Pack Holistic Select is good for many dogs including my seasonal allergy girl. But not for my itchy boy... he tested borderline sensitive to a couple ingredients in their product line.

I hope your vet can quickly find a simple solution for your little one.

So glad i fond this forum! Our Wheaton has been completely miserable for about 6 months now due to this itching problem. He is about three years old, and a house dog only. He did have some ear mite problems, but we took care of those quickly. Our vets only advice was to use oatmeal shampoo, but after two to three baths in the last few weeks, the problem just seems to get worse. I believe I will try some of the recomendations from this thread and see what happens.

We are also blessed with a Wheaten : ) it took us 1 1/2years to find out that she is allergic to chicken and EGGS. Eggs is in the majority of foods, as is chicken, so you have to thoroughly read all the ingredients on the labels. Anything with poultry fat is going to cause the same reaction. In the beginning, we were told to try cutting out wheat, chicken and lamb. It wasn't until I cooked up some eggs for her as a special treat, when I realized this was the issue. She's not allergic to wheat or lamb, but your's may be different. Strange thing is she's not allergic to turkey or duck.
Also, what out for any treats or rawhides that look like they've been dipped in beef gravy (reddish brown in color), the coloring and preservatives can cause itching too. A couple weeks ago, I read that Oatmeal baths are not good for Wheatens, who knew? It dries out their skin too much, also causing itching.
Occasionally, our baby still chews at her paws, probably because she got her paws on some cheese or hot dog, even the all beef ones bother her. Again, the preservatives.
If the hair around the paws are pink or red, it's from their saliva. Check the skin in between the pad of the foot and the toes, because the skin could be infected from the moisture.
If it's just slightly pink, try soaking the affected paw in warm water with Epsom salt for about 10 min twice a day. Even once will help. If it's a dark pink or red, or funky smelling, they'll need to get an antibiotic from the vet=$$
Also, garlic is great for Wheatens. You can add some to their food. I would try a 1/4 or 1/2 of clove of fresh, crush up. As convenient as the jars of minced garlic is, I am weary that the preservatives would cause a reaction.
Well, I think that's all I know from the vet and doing some research. Any other tips are greatly appreciated!

The yeast feet are caused by them chewing. They chew because they itch and they itch because of an allergy. Over bathing, more than once every 4-6 weeks will make matters worse, as will the oatmeal baths!!! If for whatever reason you need to bathe your wheatie once every 4 weeks, or even if their coat is dry, you can put a tablespoon of Canola oil in with their food 2-3 times a week, but you have to stop using the oatmeal bath. Oatmeal baths are good for people because it draws out poison ivy, oak, or whatever the issue is. Wheatens are not oily dogs and regardless of the allergy, which by the way, dogs are not allergic to poison ivy or oak, oatmeal baths strip their skin of necessary oils.
Wheatens aren't like most dogs, so unless the vet has a great knowledge of this breed, they will treat them just as they would any other dog. Before you start tormenting your dog and your bank account, try to cut out chicken, eggs and anything will a lot of preservatives. Neumann's Own-Turkey and Brown Rice cans are good for them, be careful because the label is almost identical to the Chicken and Brown Rice. There are several others too, but you have to take the time to make sure any chicken by products, egg whites, etc. are not in their. Even the flavors that are beef, lamb, etc seem to have chicken and/or eggs in them.
I also get Sweet Potato treats. Not the hard ones that are like cookies or crackers. They are dried, so they have the consistency of a prune or raisin.
A short cut for seeing if egg is the issue is to cook up 1 and see if itching or paw chewing occurs within the next 20 minutes or so. Ours was probably within 10 minutes, right after she wiped her face on the couch.
Sorry for the lengthy message. I am not trying to be one of those righteous know-it-alls, for I knew nothing about Wheatens prior to owning one, other than they are adorable. Now I couldn't imagine life without her and all the rest of them!
The first vet place we took her too wanted to run test after test. With multiple vets, no one had any clue, and we always left there without any real answers. We were blessed to find another place, where the only vet knew all about Wheatens! I also found a book about them which helped greatly too!

Rubbing their faces, heads and bodies along the couch or bed after eating or drinking is a wheaten trait. It's their was of trying to get clean or dry. You Tube wheaten terriers and look them up on different websites. It's right up there with the Wheaten Greeting, puppy turns-even when they're not puppies, the upside down, feet in the air and against a wall sleep. If the rubbing is happening and they didn't just get their face all messy, then it is reason for concern.

It's not just Wheaties that rub their face and body on upholstery, my sheepdogs do this as well. It's why the furniture is covered with flannel sheets.

I just want to mention something the vet in our newspaper mentioned a week or so ago....garlic is toxic and while most web and holistic places say a little is ok, it's the big dosing that is bad......the new thinking is the effects are cumulative. The damage is anemia and can be life threatening. Even putting galic powder on dog treats in training or mixing into dog biscuit dough is considered by, by this vet.

Careful with the level/frequency of garlic given... check with the vet. There seems to be some controversy about it's use. I've seen it marketed as a flea preventative or immune booster but also info about it's affects on blood.

http://www.aspca.org/Pet-care/ask-the-e ... arlic.aspx
http://www.vetinfo.com/garlic-dogs-safe.html

Edit: As Susan says

And too bad we can't just cover their beards with flannel... :wink:

Make sure your vet cultures the dry skin problems. You may need antibiotics. However Benadryl is 2 mild Use Zyrtec twice a day. That should definitely help with the itching. My Wheaton has gone through pure hell plus he picked up doggy MRSA. Still trying to find the right food and he is14 years old! He's been on grain free limited-edition rabbit through his vet and now were trying natures instinct rabbit limited-edition. He loves the food but it's too rich so we have to give him pumpkin on top of the thing. This is a never ending cycle. But I wouldn't trade my baby for anything. He does seem to be getting some relief from the Zyrtec.
Good luck!

My Labradoodle itches on certain foods. After baths, determining it wasn't fleas, mites, etc., eliminating treats, I switched her food. Benadryl didn't work either, she would still be itchy.

When I say she was itchy, she was miserable. Constant itching.

Same brand of food, just switched her over to non-grain and she was fine. I feed her and my sheepie Fromm. They have several non=grain brands and I switch flavors often.

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