Aging parents, anyone else dealing with it?
About a year ago he allowed a local woman who was having hard times to move into his guest house. At the time my siblings and I were concerned about the situation but releived to know that he had someone on the property who could watch out for him. She is living rent free. My son and my sister were there over the holidays and very concerned about the situation. Apparently this women is doing nothing to help my Dad, in fact he is cooking for her and doing her laundry. She works nights and is gone most of the time. A neighbor pulled my sister aside and told her that he had been in the guest house and it has been trashed (the women has been keeping 3 dogs in the room). He also told my sister that this woman has been asking my Dad for large sums of money. This women has quite a reputation on the island for bringing law suits and just generally being an "odd duck". My sister tried to talk to my Dad about maybe getting someone in the guest house who would actually HELP him and he got very angry and cut her off. I have tried to broach the subject but he has made it clear that it is his business. My sister is all for getting the attornies involved (my Dad is actually pretty wealthy and has control of my Mother's estate which is also quite large) and making a big deal out of it. While I hate to see my Father give away what he has worked for all his life to a stranger I believe he is of sound mind and that what he choses to do with his money is HIS business not mine and am inclined to sit back and do nothing. I told both my brother and sister that my parents stood back and watched us make some pretty dumb choices that now it was our turn. My "solution" is to make sure that we stay in contact with my Dad more, there are three of us and if we each called him twice a week he would be hearing from one of us almost every day. I also plan to make extra trips to visit him. I guess I just want him to know that he hasn't been abandoned by his children (we have ALL offerred him a place to live). I hesitated over the last week whether to post his as it's a kinda "personal" issue but I know many of you are in my age brackett and wondered what YOU would do. |
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| I hope you find something that works out for each of your family members. Checking up on him sounds great!!!
I think my grandmother-in-law is 87(?). BECAUSE OF HER, every single family member (and it's a big family) has agreed to go into an assisted living home. She has torn the family apart, made everyone HATE her even though she's a sweet old lady, and just a burden. That's terrible to say, but it's become the truth. I see Mr. J's' family break down the time she spends at everyone's home, and basically everyone cringes when it's their turn. She has to have the house at over 80 degrees. this is while she has thermal pants and shirt under her shirt and SWEATER. She spends the entire day in her room with little communication with others. This is a very bright woman who had tons of friends and things to do before she decided to leave her home and live with her children. Due to her age and maybe her dementia... she says a lot of bad things about he grandchildren, and then forgets about it. Makes the people in the home think bad things about a lady they once loved. They WANT to put her in a home. It's Mr J's father who can't imagine doing it. Everyone else in the family sees how much better she would do in a home. She'd have people her age to talk to, keep her mind active, and be taken care of... Oh goodness.. she is a very sore topic. We had to "sort of" trick her into signing over her money to her son because if anyone wrote her, she would write them 1,000 dollar checks no matter what the charity. People started to take advantage of her, so everyone was forced to get a PO BOX. A shame too since her most favorite thing to do now... is get/check the mail. |
| Wow, that's a tough problem.
My dad is 81 1/2 (halves count before 13 and above 80, right?) and is in pretty darn good health after a couple of major surgeries, including 1 to repair a mitral valve. He is still extremely sharp, but constantly worries about his own mental status. He is a FreeMason and in 9 months during the year spends 2 or 3 nights a week visiting various lodges. The best thing is there is a major lodge within a 5 minute walk to his condo, and although he goes to the mall 3 to 5 times a week to walk for a half hour, he drives to the masonic hall. 
His major problem at the moment is trying to decide what he wants to do with the rest of his life; he keeps putting in applications at all of these senior developments and involving me in extremely detailed financial discussion about how to apply, can he afford it and how, then he withdraws the application. This has been going on for a few years now. Problem is-- he's bored; "in a rut" as he says. One thing he has mentioned he likes about one or two of the senior places is all the activities, so Joan and I have tried to set him up with a gazillion different opportunities, working for the city (they reduce a senior's taxes by up to $500 a year-- I'm sure it will be as a receptionist or a Xeroxer or something) going to the Y (right down the street from him) Joining in wiith the seniors on trips (such as to the huge FoxWoods casino (he's never been)) . All turned down. I *know* in my heart should he actually ever move to one of these places, he will find that he is still the same guy. He's really flailing about, and won't take the advice and help we're offering, and unfortunately it has led us to both be burned out about it-- we don't want to hear about this place or that place anymore, and we don't offer to set up any more activities. |
| Geez Ginny, I worry about this kind of situation with my dad who is about 1100 miles away from me & he's only 63. I hope you guys can get in there and try to appeal to your dad that this person is not good for him. Stinks being in this situation because I know you want your dad to be happy too! |
| My mother turns 90 next week so yes I'm familiar with this. Fortunately my mother is still just in a senior apartment, not assisted care or higher care.
