Help?
I'm a student in eastern michigan. I live in the city so I understand sibling rivalry. I found this site through google doing research for sibling rivalry. Originally I decided to do the 5 page paper on humans but then I thought it'd be helpful to learn of animal rivalry too. So anything you could give me would be greatly appreiciated. Kira |
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| Hi Ness,
Welcome to the forum. What kind of information are you looking for? PS your emails are bouncing back, would you fix your profile please? Thanks. |
| HEHEHEHEHE, what an interesting subject!!!
Perhaps you could come up with a "questionaire" of specific information you would like to address. |
Ron wrote: Hi Ness,
Welcome to the forum. What kind of information are you looking for? PS your emails are bouncing back, would you fix your profile please? Thanks. Please excuse the email ordeal, my account went inactive. I'm looking for anything from how they act when a new member enters the family to how the two treat each other. I'm just looking for general information. Average statistics, anything would be great. |
| Hi Ness,
Welcome to the forum. Just like people, dogs are also choosy about whom they like or don't like. Ask any dog owner whom visits off leash parks and you'll find that their furkids have preferences as to who their friends are. I did educational pet talks for a few years for the Humane Education Society and would tell people the following when introducting a new pet into the home. It's very important they meet on neutral territory first if at all possible. As imagine the scenerio from a peoples perspective...You walk into your bedroom and there's a stranger sitting on your bed, eating your favorite food and sharing affection with your loved one. Not going to be too happy are you? Your first thoughts are "what the heck is THAT stranger doing here?" In some cases it's the same for dogs but unlike humans they are more territorial. Dogs also have a natural heirachy in their lives which goes back to their wolf ancenstry. The alpha dog in the household gets first choice of food, where to sleep and attention first. If that is thrown out of whack by a newcomer then fights occur. If the newcomer acknowledges the status of the alpha then he/she needs to learn their place in the pack. This does not happen with siblings in human life as parents make sure all kids are treated equally and really can't be compared. Not to say that dog parents don't treat their furkids equally but must always acknowledge the alpha dog status . Hard to explain in a few short sentences. What can be compared is foster children however and how they go through a honeymoon period at first and then when they feel safe some behaviors arise. The same thing is seen in rescues. Your study sounds interesting but unfortunately the scenerios are not comparible because you would relate to them in people terms and dogs think and act from a pack mentality which is far different. What can be said is on superficical terms is that dog siblings fight over food, toys and attention from "mom", in many ways like human kids. Just like human kids whom think it's okay to thump one another ..heaven help an outsider that dares to touch a little brother or sister....big sibling would race to the rescue. 
Let us know your thoughts and I'm sure the members here will have lots more input. Good Luck! Marianne and the boys |
| Okay.
To my knowledge I know there is a time every few months an underling will try and step up to the current alpha? My teacher's former dog was half wolf. But does this happen often in a domesticated dog's behavior? Do your dogs sometimes fight for the attention of you, does it happen often? How sevre is it? Do they fight over dishes even though they have their own? Can anything be compared with human sibling behavior? You guys are great by the way I've learned so much reading your forum, Thank you so much for your help. |
ness wrote: Okay.
