I am not trying to be rude but...
I am new to this site and I have a question for you. I am looking into getting an OES puppy and have gone to visit 2 breeders in my area. They are obviously "respected" breeders because they are listed on the AKC site as referals. Both homes that I visited handle and show their dogs. Both expressed they are only in it to better the breed, have the hips and eyes certified, only sell to approved homes, only have 1 litter per year, all the dogs that I saw were champions, etc... all the things I have read about on this site as what to look for in a breeder. Sounds great right... Ok well, this is my problem. The dogs and homes were filthy. I am talking filthy. The one I went to yesterday showed us 6 of her adult show dogs. There were a litter of 4 puppies in a whelping box in the middle of the living room. All the adult dogs except 1 were in crates. There may have been more adults because she was going into a back room and brought out a couple for us to see. Every adult and puppy had poop smeared or hanging off its hiney. There was feces smeared all over the tile floor. All over the whelping box etc... Maybe she let the puppies out to run free and had not cleaned it up yet, I don't know. To me it would seem that a puppy would be better off going into a home where it would be loved and played with daily instead of being kept in cages most of the day and just shown on the weekends. I don't understand why they feel so protective of their dogs when to me they are not taking the best possible care of the ones they own. I am not a neat feak by any means but I was a bit shocked when I went into these homes. Am I just not seeing the whole picture here or what?? To me it seems they were a bit too worried about qualifications and titles instead of the dog being a part of the family. Please let me know if this is normal or have I just had bad luck here. I could not use enough anti bacterial soap when I got back into my car!! Thanks, Madison |
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| HAHAHAHA, I don't know what to tell you but I sure sympathize with you!!!
I found a new kennel not far from my house, HIGHLY recommended. The person raises dogs (out of respect for her I'll leave out the breed), is a WORLD RENOWNED JUDGE who travels all over the country judging, has been at some of the biggest shows around and whose puppies are spoken for YEARS ahead of time. She is wonderful delightful knowledgeable and one of the kindest people I have ever met. But her house is like a barn!!!! She has dogs, puppies, cats, kittens and even a goat wandering at will from room to room. There is puppy poo and goat doo in the kitchen. I have left Tasker there a couple of times and on return home found him happy but FILTHY DIRTY and smelling to HIGH HEAVEN. All I can say is different strokes for different folks!! |
I think every breeder is different. I'm sorry the house visits weren't pleasant experiences for you. Thankfully if you get one of the puppies you will know that your dog will have the best possible chance at a healthy quality of life from the excellent breeding combined with the cleanliness of your house. I would probably be turned off by a visit with yucky-bummed dogs, too.  |
| Doesn't sound like a very pleasant or healthy situation. I do hope it doesn't turn you off from finding a reputable breeder though, please keep looking until you find one you are completely comfortable with. |
| Hi, I'm a little confused when you say you found them through the AKC site. Did you mean you found the breeders directly through the AKC or did you go to the parent club "Old English Sheepdog Club of America" referral section of their web site? Just getting listed on the AKC site doesn't necessarily make them "reputable". Being part of the breed club is better as there are a lot of checks & balances.
Just a couple of thoughts. The thing that bothers me most about what you said, is that there were feces on the back sides of all of the animals which is very unhealthy for the dogs. Not defending this breeder as the thought of them living in a crate 24/7 is a little concerning. Are you sure that they weren't just put in their crates in order to give you some peace while looking at the puppies? I know a lot of dogs get used to their crates, and probably eat & sleep in the crates if there are multiple dogs. The fact that there were feces on the floor is pretty gross but hopefully it was just from the puppies. What you are describing sounds pretty unsanitary and I think you have a right to be very concerned with the situation. Obviously, having multiple dogs in any household it gets a little difficult to keep your home constantly sparkling, so you should expect some dirt/smell, but not excessive. Please don't give up hope in finding a breeder, they are not all like that. If you did get this breeder from the OES of A referral I don't think it would hurt to contact Tarja on the breeder referral page and let her know about your experience. That way she can keep a record of it in case this is a recurring issue. |
I think that in cases like the breeders you visited it comes down to them having more dogs than they can properly care for, even if they have the best intentions for the breed. I myself show and breed dogs, however, I would never want any of my dogs to live in crates all of the time. They are members of my family. I have 4 dogs right now and that is a perfect number for me, especially with having to keep up show coats!  Try not to let this discourage you in your search for a pup. There are good ones out there! |
| Hi Madison, I would be put off as well. Unfortunately I think it is exactly what Blueshire mentioned in her post. Too many dogs, but that is no excuse to have poop hanging off them.
