Cataract Surgery
I'd love any input. I'm trying to decide if it's worth it - in other words I'm weighing the risks vs. the benefits, but would love to hear from anyone who has firsthand experience. Bailey's surgery is scheduled for February 15 so this is really a decision I need to make immediately. What holds me back is that the complications could possibly cause her pain and I don't want that. But, on the other hand the benefits would be that she would be able to see much better. She is 11 and her vision is poor and she's starting to have trouble with her hind legs/hips. I just don't want her to go blind and lose the ability to walk also, so I thought that maybe I could help her out with the vision problems. Any thoughts/experiences????? Betsy P.S. Bailey is a Blue Panda from Washington - I think the breeder is now in California. I'd love to find other Blue Panda's. Emmett is from a pedigree called Nite Wind (I think, I'd have to look at his papers), his is 9 1/2, and I'm looking for his siblings also. If anyone is out there......let me know. |
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| I'm afraid I don't have any experience with cateract surgery for dogs, but I hope it works out for Baily, as I'm sure being able to see better would be great for her! My new baby Eggbert is from Blue Panda (he's the little guy on the right in my avatar photo)...They are actually in Oregon now...I'd love to see some photos of your girl!!! There are a few more photos of Bert in my photo gallery as well... |
| I am going to look at your photo's now. I am new to this board - how do I add photos?
How old is Eggbert? very cute name! Bailey is now 11 1/2 and totally healthy, except for her vision problem and the hip, which is just starting in (mostly when she's walked too long or stood too long - after the groomers). She is really a person. She doesn't have the personality of a dog, she prefers the company of people and is extremely intelligent. I think you will be very happy with your Blue Panda. Let me go look at the photo's now (doing this could end up with me getting a third OES!) Many thanks! Betsy |
| Due to baileys age, personally I think the risk would be great to opt for the surgery. I would be more worried about going under an anaesthesia at 11 years old.
Dogs cope extremely well if they do loose there sight, all the other senses kick in and it does not seem to worry them getting around at all. My 14 year old towards the end had rickety old hips, her sight was gone due to "Old Age hardening of the retina" and she still got around OK when she could. Could sniff out the smallest crumb on the floor and hear everything and let me know who is around, did not affect her quality of life at all. Just have a think about the age factor with Bailey and wether you think the risk of going under an anaesthesia is worth it or not. There is a blood test that can be done beforehand to make sure she can take an Anaesthesia, but that is no guarantee either.. Cataract surgery is extremely expensive and there is only a 70 to 80 per cent chance of them seeing again after the surgery, not all are successful with the cataract removal. |
| Lisa's given you some good things to consider. I think the real question is... how is Bailey coping so far?
IF you should decide to cancel Bailey's surgery, you can help her to cope with her diminishing eye sight. I've heard that some people didn't even realize the dog had vision loss because they had coped so well. Because Bailey's vision loss has probably been gradual, it might not be as tough on her emotionally as it would on a dog that suddenly lost it's sight overnight. Blind dogs do amazingly well once they've mapped out their surroundings. We adopted a pup that was mostly blind and I did so believing I would simply tether her to me so I could lead her around (boy, was I uninformed!  ). We've had her for 2 years now and she runs circles around us and the other girls. By the way, blind dogs not only walk, they run! To me that was the most amazing thing. Most people don't know she's blind. We think she may see limited shadows with her "good" eye... her other eye didn't form properly at birth.
http://www.oesusa.com/SnowBaby-12-04-06.jpg http://www.oesusa.com/Kaytee/Kaytee1.jpg http://www.oesusa.com/Kaytee/Kaytee12.jpg Just some ideas- Always keep the water dish and food dish in the same place for her. If you should move the furniture, take her around a few times so she knows the new setup. Get down at her level and see if there is anything that could possibly poke her in the eye and remove these hazards. This is also very important to do outdoors... a couple of time each year I trim the bushes of any branches sticking out at around 3 feet and down. And DON'T something like the wheelbarrow or lawn mower out in the play area even for a few minutes if Bailey is out to play. She will run into it. (We had this happen with the wheelbarrow and Kaytee hit the end of the handle  my fault!)