To my knowledge I know there is a time every few months an underling will try and step up to the current alpha? My teacher's former dog was half wolf. But does this happen often in a domesticated dog's behavior? Do your dogs sometimes fight for the attention of you, does it happen often? How sevre is it? Do they fight over dishes even though they have their own? Can anything be compared with human sibling behavior? You guys are great by the way I've learned so much reading your forum, Thank you so much for your help. Role in the pack is firmly established in my house, Ty (the maltese) is the boss. Tasker (who is 11 years older and 90 lbs heavier) NEVER questions his authority. Ty rules in ALL matters. They fight over bones, they fight over toys, they fight over who gets petted. But they do not fight over food, it is not uncommon for them both the be eating peacefully out of the same dish. They can be very jealous of attention paid to the other. If one is getting a rub and the other wants in on the action he will nose his way in. Tasker is much more tolerant of sharing affection, he never becomes hostile or nasty. Ty on the other hand WILL NOT share and often needs to be corrected for behaving badly. Ty is the teaser, he likes to play "chase me" and will get Tasker going by bringing a toy to him and teasing him till Tasker gives chase. Ty also thinks (just like kids) that what ever Tasker has is better than what he has. A perfect example is their Sunday morning bone. Each Sunday they get their own compressed chew toy. Tasker will go off to the corner and happily chew oblivious to what Ty has. Ty on the other hand can only stand it just so long before he has to go to Tasker and stel his bone so that he has both bones. |
ness wrote: Okay. To my knowledge I know there is a time every few months an underling will try and step up to the current alpha? My teacher's former dog was half wolf. But does this happen often in a domesticated dog's behavior? Not every few months. I think certain circumstances can lead to disagreements but not that often. I think it happens more as dogs come into maturity. On a side note, very few wolf hybrids are actually as much wolf as people say or think they are. The only reason I mention that is because they're usually more dog than anything else so their behavior is much more doglike. ness wrote: Do your dogs sometimes fight for the attention of you, does it happen often? How sevre is it? Do they fight over dishes even though they have their own? Lol. Are you kidding? I could write an essay just on how that behavior goes in my house! My female is the top dog, then the older male, then youngest male. All will allow different behaviors out of the others. The youngest male will not let me pet the female, but at the same time, he's threatened by her. He'll push her put of the way, but when it comes to just walking by her in a tight area, he's scared to go by her. The older male is the sheriff of the house and won't let the female get pushed around-- or me. If ever thinks the younger male is acting inappropriately, he shoves him down or humps him. The males get very possessive of us humans when they're on the couch too. If one is by me, and the other one wants up, the one on the couch guards me like he's protecting a fort, not letting the other one up. They do all kinds of things like that but those are the ones I notice the most. I only have one who is weird about his food but the other 2 know it and taunt him about it. My oldest male is possessive about his dishes and has to be separate from the other two, who can eat side by side. If one of the other two walks by his dishes, he stops whatever he's doing to run over and block his dishes. 95% of the time, the dogs are just walking by too. The other 5%, they steal his food and run to taunt him. They don't fight about food, but food can be a trigger. ness wrote: Can anything be compared with human sibling behavior?
The boys also "show off" for company and like to play fight for people when they come over-- I'd say that's a lot like human kids! |
| How great that you found our forum this way and chose to still chat with us !
I have an almost 10 yr old female (Annie) and a 1 yr old male (Foz). From the second Foz came into the house, Annie was boss as we knew she would be. She finds it necessary to growl/snap/evil eye him in a variety of situations and will take toys/bones away from him as well. Everything is on her terms which I think is just the female nature of any species . Us humans sometimes intervene and decide "noone will get it".