I don't know how to get "that lady" out of the guest house, but you must do it. Having her there is giving your father a sense of responsibility, but you are right, she will bleed him dry. That's the nature of those people. Unfortunately your father sees himself as a savior to her since the rest of his family no longer "needs" him. What a pity someone in the family isn't in a situation where they need the guesthouse....... Instead of this leech, you need to hire a professional care taker who comes in daily to oversee medicines and perhaps drives him to appointments, etc. If you father is slipping on the bills, the assistant can help or the payments can be turned over to the bank...trust department. This is what my aunt had done when her husband passed away. My aunt was blind by that point. As your father deteriorates, a live-in professional.....bonded/insured.....associated with a care firm can move in. This is indeed hard especially when the parent wants to remain at home but there is no family support close at hand. |
| I wonder if your father would be willing to set up some sort of conservatorship, giving someone else (one of his children, perhaps) plus a trusted attorney/financial advisor joint responsibility to help maintain his assets so that he will be able to remain financially independent. And separately, and perhaps first and foremost, to preserve your mother's assetts. In fact, that would be how I'd try to sell it: wanting to make sure that your mother's assets are guarded for the future use of grandchildren (if there are any) or her children, or him (you might not want to mention that), if that is what she would have wanted. Stress the sentimental value of family property, etc. As long as it's being done for your mother's estate, it makes sense to make sure his assetts are guarded well, especially against any unscrupulous people (don't mention the boarder). If you know of a family that went through unexpected turmoil over an estate when things weren't handled well and well before the loved one passed away, so much the better. You wouldn't want that to happen.
Make certain that your father knows you are not trying to obtain control over his finances or his life. Make sure your father knows that you are not trying to get your hands on money or to set up your own family from his estate. I'm sure his boarder does give him a sense of purpose that is probably helpful to his physical and mental state, if not his finances. Perhaps you or your siblings or children could really need Dad's help and advice from time to time. Pehaps you all would really like to visit, bringing the whole crew, but worry that it would be too many people in Dad's house. The guest house, maybe? Maybe there is a grand child or niece or nephew in the area who could use an inexpensive place to live, in exchange for doing light chores. It would be really great if Dad could help them out--but of course, you worry that the grandchild might get a little lazy, so if Dad could help out by really having the grandchild do yard work, household chores, minor repairs, etc, it would be so, so helpful. I would suggest having Dad visit you all as much as you can get him to do, but having the boarder there is worrisome. I would definitely look into having the boarder investigated in an official manner, but quietly. If things go really badly, you may need as much documentation as possible. |
| Ron, my father took a job driving cars for dealerships after he retired. It didn't pay a lot, but it gave him some extra cash, something to do with his time that he liked doing, wasn't too physically strenuous, and probably most important of all, it gave him a new set of people to have coffee with and to shoot the breeze with. The dealership loved employing older people because they are so reliable --and work cheap.
