grooming tutor....what would you like to learn?

If you had an opportunity to have a hands on grooming session with your dog, what would you like to be taught? I'm curious to know what areas people need to understand in an effort to groom their OES. Thanks for your input.
FS

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How to cut and shape the hair properly when it is growing out.

How to comb tricky areas -- like around the mouth, armpits, toes, etc.

Valerie wrote:

How to comb tricky areas -- like around the mouth, armpits, toes, etc.

I second this!!!

Too many questions. I was just thinking Carl, Stacy or Lisa could pop by my house (LOL) and give me a few hands on pointers. :wink:

I don't get the whole bullseye, fan out, stuff for cutting the hair around the butt. I just cut around the butt however I want and makes sense to me. lol ...so just a general 'how to shape' would be nice! Maybe I can just become rich and have hair attachments place on Yuki so her hair is fluffy like all the stars.

How to manage the coat in extreme weather-like heavy
downpours, or snow. What steps to take after to minimize
matting-especially the neck and chest area. Our sheepie is
in a medium length coat.

Thanks!

I wish someone would host a hands on sheepie grooming workshop, we could all come and learn the right way to groom them. Teh dogs could play afterward and we could Lunch :lol:

Hey loried, I did it for Jill. The offer stands for anyone else here who isn't totally wacky. You're even in the same state, she had to take a plane.

Anybody with good personal hygiene and no police record is invited to come out to a show or to my house for a lesson. Just let me know. Most of this stuff is so important to have hands teaching. Videos are great but until you actually put your hands and a brush into a full coat, there will always be a little something that you are missing.

Maxmm wrote:

You do realize that you just eliminated 99.9% of us . . .

Maxmm wrote:

I should point out that it helped a lot too. A lot of the stuff that is so challenging is really easy to overcome when you know the little stuff to look for, like the almost invisible knots at almost the root level that have to be hand loosened and then removed when you're line grooming. Or even things like holding the brush the right way and not brushing towards yourself. It's all tedious little stuff but it's already made my grooming efforts easier.

floofdog wrote:

Maxmm wrote:

You do realize that you just eliminated 99.9% of us . . .

Don't worry, it pretty obvious that she didn't do her background checks... :twisted:

Could you define "No Police Record" please?

Are we including arrests, or just convictions? What about expunged records?

Just curious.

My record has been expunged and she let me in . . .

Quote:

Could you define "No Police Record" please?

Are we including arrests, or just convictions? What about expunged records?

You know... I do live in PA - I think I have the hygiene thing down,
but, well the police record.... Actually I think that was all before I
turned 18 anyway.

If you are seriously extending the invitation - I am SO there.

I learned a bunch by watching, and I have the stripping
down pretty well on Tucker, so he's pretty easy. Zeke on
the other hand, loves to be brushed but I am having trouble
with his coat.

As for the original question- I have trouble with feet/legs and
the butt thing totally freaks me out. I am so afraid I am going
to hack it up that both my boys are sporting the biggest furriest
butts ever. (and Zeke doesn't let me do his chest)

Shellie

Hey Jill,

Since you indicated you might attend the Midwest Sheepiepalooza in St. Louis next memorial day weekend is there any possibilty of small session? :plead:

It would probably be well received.

I could certainly use it. I groom Harry the way I sew. It looks good from the outside just don't look too closely at my seams or the inside. :roll:

Maxmm wrote:

Anybody with good personal hygiene and no police record is invited to come out to a show or to my house for a lesson.

Can you elaborate on where this record must be clear? What state/country etc?

SheepieMommy wrote:

Hey Jill,

Since you indicated you might attend the Midwest Sheepiepalooza in St. Louis next memorial day weekend is there any possibilty of small session? :plead:

It would probably be well received.

I could certainly use it. I groom Harry the way I sew. It looks good from the outside just don't look too closely at my seams or the inside. :roll:

I would be glad to share what I learned under the pretense that everyone knows that I am NOT a professional nor a show person, although I definitely trust what Mandy taught me. I never want to be mistaken for someone with much more skill and experience and I never want to put on airs like I do! That being said, if we make it, sure!

We want you there anyway but that would be great. Obviously there is a lot of interest out there.

I'm soooo surprised! I thought the replies would be about proper brushing technique, but trimming seems to be the main interest. Dogs must be coated and unmatted before we can start trimming. Also the butts are easier to do than they appear.
FS

I agree too. Maybe you should concentrate on a good technique of showing people new to the breed proper layer grooming of the coat, right down to skin level as a lot of people new to this breed only top coat brush and there is felting at skin level with the undercoat due to not having a proper brushing technique, the dogs usually end up in a mess and have to be shaved off to skin level.

Another good one is matt break up, how to easily do that without hurting the dog, also matt removal in tighter areas like under the armpits, on the beard and ends of the ears and between the toes.