Foz will give things up to Annie in a heartbeat; however, he has learned the art of barking back but within reaching distance. This will sometimes go on until the two of them have entire conversation of moans and groans. It's quite entertaining. At times, Annie will reprimand Foz until he lays down. He will then roll over on his back or side and touch her lightly with his paws. We like to think he is saying, "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you" just like siblings do 
Annie does allow Fozzie some alpha behavior. For example, he is usually first up/down stairs and out the door. She also allows him to initiate play when they are outside. This consists of flicking Annie's ear up or jumping in front of her so she can't get across the yard or into the house. She doesn't lay into him at these times as I would have expected. We haven't had many disagreements over food. They eat on opposite sides of the kitchen wih their own food bowls. Annie goes first although she doesn't seem to care which order she is in. They stick to their own bowls and then sniff the other's out when they are finished. They have separate water bowls, but they empty the bowl closest to Annie's food first before moving to the other one. I've never seen a disagreement over the water. Foz will always wait patiently until Annie has drank her share. Good luck on your paper! Let us know how it goes...or if we can read it |
| Mine fight for attention. It's just growls and snaps, and it follows, for the most part, the established pecking order:
Archie, 7 year old OES, is alpha. This is a new position for him; previously, he was omega to our first OES, Merlin who was 7 years his senior. Merlin died a little more than a year ago. We got puppies early last summer, and Archie got a chance to be in charge. Sophie: 11 month old OES female. She'd be alpha over the entire world, given half a chance. However, Archie, who was utterly and completely entranced with her when she was a small puppy, won't put up with any nonsense from her. He puts her in her place any time he thinks she gets out of line. He also thinks all toys belong to him. Sophie wants all of the toys to belong to her, but she knows Archie will kick her b*tt so she gives in at the first hint he wants what she has, unless she thinks she can sneak off with it. Sherman, also 11 months, and Sophie's littermate, is contentedly the omega dog in virtually every situation. He will challenge Sophie a little bit if she's being really bossy, but mostly, he just opts out, avoiding confrontations. He'd probably like to have all the toys but no way is that happening, so he just takes what is left over. Or my shoes, if he can get one. Or virtually anything. Ongoing issue with him is that he likes to chew everything. Archie protects me from too much attention from dogs outside of the family. He's never done this with Sherman and Sophie--he always accepted them as part of our pack, although he wants his share of attention. With outside dogs, he inserts himself between me and whatever dog it is, trying to edge the other dog, who is just dying to be petted and scratched, away from me. Sometimes there is some slight growling, and the other dog backs away. I have witnessed a variety of dogs do blatantly manipulative things to distract Archie so they could be petted by me. Sophie wants to be the center of attention at all times. She craves being petted and scratched and brushed even more than most OES. The boys like pets and scratches; they aren't so wild about being brushed and will use any pretext to slink off when it's their turn. Sophie will literally fling herself on top of me, or the other dog in order to be petted. Or sit there and give her complaining bark: "But it's my turn now! You've been brushed for 5 minutes and I need at least an hour!" Sophie and Sherman invented a variety of games. When smaller, they used to tear around the house, playing tag. Apparently, they would have secretly chosen one of the parents in the house to be the mountain of which they wanted to be queen/king. At some point, one would leap onto a lap, plant a paw on our arm and jump down, obviously claiming a prize. Archie loves all toys, but especially squeaky ones. Sophie wants all of the toys, too, especially if Archie has it. I've watched her get Sherman to squeak a toy so that ARchie will abandon the one he's chewing to take the squeaky from Sherman. Sophie grabs the abandoned toy, and Archie comes back with his prize to find his other toy gone. He looks for it, and if he notices that Sophie has it, he will demand it back by lowering his head under hers and actually taking it from her mouth. She doesn't dare refuse, although he's never hurt either pup. Sophie and to a lesser extent, Sherman, will try to hide the fact that they have a toy from Archie. Especially balls. Archie just wants to make a pile of tennis balls; Sophie and Sherman want to chase tennis balls. I throw a tennis ball. If Sophie or Sherman get it, they will bring it back to me, in a round about route, to disguise the fact that they have the ball. Archie is still looking for the ball. Sophie will come around to my off side and quietly drop the ball into my hand, so that ARchie can't see what she's done and try to take it, and so that I can throw it again. When we were all out shoveling snow, our neighbor was out with their lovely chocolate lab, Emma, who adores Archie who likes her but also ignores her a lot. Sophie wanted Emma to just pay attention to her, and loudly complained if the other dogs got near to Emma, who doesn't like noise and bother. When Sophie and ARchie ran off to investigate something, I looked over and Sherman, who always hung back, was laying down on the ground being licked all over by Emma. Sophie would have died of jealousy if she had seen it. It is virtually impossible to pet just one dog if the others are around and awake. |
| Hi Again!