If your dad is still a good driver, this might be a possibility. Or perhaps he might like performing driving tasks for older folks who can't drive any more. In my area, seniors are active volunteering for Meals on Wheels, and serve as ushers at performances at the local universities. |
| A professional caretaker is a great idea, I've hired one for him almost every year since my Mom died. Unfortunately about 30 seconds after I leave, he fires them
The best year was the summer I was down for a visit, he had just had major surgery so I made arrangements for a housekeeper, a visiting nurse, a visiting physical therapist and meals on wheels. Within 24 hours of my departure he had cancelled it all!!!! Unlike my sister who is basically more worried about her "inheritence" than my Dad's well being, I worry about the fine line between respecting his choices and not wanting him to be taken advantage of. If I felt he was well cared for, and doing what he wanted to do I wouldn't care if he gave away every penny he had. And no, my Dad is not a good driver. In fact he should not be driving at all. For many years he drive a great big SUburban because he said "people would get out of his way". Luckily he lives on an Island off the coast of SC, the is a very small year round population. They know him and watch out for him. Unfortunately last summer he put the suburban through the wall of the post office (hit the gas instead of the brake). At the time I had hopes that his liscense might be taken away bout nooooooooooo, they didn't even report it to the police (small town politics). He turned around and bought himself a Thunderbird, two seater CONVERTIBLE
But unfortunately I don't think he is eating properly, every time I go his house is a mess and I don't think this person is doing a THING for him. My sister did alert his personal attorney who said he would stop by for a "visit". The sad thing is that this woman is a NURSE, when she first moved in I thought that it was a good idea (despite the fact that she is very odd) but I quickly discovered that she has no intention of taking care of my Dad. A couple months ago my Dad needed to start checking his blood sugar several times a day. He was having trouble with the machine and I was having trouble explaining over the phone how to use it. I suggested he ask "_____" to help and he said "OH NO, I couldn't do that". When she moved all the dogs in he mentioned to her that it wasn't a good idea and she basically threatened to leave if she had to get rid of the dogs. I might mention she owns a house directly across the street that is unlivable becasue she has allowed it to fall into such disrepair. At her house is a pack of 10 or more dogs that receive questionable care. He is so afraid of being left alone that he won't cross her. |
| Well, this is worse still........the community is aiding this woman and not helping your father! Next time he crashes into something, he might hurt kill someone and here comes the courts. Happened at least once a year where my mother lived.
Doesn't sound like he has any friends. Is there someone with any sense there he will listen to? His doctor.......no, they don't get involved anymore........sheriff? Lawyer should get his butt over there , but sounds like he's a chicken -s. too. Does the county have an advocate for the aging who could look into this? Is this a change in his personality? Short of a responsible family member moving in and taking charge (he'll probably try to fire the family member) I don't see an easy solution. I'm sorry you have to go thru this. |
| Actually ALL his neighbors are concerned. Unfortunately non of them are year round residents. The Island is primarily a resort community and the majority of the homes are seasonal. Over the last year all three of the neighbors have approached either my sister or I about this women. They have also tried to talk to him.
My Dad is a very stubborn person (must be where I get it from) and nothing makes him want to do something more than TELLING him he can't. I do have a cousin, who has a sesonal home there as well, who visits my Dad fairly often. We have alerted him to the situation. |
| My "solution" is to make sure that we stay in contact with my Dad more, there are three of us and if we each called him twice a week he would be hearing from one of us almost every day. I also plan to make extra trips to visit him. I guess I just want him to know that he hasn't been abandoned by his children (we have ALL offerred him a place to live).
I've had a similar situation. My solution did include more aggressive contact. The key that made it work was a conversation with the unwanted guest that made them aware of the plan and the ultimate goal of protecting our family member. I also solicited a local friend that would stop by on an irregular schedule, just to say hi. It gave me a "set of eyes" to assess the current environment. Good Luck. PS I let lots of people know what this guest was doing. Bad things generally happen in the dark. Shed all the light possible on this situation. |
| How very sad and so hard for you and your siblings . Perhaps your Dad just needs to feel needed and doing for this person gives him that feeling, If you can arrange something so as to protect him and his possesions perhaps that will give you some much needed relief from worry . Once this person realizes the monetary angle is a no go perhaps she will leave on her own
My sister, brother and I are so fortunate in that my mom will be 96 in June and altho her legs are no good her mind is excellent, she still does the crossword every morning and still plays crib, sure she is a bit slower but hey I'm slow and I'm not that old  .Mom lived in her own apartment untill last Nov. when she moved in with my sister .She still misses her own place but will quickly tell you that she knows she is much better off where she is. |
jean wrote: How very sad and so hard for you and your siblings . Perhaps your Dad just needs to feel needed and doing for this person gives him that feeling, If you can arrange something so as to protect him and his possesions perhaps that will give you some much needed relief from worry . Once this person realizes the monetary angle is a no go perhaps she will leave on her own
My sister, brother and I are so fortunate in that my mom will be 96 in June and altho her legs are no good her mind is excellent, she still does the crossword every morning and still plays crib, sure she is a bit slower but hey I'm slow and I'm not that old .Mom lived in her own apartment untill last Nov. when she moved in with my sister .She still misses her own place but will quickly tell you that she knows she is much better off where she is.96!!!!!!!!!!! WOW, how lucky for you!! I do think my Dad needs to "take care" of someone. My Mom was bedridden for almost 10 years and he cared for her 25/7. Now that she is gone he is at a total loss as to what to do with himself. |
| Gee ginny it really is a difficult one, and they usually do get more stubborn as they age, they hate loosing any sort of independence and relying on others, it is character demising for them.
