Fighting update
First and foremost, I think the best thing that we've learned is how to read our dogs' body language and diffuse things before they start by distracting. It sounds easy, and it is, but the hard part is catching it before it gets too far and they reach the point where they've "frozen." At that point, any touch will set them off. There's no staring allowed either that isn't part of an already existing play session. If I see them looking at each other too long, I call one or the other over to me or take them both in the kitchen, make them sit and lie down and give them a little treat. The food always seems to take their minds off things. We've also removed or limited all the triggers in the house. We've gone from free feeding to, really, semi-free feeding. Now instead of having food down all the time, it's only down while we're up in the morning for about a half an hour to an hour and the same with the evening. Because they aren't used to getting food in this limited time period, we started adding a small amount of soft food to each meal and that really stimulated them to eat. They still get treats but there's no "saving" allowed. Either they both eat them at the same time, or they lose it. This is mainly for long lasting treats, like a bone or a cow hooves. You walk away, the treat goes away. I'm leaving no windows open for thievery! No tugs toys allowed between the dogs. They can play with James or me, but not with each other. Tugging between them is an automatic prescription for a fight. All they have now are small toys and balls and they're much better for it. We're doing moderate exercise. Short 20 minute walks almost every night with all three dogs (Lucy's just along for the ride, there's no problems with her!). They do doggy day care once a week but I also find that being overtired makes them more cranky with each other. Although normally a tired dog is a good dog, overtired dogs are another story with us. Bear is the one who's more cranky but Clyde is also faster to get annoyed, too. Removing other triggers have helped anything from escalating while they're tired. I've found that Bear has a much harder time backing down and relaxing than Clyde. Clyde walks away like nothing happened but Bear will keep going if he's upset. For that, we separate them, have Bear lie down on his side and block his view of Clyde. When he's on his side, I'll pet him and praise him for laying but if he tries to get up, we start over. Most of the time just telling him to lie down works but usually putting a little pressure with my hand on him while I'm petting will keep him in place. He never fights lying down but he's often ready to get up before I know is a good time. Anyway, I just thought I'd share what's been working for us in the case that it may help someone else. I'm not a trainer and don't claim to be but we seem to be having success doing these things. Somehow, I always feel like I'm making myself out to be some expert when I make a post like this but I don't mean to come off that way. I just know that neither dogs or humans are getting hurt anymore, which is a big bonus! Jill |
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| Well it sounds like you must be doing something right. I'm glad that it has calmed down in your house. |
I'm glad to hear things are going better, it must be so stressful to worry constantly that they might hurt each other, or someone else inadvertently, again. Good job  |
| Good! I'm glad things for the moment are calming down. How's James' puncture wound? |
| I don't take it that you are trying to sound like an expert!
You are having success with solving your problem and I for one am glad to hear about it. I have been having the very same thing, and any tips you can share I appreciate. We haven't had any fights, only a few minor tiffs lately. I was wondering, do you find that these bouts come in waves? We can have a few weeks of calm and then all of a sudden it seems like the dogs will fight every time you turn around. With time and our learning to deal with it a little better they have been fewer and farther between, but it still seems to come in waves. Makes me wonder if the dogs are on some kind of cycle - maybe lunar? 
Thanks for the update - every bit helps! Shellie |
barney1 wrote: Good! I'm glad things for the moment are calming down. How's James' puncture wound? James is in good shape. His wound healed a heck of a lot better than Clyde's! Shellie wrote: I was wondering, do you find that these bouts come in
waves? Maybe. It definitely makes sense. It's too soon to tell with us yet since the first "wave" was the first we ever had. I had chalked it up to Bear growing up but I'd like to hope it's something that will pass. But, the part about waves that sucks is that another one will come.  |
| You are doing exactly what I do and the same methods work for me. I have 4 large neutered males and life is good here. Not to say we do not have an occasional brotherly tussle but they all know that I am pack leader and what I say goes. And as being pack leader it is my job to keep everyone safe and happy, plus be fair. I walk all four together everyday for at least an hour to get fresh air and for them to bond. I do not allow free feeding, and no toys are left down unless I am there to closely supervise. I know my dogs well enough to read their body language and if I even suspect that trouble may be brewing it is diffuse immediately. They also have to work for everything because "nothing in life is free" around here. Plus noone wants to be on Dad's bad side, that is not a good thing. |
| Good for you - sounds like you are being a wonderful leader - I hope this is a VERY long wave!!! |
| I'm glad things are more under control. I know it's hard. We still monitor "arguments" with Foz and Annie every day. I'm finding that we let more and more go now since Foz can "talk" for himself now. Thankfully we don't have any down and out brawls, just Annie growling and snapping at Foz. Occasionally she will continue to go after him and he screaches. It's still scary, but Annie backs off immediately when her name is called, she drops her head and lays down on the floor in a huff.