If it was me viewing a house and all those dogs and pups kept that way and in not so sanitry conditions, I personally would be looking somewhere else also. Don't be put off by your experiences so far, keep an open mind and keep searching for a reputable breeder as that is still the best way of hopefully ensuring that you have a healthy pup to start with. I am glad you have done researching on where to get a pup, the research and knowledge gained there will pay off in the end for you. Don't lower your standards and listen to your inner self when viewing litters and the enviroment they are raised in.  Was these breeders on an actual OES club referal list? Or just from a Kennel Council referal list?
I looked at 5 different breeders when I got my first sheepie, finally found one I was happy to get a pup from. That was back in 1976 
I show dogs and they are not kept like that, even my oldies are still in full coat, spotless, house potatos and romp and play like normal dogs, they are my kids first and show dogs secondly. Not all that show and breed have dogs at home kept like that. Don't let your experience so far put you off a reputable breeder, there is wonderful ones out there.
Best wishes with the search and keep us posted to how it is going. |
| The dirt in the house is pretty scary. Was it just gross that maybe there was a busy weekend and crazy messy dogs or was it that inch thick OMG it's everywhere filth?
One way to check a breeder's intentions is to go to http://www.offa.org/ and see how many of their dogs have been health screened (hips, elbows, eyes certified) and what ratings they have. You can also check show records. Depending on what area of the country you live in will determine which show superintendent to look at. Definitely contact Tarja Peters and ask her if she has a signed code of ethics from the people you visited. Also give her a detailed description of what you saw. Time, date, conditions, etc. If this is a problem and they are an OESCA member, they WILL be able to do something about what is going on. Definitely go to the OESCA site and have a look around. http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamerica.org/ and here is a link for the breeder directory from the OESCA. http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamer ... ferral.htm The Old English Sheepdog Club of America is the parent club for the breed here in the states. They do a lot of work to make sure that people are doing the very best for the breed. You can also check the mentor page, http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamer ... ORLIST.HTM to see if there is anyone in your area that would let you visit their places to get a better idea of what is expected from a good breeder home. As for show dogs in cages all the time. There are a few of us here that show and I can tell you that our dogs are not kept in cages for any length of time. It's not good for the dog mentally or physically. If "non-regular" people come to my house, I will put the dogs in the bedroom or in the other part of the house. Even with only 3 at my house, that greeting can be quite overwhelming!! The people who are always at my house have the process down so they are on their own. We are all here to help out in any way we can so by all means, keep the questions coming. If you let us know the area that you are in, you may even be able to visit one of the forum members to see their crazy sheepdog household. |
VerveUp wrote: Hi, I'm a little confused when you say you found them through the AKC site. Did you mean you found the breeders directly through the AKC or did you go to the parent club "Old English Sheepdog Club of America" referral section of their web site? Just getting listed on the AKC site doesn't necessarily make them "reputable". Being part of the breed club is better as there are a lot of checks & balances.
Just to elaborate on Deb's point, if you look at the AKC Breeder Classifieds http://www.akc.org/classified/search/index.cfm there are profiles listed for some breeders. Click on this and it will indicate if that breeder is a member of a breed club, whether health clearances have been done, guarantees, etc.. Most, except those belonging to the breed club (OESCA), offer few if any guarantees. The breeders that don't even have a profile promise nothing other than AKC papers.  |
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