I'll set up the scenerio in my household. For many years I had Shaggy and Blue. Then Merlin came into the household as an 8wk old pup when Blue was aprox 14 and Shaggy 15. Shaggy passed away months later and Panda age 3 came into the household when Merlin was six months old. Shaggy, as the pre-existing dog in the household was alpha dog to Blue. Blue, was a very passive dog and although he was much stronger physically than Shaggy he didn't object or put up any fuss when each dog was given a bone. Shaggy would promptly walk over and take his and then sit with both of them. They both were fed in opposite corners of the kitchen and Blue wolfed his food down as if Shaggy decided his food was better she simply had to walk over and he would leave his but not touch hers. Over time he learned to adapt and if he saw she was coming for his dish...he simply picked up his entire dish and walked away with it, and learned to bury his bones. When Shaggy passed, Blue, naturally as eldest dog would have stepped into the alpha role over 4 month old Merlin. Blue was never comfortable in the role and two months later when he tried to tell Merlin what to do....Merlin pinned him down, placed his face close to his with teeth showing, allowed Blue up and then promptly walked away. Merlin a dominant boy and extremely young took over the dominant/alpha role in the house. In dog circles allowing a six month old to be alpha is extremely rare but you must remember Blue was now 15 and would not challenge Merlin , nor attempt to put him in his place again. A changing of the guard happened again in the household. 2 weeks later, a rescue, Panda is brought unexpectedly in the household. As the new kid on the block he acknowledged the alpha status of Merlin. The two were better matched in size and energy. The first two days they played like best buddies. Blue, now seeing his place on the heirachy slipping, decided for the first time in all his 15 years... he needed to learn how to play and become Merlin's best buddy. So he did. Now Blue is 18 and Merlin and he rough house daily. Blue often engages in what I refer to as trash talking to Panda...bark, bark , bark...but would never do so on his own. It's as if he's giving Panda heck and saying..yeah well I have a big brother to back me up. Panda will trash talk back but will become immediately silent when Merlin appears. Merlin hearing his best friend is in a possible altercation will immediately race to his best friends side and Panda now seeing he would need to take both on...promptly puts down his head and walks away. Merlin normally would never bother Panda otherwise. Panda acknowledges Merlin is boss, but still tries to bump Blue from second spot. All three dogs are fed in seperate rooms and as toys are triggers to fights they are no longer kept around. Each dog is taken out seperately for play time and favorites toys are brought along. Otherwise I would never have peace in the house. After close to three years, Blue still does not like Panda but tolerates him, Merlin is pretty indifferent to him and always sides with Blue. (It actually reminds me of when my brother, sister and I were kids.) My brother the oldest, liked me better and would often come running if my sister threatened to beat me up.) She would on occasion if he wasn't around. This only occurred one time...Panda had an opportunity to fight Blue without Merlins interference. Merlin accidently locked himself in the bathroom and my son placed a finished icecream cake box on the floor for Blue to lick up. Panda challenged him for the food and won the fight. No way would Merlin have allowed that to happen and neither would have touched it if he had been around. I returned home shortly afterwards to discover the scenerio. Blue nursing a bleeding nose, cake box on the floor and Merlin locked in the bathroom and I knew immediately what happened. I have no doubt that if it were only Blue and Panda in the house, Panda would be alpha...as just like what happens in the wild a new/young up and comer may challenge the old one and chances are they would win. Merlin, however is in the picture and although the youngest dog is the boss of all of them. If Panda should ever take a toy of Blue's that I've forgotten to put away...he'll cry...poor boy - breaks your heart at the noises he makes...Merlin will promptly take it back from Panda...but won't give it to Blue. 
They fight over chairs too...like musical chairs at my house especially at night when I'm seated on the couch...each racing around the back to see who can get the choice spot first. Each preventing the other from taking that spot. Ironically once one of them takes it..then it's settled the others find other places. Panda is the one that usually wins and always warms my heart that his love for me is stronger than his fear of his brothers. He will dodge , try several times and finally leap on the couch. Once there they leave him alone. I sometimes sit in different places just to have them all stop racing around, buying each of them a special chair of their own didn't help. They all want moms attention. Marianne and the boys |
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