Make sure that doors to areas with stairs are closed so she doesn't accidentally fall down them. On the other hand, make sure other doors are completely open so she doesn't run into the edge. Start now using words to help her like step-down and step-up for going up/down stairs. We use the word "CAREFUL!" if we have a drawer open or if Kaytee's gotten off course in her excitement and is approaching something... like a tree  She usually puts the brakes on in time.  If you take her for walks, watch out for her by telling her to step up/down at a curb. We found that walks that have a purpose are most enjoyable to a blind dog... like where they can meet people or other pets. Or stopping in for a treat somewhere. The visual benefits achieved through a walk may be going but the nose still works fine along with the taste buds.
In reality, it's often toughest on the humans. Bailey will probably bump into things... this is natural but will occur less once the area is mapped out in her head. We were down at Michigan State University's animal hospital and they stressed to us that dogs adapt. They wanted to make sure we knew this and we found this to be true. Here are a few resources for blind and vision challenged dogs... http://blinddogs.com/sitemap.htm http://www.blinddogs.net http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/blinddogs The book "Living With Blind Dogs" By Caroline D. Levin RN http://www.petcarebooks.com/books/living_blind.htm Kaytee and I play a game with a cloth ball... I put a bell inside a small metal tin and it's inside the ball. I throw it for her short distances so she can follow the sound. I throw it for her longer distances and we play something like hot/cold. If she's heading in the right direction I say "YES! YES!"... if she isn't, I say "uh-uh". She enjoys it and it's good interaction. No matter what your decision, I wish you and Bailey the best. Jaci |
| Hi, Betsy,
Lisa and Jaci have both given you some quality information. I too have had an older dog with cataracts. At 13, she was blind and nearly deaf and had NO problems getting around except for some arthritis. She adapted very well - and taught me a lot! I would mostly be concerned about the anesthesia also. Give Bailey somes special hugs from your OES friends and please keep us posted. Rose Marie |
| Thank you everyone for your responses (and keep them coming). I apoligize in advance if this just cuts off - I'm having computer problems.
I appreciate everything that everyone has told me. I've already thought the sames things myself, but it's nice to hear it coming from others. I think that the main reason I decided to do the surgery (and I'm not completely sure that I will go through with it), is that while Bailey's arthritis in her hind legs is not that bad yet, I'm sure it will get worse and I didn't want her to be failing in two different ways. I am concerned about the anesthesia as well. The one thing that she does have going for her is that she's a very healthy 11 year old. I hope you all understand that this is an extremely well cared for member of the family. The car I bought - for the dogs, the houses - for the dogs, I make my own food for them (no store bought, I make it from scratch each week). They go to the groomers more than I get to have my hair done. You get the picture. I do see her struggling though. I have to carry her down the stairs at times; sometimes she will come down if I can tap the stair in a way that she senses where my hand is. She does run into things and she walks hugging the walls, and sleeps that way too. Sometimes it takes her a little longer to find the your hand with the treat in it. Most of the time she's really pretty good though. Thankfully, it's coming on slowly. The other issue I have though is that Emmett, her 9 year old brother, sometimes snaps at her. She'll turn a corner and he jumps and yips and, quite often, it ends up in a dog fight with fur flying. I feel she has an unfair advantage. Although he is the one with the unfair advantage verbally as she lets him hear her lecture him for 10 minutes after the incident. At the doggie park we can see her sniffing around at peoples pants legs trying to find us. She has always been a people dog so the fact that she doesn't run with the other dogs doesn't really upset me. I'm just trying to make my decision based on what will be best for her, including what will help her best in her daily life as it is now. I'm thinking of calling the eye specialist back to ask how many times they've encountered complications. Right now, I'm pretty fearful of having it done on her. Thank you for the responses and please keep them coming - I welcome them greatly. HOpefully soon I will figure out how to get some picture on the site - mine all seem to be too large. Bailey and Emmett's Mom. |
| Has she got the cataracts in both eyes?
I think you will find that a specialist will only do one eye at the time, not both together. Firstly to see if one eye that has been done, was successful or not. Then you run the risk again of more anaesthesia again for the other eye to be done later. Check with the vet to see if that is the case with cataracts in both eyes. 
I have not had cataracts in my OES, but I do know some that have had this precedure done on their dogs and the results have been very varying. First and most importantly, does she really need to go through all of this to maybe or maybe not be able to have some sort of vision? Just the age factor scares me and it is a lot for them to go through at 11 1/2 and hopefully come out of the aneaesthesia firstly, before the re-couperation after the procedure has been done. 