Another one is nail clipping, especially black ones and what to do if you strike the quick and it bleeds and also in this breed ear plucking and keeping the ear canals free from hair as this breed can have ear problems due to the flat ears and hair inside the canals.

Shaping comes later when a dog is matt free. :wink:

Hope this helps and can give you some ideas as to what you can demonstrate to people who have OES.

guest wrote:

Jill, in your session did we even touch scissors? No.......I think everybody has been relying on Carl's essay, which is pretty inclusive, and they think they've got a good handle on line grooming. Nothing beats a hands on experience but the trimming thing is so hard to explain that it's piquing people's interest more. It's the more 'exciting' part of the whole thing too which is why I'm going to guess it's getting more attention.

Ron wrote:

Could you define "No Police Record" please?

Are we including arrests, or just convictions? What about expunged records?

Just curious.

Juvenile records are fine. Remember, I can check these things. :wink:

Ron, sealed records should be fine. I believe that no one will speak of 'the incident'.

Shellie, whenever you want to, come on over! Bring a baked good.

Oh and another thing! Three messages in a row, what am I doing?!

I'm still not 100% with the trimming either. That's one of those things that takes so long to master and is such a hard skill to even get your head around! I've seen some of the greatest sheepdog people do trimming and every single one of them does it differently. They are also very fast about it which makes it hard to learn just by watching. I think it's to hide their style or they've trained with ninjas!

Maxmm wrote:

Jill, in your session did we even touch scissors?

No, we watched Harry Potter instead so I got the quick verbal explanation. I haven't tried the feet trimming yet but I've been working on the butt. I've got a real stigma about cutting off "the shelf" I know it needs to go but it seem like it's gonna be such a big chunk to whack off. Every time I really get my trimming groove on, Clyde lays down. I really need James to get his butt in gear and make me a table!

I really really really need someone to show me how to shape the head so Walter can ditch his nerdy bowl cut :oops:

lisaoes wrote:

Another good one is matt break up, how to easily do that without hurting the dog, also matt removal in tighter areas like under the armpits, on the beard and ends of the ears and between the toes.

Another one is nail clipping, especially black ones and what to do if you strike the quick and it bleeds and also in this breed ear plucking and keeping the ear canals free from hair as this breed can have ear problems due to the flat ears and hair inside the canals.

Good points Lisa. Before I got Frank and planned on showing him, the only way I got rid of mats off of an OES was just cutting them off wtih scissors.This of course left huge holes.

De-matting a dog is certainly doable - just need a little patience.

Just the little time that I spent being around all of the other dog show people taught me so much.

FS, are you planning on making a video or something? It would be nice if one of the long-time experienced show people wouldn't mind being filmed to make a video DVD with the proceeds going to rescue or OES.org. All of the photo essays are great, but there is nothing like seeing it done in person. Especially when it comes to trimming & stripping. Maybe if we can do the video in short segments which could be easily downloaded also.

I would be happy to to show anyone how to groom & trim also. Not that I feel like I'm an expert or anything, but I think I did okay keeping Frank's coat up for show.

Lil Walty wrote:

I really really really need someone to show me how to shape the head so Walter can ditch his nerdy bowl cut :oops:

I'm not reallly sure what you are looking to do to shape his head? Believe it or not, in the dog show world, very little trimming is actually done because you really want the dogs to look as natural as possible. The only thing you should really be using scissors for is to round out the feet & trim the behind. Also scissors are used to take off the stringy ends throughout the coat but that is really kept at a minimum.

Maxmm wrote:

I agree, I've seen several people trim an oes for show and it's never the same way twice.
Boggles the mind. I think it's an art, I think that how to trim for show depends on the dog and it's individual strengths and weaknesses. I also think it's going to take me another 10 or 20 years to really get it down pat. :lol:

No, not interested in a video. I just was hoping to show people how to keep up a coat without taking days and using scissors for mats.
FS

I'v been thinking about these posts, and I don't know
about anyone else, but my problems are more about
getting the dog to cooperate without everyone getting
upset and making the situation worse. Aside from the
butt thing, which I think I could do with a little help.
The tight areas - as someone said - are more my
problem. The chest and under-leg areas are really
hard for me because my dogs can be jerks about it.
As for trimming, it's mostly because my dogs are both
shaved once a year and the face becomes a trouble area.
My guys both have long fur on faces, butts and feet. It
looks so dumb.
Also, it would probably help if I put an arm on my table. I
have problems getting them to stay standing while I trim.

Shellie

guest wrote:

You know, I was thinking about this. I think one of the reasons that proper brushing technique may not be coming up is because many people may not realize they're doing anything wrong-- and I am included in this group so I'm definitely not pointing fingers. Until Mandy showed me the different stuff to look for to demat while line grooming, I thought I was doing pretty good just separating the sections and brushing from the root to tip. I never realized I had to look for the tiniest knots and webbing and gently work those out and remove it from the good coat. I know on paper it just sounds like common sense but once you get in there and have someone point out to you what you're missing, it makes a lot more sense why the mat fairies sneak in and get ya!

