Bare neck sheepdog?
 . I know when I asked before what to use as a training collar for him I was recommended a Snake Chain or a Jeweler's Chain. I was looking around for one and the ones I found are listed as for "show use only". Since this is still for training and he is really strong would they hold up to a rambunctious puppy. I need something different! Help someone pleaseeeeeee!!!! |
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| With a prong collar there are some varieties which do not have a choking action which is the part that is damaging fur. I.e. they do up with a buckle instead of a noose-style chain through loop.
Or, with a regular prong collar I just found you can put the "leash on dead ring" which stops the chain pulling hair through the loop. Scroll down on this website and look for the picture titled "leash on dead ring". http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm Hope that helps! They're honestly not as scary as they look. I put one on my arm and tugged hard and it just pinched a little. |
| A nylon choke works pretty well for short periods of time. I have them for Clyde and Bear and they work well for their long hair.
I'm surprised that, for short periods of time, that you're having trouble with a standard choke-- or are you not using a regular one? It seems like a snake or jewelers chain would grab hair more since the links are closer together. I know the fursaver chokes have very big links and their claim to fame is that they don't rip our fur, however, I think they suck as a choke chain for training. |
| The snake or jewelers chain will help with not pulling out coat. It is true - they are not as strong as a regular collar and will break with lots of vigorous pulling sooner than a regular training collar. We have used them on previous dogs and only one broke. They are more expensive than a reg training collar too.
I agree with trying the products listed above - both the pinch on the dead ring and nylon training collars will pull out less hair. Also consider trying a martingale collar - it will pull less hair than the training collar. I also hate the "hair saver" training collars. The long flat links don't slide smoothly and are very hard to use properly - you need to shake out the collar everytime or it stays tight on the dog's neck. We started our 1st sheepie on a jewelers chain, quickly transitioned to a smooth buckle collar. If I knew we were going to be in an "exciting" place, I used the chain for the 1st few minutes, then switched back to his regular collar. This was just when he was young - after he was an adult he always used the buckle collar. Chewie started with a flat nylon martingale collar, then we switched at about 6 months to buckle collar. He behaved well enough, and his coat was starting to get caught in the rings. Good luck! and keep up the training classes. Getting out and socializing with the other dogs, learning and exercising is more important than the collar you use.  |
for Dudley we used a choke that had large flat rings which did not break the hair  |
| The training classes using the most current postive training method do not allow prong or choke collars. Or even "leash-popping" corrections with a flat collar.
I use a flat buckle when in classes, and no collar when training at home. Using corrections on a puppy who is just learning is not really enjoyable and does not set the tone for a fun, positive expereince in learning. If the dog is distracted and needs to pay attention I would use a normal collar and get better treats  |
| My obedience instructor recommended a properly fitted prong collar, and I would say her methods are "kind and gentle" and definately based on positive reinforcement. . She was very adament that the collar had to be properly fitted so as not to cause discomfort and checked every dogs collar. I have used it with great success with Tasker.
A prong collar that is either too loose or too tight is not a good thing but a properly fitted prong collar, one which fits around the neck without slack but that the progs are just resting against the neck is not uncomfortable (I've put it around my own neck). |
| My trainer ordered us this turtle neck, it goes over the head, and the collar goes over that. No damage to coat it worked great. We will use it for Elliott when he starts training |
| derby is going through pup classes and my trainer is not using the choke collar just a flat clip on with mo choke involved? this is a first for me anyone else ? the last time i when though this 11yrs ago daytona used a rolled nylon choke |
| I have taken several dogs to training cources over the years, and all used choke collars, except for the most recent class I went to, about 7 years ago. I had read about and researched dog training, because I did to want to go through the rough treatment that my dogs always had to endure. That when I started learning about "positive" training.
I finally had a dog that I could take to a postive training class and learn hands-on what I had been reading about. It was a blast, and so much fun for me and my dog. Since then I took dog training cources and ran my own classes. It was and is still great. Prongs and chokes are not used in "positive" classes. The trainer may call themselves positive, but they are not if those collars are used. They are punish-ment based, or correction-based, designed to "correct" the dog for making mistakes. The collar type is important in that venue, as it is used for corrections. Positive classes are reward-based, and the very limited corrections are verbal, and only introduced AFTER the dog has been trained. The training is hands-off, and lures are used. No popping the leash, or pulling or even placing hands on the dog at all. Makes for a dog who wants to learn, not a dog who is afraid to try anything in case it is wrong  The collar is not used for the training, per se, so a regualar collar is used....At home, no collar is needed or even desired.
I feel so bad about a bull terrier I took to one class. We were shown how to leash-pop and correct by yanking the dog around by the choke collar. It got so that my dog's neck was pink and the fur rubbed off by the treatment. When I showed the trainer he told me to put a sock over the doog;s head, and that I was doing good.
Never again. |
| Nylon choke is usually sufficient.
How old is Edgar? In my opinion a prong should not be used on a puppy, and should not be left on any age of dog for any length of time, and never unsupervised.. If necessary, I would suggest for training only. |
| Prong collars are banned in Australia for use on any dog.
Snake/jewellers chains are good, they don't pull coat out. Personally I would use a halti/gentle leader on the dog till older then advance to a soft martingale collar or something like that when the pulling is under control. |
| I use a prong collar on Fred, my OES, and Byron, my Great Pyr. The prong collar does damage the fur on Fred's neck. I like the idea of the turtle neck under the collar. I am going to be getting Fred a Martingale collar and replacing the prong collar with it. |
| Well thanks for all the replys again. We are just using a normal choke chain. We do have the prong collar but I think we have only used it a few times. When he gets out in the big outdoors he doesnt care about you or what you are doing and just pulls hard. So it felt weird using the prong collar.
Edgar is six months old. I guess the next thing to do is just try some more of the recommendations. Go through them all till we find something that is not damaging his hair and seems to get some response from him. I never heard of a turtle neck that goes on first and then the training collar on next. Where would you even find something like that? Sigh....when is this hardheadedness going to go away? He's not dumb at all. But bring him on a walk or go to dog class with him and all he wants to do is his own thing. "WHAT I have owners??? Never heard or seen of them" 
He goes on to Advanced Beginners 1 this January. I thought he should have failed puppy kindergarten and young beginners.  But the teacher said he was ok and just being a sheepdog. |
| You can make your own turtleneck out of a tube of cloth, like a sweatpant leg or something. It's just to keep the neck covered so it's nothing fancy.
You're only keeping it on for training, right? |
| Yes we only have Edgar's choke chain on for training or when we go for a walk. Otherwise he doesn't wear anything in the house. |
His only 6 months still a baby, be patient and consistant and all will click eventually. You still have the teenage years to go through yet  |
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