I have stairs in my house too, I had a slip lead that I use to pop on my girl and guide her up and down the stairs. She only wanted to do stairs to follow me. As jaci said you can start teaching her single words to help there, re-read that post again. They click on fast if you are consistent with special commands to help them understand things like stairs etc. In relation to what is happening with the two dogs, well that can be addressed too. Jaci has her girl Kaytee playing around 5 others and with good positive training, all have adapted well to Kaytees situation. Keep us posted to what you finally decide with your girl and I hope all works out well, which ever way you decide to go.
As for the arthritis, do you use a supplement to support the joints. If not then a good one is Glucosamine and Chondroiton supplement to support the arthritis, given every day for the rest of their lives. Helps slow down the deteriation of the cartiledge & joint and seems to keep them mobile for longer. Sashas Blend is another good joint food too. |
| Thanks. I'm on-line now reading more and more - anything I can find - on cataracts in dogs.
She does have the cataracts in both eyes - and the vet would do both but i'm only thinking of having one eye done, even if was to go well. I would not have her go through that twice. She just had anesthesia this past summer too. Both dogs had some growths that were a little disconcerting to both the vet and us so we had to have them removed and biopsied (sp?). She handled is well. They used anesthesia for the testing last week too. It does always make me nervous though - and that is a major fear of mine relating to this possible surgery. I put the gate up at the top of the stairs when she comes up with me at night, since the dark is when it is the worst for her. I've also added nightlights in the outlets near the floor. For her little spurts of arthritis, she gets an aspirin only when she seems to be in pain - after standing at the groomer, etc. (the groomer is so sweet too, she lets Bailey go upstairs and lay down on a large doggie bed and rest while she is being groomed, since she is at the groomers all day and the groomer doesn't want her getting sore in the crate!). She gets Glucosamine/condroiten each morning in her oatmeal. They each get vitamin supplement and a healthy powder made of bonemeal, lecithan, nutritional yeast, vitamin c and sea kelp powder - since I make their food at home. As time goes on, I adjust their food and their supplements to their age and health. I'm going out tomorrow to buy one of the books that was recommended, I had just seen it at the bookstore and should have bought it then. Off to do more research... Thanks 
(I really need to learn how to use this board!) Betsy |
| Hello. My mom just had cataract surgery done for her 9 yyear old mutt, Mikey.
He did great with no problems. The surgery was done the week before Christmas. I went home for Christmas and he still had his plastic cone on so he could not scratch his eyes. He had to wear that for about ten days. After given the all clear to remove it he just needed to be watched so he would not mess with his eyes. He is doing good though. Mom waited a while to make the decision, but now that it is done, she is glad she did it. Sorry no technical stuff here, but at least I know it has been done with success. If you have any specific questions, I can ask her. Have a great day, Eric |
| I don't think I would opt for surgery at that age for something unless it was causing a lot of discomfort or was potentially fatal.
Dogs do adapt amazingly well when they lose their sight. I know a few people who have used scent training to help them navigate and memorize dangerous areas. As long as you can keep the dog safe, with gates, separation from any dog who wants to snap at her when you're not supervising etc... |
| When a dog has severely limited vision, other senses really do seem to take over. Smell and hearing become more acute. So you can use sounds to help Bailey find you at the park. Simply put some bells on the bottom of your jacket or use a clicker to help her find you (unless others too are using one). I made an anklet that had bells on it so Kaytee could follow me. You can also use your voice to help guide her to you. When I call Kaytee out in the yard, I call her name and keep talking to her so she can find me... or I pat my leg or clap my hands gently. Taking time out of the day for a little one-on-one training will help her adapt more quickly and boost her confidence. (Boosting confidence through training is a great thing you can do for a blind dog.)
Kaytee is the same way with treats... we have to put it in right front of her nose/mouth when we hand it to her. Though we do on occasion toss her a treat and she locates in on the floor by scent. You can also make a game of this by laying out treats in a wavy line and having Bailey follow the treats with her nose. I tried to teach the right/left commands but I got all goofed up on which ways were right/left for the dog  You might be better at this.