Firstly you really do have to get that person out, I don't know how and I hope you achieve that. As for your dad, what about an elderly citizens group or church group something like that, that pick them up and take them out for lunch or shopping or just a social get together and activities. Able elderly citizens can even volunteer their services to community groups, all these are great and might help his desire that he has that he is still needed & able to help someone, especially after caring for your mom all those years. It also give them a regular social contact with others too, so helps any sort of loneliness as well. Just a thought there. |
Tasker's Mom wrote: While I hate to see my Father give away what he has worked for all his life to a stranger I believe he is of sound mind and that what he choses to do with his money is HIS business not mine and am inclined to sit back and do nothing. I told both my brother and sister that my parents stood back and watched us make some pretty dumb choices that now it was our turn. Dear Ginny, I am so sorry your Dad and your family are going through this. Have you considered talking with the Elder Affairs Office in your area? They could help you find out what similar services are in N.C. I believe that Emotional abuse and Financial exploitation of an Elder are considered abuse in many states. Even if your Dad is capable of making his own decisions. Some individuals prey on the elderly for their own gain. I know when we were on the Crisis team, Elder services were invaluable for situations. We opened the door to Crisis one day to find an elder, her court appointed lawyer and a officer of the law on our doorstep. There was no prior call to our organization or Elder services. The fact she was evicted is a long process and no one had a long term plan. We placed her in the hospital for a short time, and Elder services was great about the followup. Now to your Dad's situation, The NURSE unless she skipped class that day should be will aware of Elder Rights. Also of the legal and elder affairs duty to protect our older citizens. She needs to leave, and having your Dad give her free rent, cooking and doing laundry is abusive and inappropriate. You are wise to have your family monitor and gather more info while you investigate your Dad's rights and the available services to ensure his safety from this predator. Here is the Ma Elder info-for an example http://www.ago.state.ma.us/sp.cfm?pageid=1784 |
zahra wrote: She needs to leave, and having your Dad give her Don't tell any teenagers this! SHHHHH it's a secret.
free rent, cooking and doing laundry is abusive and inappropriate. Let me give the other side of the argument. Maybe he wants to. Maybe he's incapable of making that decision, but maybe he just likes having her around and wants to do things for her just as he had done for his wife for so long. Or maybe I'm just naive and this stuff happens to the elderly all the time, and it's always "abusive." |
| That is the "discussion" my sister and I are having Ron. If he truly wants and needs to do it I believe that we need to let him continue.............
What infuriates me is that he is doing things like PAYING someone else to drive him into Charleston for Dr's apts and such when this women is there, has a car and could do it for him. My hope is that now that his attorney is aware of the situation he will keep an eye on my Dad's financial situation. I don't know if he could legally and ethically inform us if he thought anything was going on but at least he is aware. I'll be down in March and plan on taking this "lady" (I use that term loosely) aside and have a "chat" with her  |
| Maybe you could get your dad to add you on his accounts as a co-account holder (it's probably better for you if something should happen to him anyway, since the money in any such account just passes to you immediately without going through probate).
This way you can watch the accounts. I would guess that it would probably start small and the amounts would get a little larger, and a little larger, but I could be wrong and it might happen in one big hunk. I dunno, I'm just guessing. |
Ron wrote: Or maybe I'm just naive and this stuff happens to the elderly all the time, and it's always "abusive."
It often is. I had a case of very lovely couple who loved their church and were very involved. A church member called one day to demand they give to the church building fund. She demanded $3000 and asked them to select a time so she could come down and drive them to the bank. They did not know her, but called their friends who were getting similar calls for this donation. The family refused and said they would report her to the police if she continued this high pressure demand. She took the hint and never called again. I trust that Ginny and her sister will investigate the situation and do what is best for their Dad. If everything is on the level it will be reflected. Ron, you forget that Ginny is 1000 miles away. Having managed a close family member who lived miles away I tend to take the hard line having been "faked" out by individuals who were a "friend" to my family member. Apology to Ginny, my advice is well meaning. Just don't want you to get scammed like I did. |
| No offense at ALL, beign scammed is our biggest fear.