It goes in waves at our house too; however, when an "argument" continues at every interaction I've realized Annie doesn't feel well. Both times this happened, it triggered me to watch her more carefully. One time she had an earache and the other time a uinary infection. |
| Yuppers can sure relate to your post Jill and Stacy. You guys are doing a good job!!!
I think the key is knowing our boys/girls so well through body language we know when a possible situation arises and can diffuse it. It's just like kids in many ways that while experts may offer opinions as to what may work..no one knows the "kids" better than those that live with them everyday. Good work guys! Marianne |
 Sounds GREAT!!
Just as a side note, I had to stop free feeding a couple years ago after almost 10 years of having food down all the time. Tasker started gaining weight and it was clear that he was to free with FREE. He adapted well. I'm now wondering if I should feed him twice a day rather than once a day........... |
| Jill, I'm really glad to hear that you've figured out some things that work for you to keep the boys being friends. Thanks for sharing them with us. I'm always glad to read & learn about what's working for others.
Having foster dogs here very frequently, I am never sure what challenge I'll be faced with next in dog behavior. So, I try to read all I can and store the knowledge in case I ever need it. 
You do have to be diligent, I am sure. Do you feel like you can ever just relax? |
Beaureguard's Mom wrote: You do have to be diligent, I am sure. Do you feel like you can ever just relax?
Lol. Not as much as I did before but it's already gotten better. Luckily, the boys are pretty low key so most changes in their movements are pretty obvious. In that I mean, they both lay around a lot and when they get up and move, they make a lot of noise so they're at least easier to monitor because there's no sneaking around. If they're making noise in general while interacting with each other, growling, barking, etc., then I know they're playing-- it's the silence that I have to be on the alert for. I am regularly amazed that their "playing" never results in fights. They grab each other by the face and flip each other on the ground. But, nope, usually it starts with a dirty look. *sigh* Goofballs. |
| Thanks for the update, Jill. I haven't been on here in a few days, and I was actually checking to see how things were going with you guys. My mom had surgery on Monday, so I brought Sadie home with me last night to stay until Christmas. She and Callie never used to fight, but the last couple of times they have been together, it has been rough. I think we determined that the difference is the addition of Lambda, the pug puppy. Callie feels the need to protect her, even when it is totally not necessary.
So anyway, I'm glad to hear some ideas of things that are working for you. I'm sure we'll be practicing some of those techniques in the next few weeks. thanks! |
All of your advise is very good Jill. I was having some problems with Violet going after China and Violet being very possessive of her food dish. I made the mistake of feeing Violet over near the doggy door and China in the livingroom. So Violet would give China "the look" everytime she approached the doggy door. I stopped Free Feeding Violet. I give her an half hour to eat, what she does't eat gets put away till the next meal. That has helped alot. When I hand out milk bones, Violet usually will lay on the floor and push hers out just enough so that China will see it. So the "tease" begins. Now I give her only a few minutes to eat her milk bone and if she sets it out to "tease" I pick it up and put it back. Once again that is working. Now Violet has tried to out smart me by taking the milk bone outside and leaving it just outside the backdoor, so she can then lay in wait for China to come through the doggy door and see a milk bone and she can pounce on her. So i put a stop to that by timing her treat eat time and if she doesn't eat it in that few minutes I pick it up and put it away. Violet still does pull her trick of laying in front of the doggy doors so China can't go in or out or lays in front of the door leading to where the computer is, but I just keep my eye out for that behavior and just push her out of the way. lol (thanks to tile floors they are easy to move lol). Sometimes when China wants to go some place in the house, I have to put myself between her and Violet, but other times I don't. I don't know, but I know we have not had one of those bad fights in a very long time.  Things are indeed getting better, but no more free feeding.  |
| Yay!! Keep us posted on how it's going.
I was excited because we went 3 whole days without a fight here but that has since changed. |
| We have waves when especially Lucky will be in a foul mood. We know to be on the lookout for it and to keep him occupied for a few days.
Glad to know you have found something that works with Clyde and Bear. |
| I too have found out to look at their body language just calling one of them immediately stops the fights.
Gabby is the problem she looks at Phoebe and growls since the fight, even if Phoebe just walks by her. They are never allowed to just run in the yard together. Eating is done in seperate rooms. I just can't wait for my brother to ge home I want things back to normal. Thank goodness it won't be too much longer. Your patience must be above and beyond to have to live with this type of behavior every day. It sounds like you have done a wonderful job I don't know who you do it. |
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