ButtersStotch wrote:

guest wrote:

Definitely agree! I had no idea I was doing anything wrong and couldn't figure out why I wasn't able to keep them mat free until the last year or so, it took actually seeing other people groom their dogs in person to figure it out.

Shellie wrote:

I'v been thinking about these posts, and I don't know
about anyone else, but my problems are more about
getting the dog to cooperate without everyone getting
upset and making the situation worse. .......Also, it would probably help if I put an arm on my table. I
have problems getting them to stay standing while I trim.

Shellie

This is my area of expertise.The brush and trim that I do leaves something to be desired, but the dogs are happy and relaxed, and so am I. I find it theraputic, actually. And the dogs like it. Bosley comes over to the table and tries to get up himself.

If grooming has been a stressful and upseting time in the past then it will take time to "undo" that baggage.There is no magic wand to make it non-stressful all at once, but it can certainly be done over time.

I would suggest starting with one dog and just massaging him, nice and easy, so he gets into a relaxed state....almost sleeping. If you can get him to lay down on his side it will make all the difference. You can take a brush and simulate the massage, so the dog hardly notices the difference. Then stop before things start to go bad. Just stop and pick it up again at a later time. Keep the sessions very low-key, quiet and soothing.
I find it better not to restrain a dog, as that in itself is stressful. However, you need to be the one to decide when it is time to stop...not the dog. Therefore you stop them before he gets antsey.
Treat will certainly help...tiny, tiny peices of cheese or whatever your dog likes. Reward the dog with treats when the dog is quiet and calm. It is the calm behavior you are rewarding.
Don't wait until a struggle ensures then use a treat to distract as that is rewarding the struggle. Only reward when the dog is calm, quiet. Keep the session short and enjoyable and you can lengthen them little by little as the dog gets used to the new experience.

Bosley's mom wrote:

but the dogs are happy and relaxed, and so am I. I find it theraputic, actually. And the dogs like it. Bosley comes over to the table and tries to get up himself.

This is so true on it being theraputic. I totally look forward to plopping down on the floor in front of the TV with the dogs and spending a few hours brushing them and actually get to watch a movie or something. I also think the dogs find some enjoyment in it as well, especially since it seems to be their special time. Frank always tries to get up on the grooming table whenever I set it up too. That was also a problem at dog shows if I stopped near someone else's table, he would try to get up on it.

It takes a long time to build up to this comfort level and I definitely think it's easier when you get to start out them in puppyhood. Even though Rebecca is pretty good now & we started her at age 5, Frank is still so much easier to groom. I'm glad to hear Nicole how easy it has become for you to groom Dixie & Bos.

I just wanted to show this photo of Maxmm grooming at a show too. I'm not sure if you can tell, but Suzi gets so relaxed on the grooming table that she ends up sleeping most of the time. There is so much activity at dog shows, I'm amazed that she can snooze away. Come to think of it, if anyone ever attends a dog show, take notice at how relaxed the OES are on their tables compared to other breeds!

If that's ButtersStotch, she looks like she's doing the potty dance. :lol:

That or it's really cold.

Joahaeyo wrote:

If that's ButtersStotch, she looks like she's doing the potty dance. :lol:

That or it's really cold.

It was FREEZING in there! Notice me wearing a coat but I'm indoors? I think I had just taken my gloves off at that point.

That picture of Suzi is exactly how Chewie is on the table - she's just bigger and has more hair! LeAnne and I do find it very relaxing to groom our dogs, so I'm sure some of our enjoyment radiates through to them.

They even like baths. They are convinced it is a massage, and quality time with us that the other dogs are jealous over. They are smart -if you are tense, then they become the same and a viscious circle has begun.

Joahaeyo wrote:

If that's ButtersStotch, she looks like she's doing the potty dance. :lol:

Yep looks like that to me too, the cold is just her excuse

My dogs are so relaxed on the table that they snore, now that gets embarrassing when you are at a show or a pet expo. People ask are they alive or stuffed animals, I say listen to the sound effects coming from the table. :roll:

Well, if I had to go to the bathroom so bad, how come I'm drinking something? Gotcha there! :twisted:

Well those OES' take up the entire table, so where else would you set your drink down while you did the dance? all i know is, that's what I look like if I had to tinkle... :lol:

i can say the same thing about you being cold. last thing i'd want to hold if i was THAT cold was a cold soda (or whatever). I'd have my sleeves pulled down past my fingertips!

ButtersStotch wrote:

Well, if I had to go to the bathroom so bad, how come I'm drinking something? Gotcha there! :twisted:

Maybe it was ice-cold cranberry juice and it just got you thinking about it. :twisted:

All right lock this thread up. Let's talk about other people peeing...

The Darcy and Panda pic! LOL I love that.... :lol:

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