Kaytee does sometimes step on another dog even though she tries to avoid them when she walks... she's also t-boned them in the yard while running and while the others will let her know that she's done wrong, none have attacked because of it. We strictly supervised them when Kaytee first arrived and taught them to be extra careful with her. I think they knew she was different so I'm not sure how to handle this other than warning her with a "careful!" command and telling your other dog to "leave it". Kaytee is very independent so to teach her the "careful" command I put her on a leash and walked around the yard. I walked her right up to one of those 2"x4" open-type metal fences with the warnings "CAREFUL!" as we got close... the first few times she didn't listen and walked right into it. We repeated it several times and she learned that careful meant there was something in front of her.
One thing I would say is to have a place where Bailey can sleep that she knows she'll be safe. Kaytee will lie off to the side near a wall close to a corner or behind the chair in the living room. It just gives them a place they feel secure when they can't see another dog approaching. The other side of this is to make sure Emmett has a place to sleep where HE'S out of the way too and encourage him to always sleep there. We allow our dogs on the furniture so this also helps to keep the path ways clear. IF you keep collars on your dogs, you might also consider putting two different sounding bells on them. (Just be sure they can't get caught on anything or cause a choking hazard.) At times it will help Bailey to hear where Emmett is and it will alert Emmett when Bailey is coming near. I finally bought the "Living With Blind Dogs" book I mentioned about a month ago. It was interesting to see how many of the things that Kaytee does is normal for a blind dog... like running at full speed in an area they have mapped out. We always called it her "flight pattern".
I can completely understand your desire to have Bailey see well again. The final decision on surgery is best made between you and your vet but I hope some things here will help you along the way. Jaci |
| I thought I should post more information about helping a blind dog adjust- just in case something we've tried might help someone else...
Here is the full information about the book I mentioned... Living With Blind Dogs: A Resource Book and Training Guide for the Owners of Blind and Low Vision Dogs — Second Edition Author: Caroline D. Levin RN Here are a couple of places online that carry this book. You might also try a local library... http://www.petcarebooks.com/books/living_blind.htm http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm? ... 4&Method=3 And a few online resources on assisting blind dogs- http://www.blinddogs.net http://www.blinddogs.com/sitemap.htm http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/blinddogs Eye Protection: http://www.doggles.com Angel Vest: http://angelvest.homestead.com Stiff Leash: http://www.collargirl.com/blind.html I can't remember where I heard about this (I'd give credit if I did) but we made our own stiff lead using a standard leash and narrow PVC pipe... slip the leash through the tube... it makes guiding a blind dog a little easier (unless they like to lead like Kaytee does). Different textures underfoot can also help blind dogs know where they are... like mats or rugs. As can scents... you can use oils on the door jambs. We tried this but found it wasn't necessary. Stairs are a danger to blind dogs but they should learn to navigate them. We started teaching Kaytee to step-down using beef... http://www.oesusa.com/Kaytee/index4.htm http://www.oesusa.com/Kaytee/index5.htm http://www.oesusa.com/Kaytee/index6.htm This is a BIG way to build trust but remember NOT to let them down even once during training. They need to know that you'll protect them from a fall. After all, when stepping-down they are stepping out into "blind" space. Once they figure it out it's easier. Kaytee will often follow Jim down to the basement to do laundry and she practically flies down the 3 steps into the shop. If your dog has some vision, you can use high contrasting colors to help him/her navigate... when we didn't know how much vision Kaytee had, we put a big X on the back door and also a white piece of paper against a dark background on a corner she kept running into. Sorry if this is more info than needed... I just thought it should be said. Jaci |
| Great information! I hope this can be a sticky note. |
| Hi,
I took my Panda to the optomologist on Dec 27 and decided not to have the surgery. Panda was a rescue and thus the extensive aftercare would not have been in his best interest. Like yourself, I was torn between wanting him to see better but from most of the research I have done if one isn't meticulous with the aftercare it can develope into eye ulcers or glaucoma (which can affect the other eye) I really feel for your situation as Panda also had moderate dysplasia in both hips and I would do anything in my power to make him 100% and I do understand how you feel. My previous OES Shaggy lived to a ripe ole age, but towards the end she too had diminished eyesight and arthritic hips but did quite well despite her ailments. We both learned to compensate. Here are my experiences and the opinions of members here as to the result of the visit to the optomologist on Dec 27th. http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=11600 Best Wishes to you Marianne |
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