My Grandmother, who died at 96, was found to have sent THOUSANDS and I do mean THOUSANDS of dollars to a tele evangelist after her death. I remember how upset my Dad was when it was discovered. That is why I am suprised that he is resisting our intervention now. |
| I can certainly understand why you'd be concerned Ginny. I am following this thread with interest and sincerely hoping that you can find a way to get this woman out of there and somehow make it your father's decision that it happens. Ya know?
My own parents are still relatively young (61 & 66), but already I see signs of reasons that I have to "look out" for them. Recently, we were all at the dinner table when my father began talking about some e-mail he'd received regarding whatever was the popular urban legend that day. I don't remember if it was the "snakes in the ball pit" or the "hypodermic needle" one, but you know the kind of e-mails I mean. Almost in unison, my brother, sister, their spouses and I all say "It's not true, Dad!!" We go on to explain to him how to check Snopes, etc. And then he said this, "I understand now how easy it is for seniors to be taken in by these things. I believed it." This from the man who told me countless times while growing up "You can't believe everything you read!!" 
My point with that little story is that they don't realize that their judgement is slipping. 
It's tough, I know, and I don't look forward to it at all.  |
| Ginny, I would have this lady investigated. Does she have a criminal history? Why has she been labeled odd? You mentioned that she is a nurse, please check with the SC Board of Nursing and see if she has had any complaints, suspensions, etc against her license. They will tell you, given the circumstances your dad giving her free home and board could be construed as an employer, if she agreed to help him in exchange. Elder abuse actually occurs frequently and is under reported for many reasons, dependence, fear, embarrassement... Unfortunately nurses, aides, and other medical personnel lose their licenses frequently for abuse, thief and other crimes. If the neighbor's are approaching family member's, this would really concern me, as most people do not want to get involved.
Also has any of his children taken this lady aside for a nice or (not so nice, if you know what I mean) long talk? Maybe take a pack of change of address items along as a little gift when you visit. My dad turns 82 on the 21st. He was recently diagnosed with lung cancer. He still lives independently in an apt. only about 3 miles from me. He is also stong willed and that is the best thing he could have given me, I'm glad to carry that gene. But when they get this age it becomes a curse. |
Quote: Also has any of his children taken this lady aside for a nice or (not so nice, if you know what I mean) long talk? Maybe take a pack of change of address items along as a little gift when you visit.
That is the approach we took. We made our guest completely aware that the family would be spending a great deal of time looking after our loved one. I always made a point of a personal visit to the guest when I arrived as did my siblings. After many calls and visits, our guest got the drift and moved on. |
| Ginney, get your brother and sister and march right over to this guest house and let this women know that you know what's going on. She has to stop this NOW and move out or you WILL contact the police and Elder Abuse. She has 48hrs to comply. While you are waiting for her to move,contact a private investagater and find out her history. She may have been doing this to many elders and getting away with it because people haven't had the guts to stop her. If she does not comply, GO THE THE POLICE AND ELDER ABUSE! This has to stop now and only you can do it. PS Don't tell your dad until she is gone....he may thank you once he has time to think about it. Concerned about you and your father..Simon's Mom aka Pam |
| Unfortunately, I am 1000 miles away as is my brother and my sister is almost as far. So "having a talk" is out of the question. I don't even know this woman's last name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This past summer when I was down she steered clear of the house, making a point of avoiding me. One day I actually went and knocked on her door to have a "chat", I KNOW she was in there, but she did not answer the door. It's hard to do anything without getting my Dad angry. He says she is his "friend" and has made it quite clear that it is non of OUR business. My Father is a very intelligent man but also very stubborn and private. If I push too hard I will alienate him and then I won't even be able to keep an eye on the situation. |
| Ginny, could your family hire an investigator? Dad doesn't need to know. You can also call the Board of Nursing without him knowing. I'd rather tick dad off, than have him harmed physically or emotionally. |
| Sounds like a very worrisome situation. There's a lot of good advice that you've been given. The boarder definitely sounds like BAD news. I'm sure you'll make the best decision for all concerned. It helps to talk it out.
We are having some of the aging relative issues too. |
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