What age would my male dog be ready to mate??
Ive recently been appproached by a lady who would like to use my dog to mate with her bitch. Her bitch is 2yrs old and hasnt been mated before, my dog is 13months. What is a good age to use your dog as a stud. I hadnt intended to mate with him so not really sure how to approach the situation. Any advice??? Things I should ask her?? |
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| You have a ton of things to think about.
Number One: Even if you have the sire of these potential pups, you are responsible for them for the rest of their lives. You bring them into this world, you take care of them. 
Number Two: No dog should be bred under 2 years of age because conclusive health test cannot be preformed until that age. Not only your dog needs to be tested but the bitch needs tested as well. Don't even breed anything that gets less than a 'good' rating on hips. Hips, eyes, thyroid, elbows and heart are a good place to start. Number Three: Has your dog been evaluated for it's conformation? Is it just you and this one other person who think you have nice dogs? Everybody thinks that they have the most wonderful dog in the world but you need a disinterested third person to seriously evaluate these dogs and tell you if they are worthy of reproducing. There are enough nice and good dogs out there who need homes. Only spectacular dogs should be bred to perpetuate this breed. If we strive for mediocrity then we can only go downhill. This breed has enough health problems without more potential new ones cropping up. A LOT of work has been done to improve the temperament problems that arose from the 60's and 70's when the Disney movies made this breed popular and backyard breeders benefitted from the Hollywood exposure. Do you have permission from the breeder to breed your dog? It's their name on the dog and their line to protect. If there is no line to protect then do you know the medical history and breeding practices of at LEAST 3 generations back? Number Four: Have you considered the health problems that can arise from keeping your dog intact? Testicular cancer is prevalent in unneutered dogs. There are very different thoughts and data on this but no one will deny the behavioral problems that can arise from having an unaltered dog. Okay, I'm taking a break. I'm sure there will be more people who can give you input on this topic! Give your dog a hug and love him for all he is worth!! |
| Maxmm made excellent points and I can't think of anything to add. Please read Maxmm's response carefully.... twice.
Callie's Mom knows the heartbreak of irresponsible breeding. Her mom's sheepie Sadie (Callie's littermate) has hip dysplasia at the age of 2 and is already having trouble getting up/standing. http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=10498 At the very least, both the sire and bitch should be tested for their hips, eyes, etc. Think of the heartbreak you could be causing someone by producing unhealthy puppies. Think of the puppies who have to live and die with the potential health problems. |
| Even IF he has been evaluated for conformation, and your dog was
old enough to have had all the necessary testing (and was well rated) and you have permission to breed from your dog's breeder, and you know your dog's line is excellent, and you have a fabulous dog all around.... What do you know about the bitch? If she were a reputable breeder I doubt she'd be asking you to breed, with little or no knowledge of your dogs lines or health tests. What about her dog's history, health, testing, temperment? Is this other dog even an OES? I don't think you said.. If you are breeding dogs they should be matched for many points. Breeding isn't for most people and for even fewer dogs. It is never something to do on a whim or because they would make cute puppies. It's not a good way to make a few bucks, because with all the testing you probably won't make any or may even lose a few $$. A dog with a good disposition or personality traits is a great thing but only one on a long list of other things to atain before breeding. Even IF you have the perfect dog for breeding, it all means nothing if you don't know the same about the bitch. There will probably be more posts here that sound like we are negative or nagging - and maybe we are a little. We have just seen so many horrible things happen, and situations arise that might have been avoided along with all the heartache they cause, if only the dog had come from good breeding. Please read the responses all carefully -we only mean well. If you hadn't planned on breeding your dog, why is hs still intact? Please consider having him altered, it will be better for him and for you, and probably all the dogs in your neighborhood! Shellie |
| Can you tell we have some STRONG feelings about breeding here!?!
I can only add a heartfelf plea to PLEASE consider very seriously your choice when it comes to breeding. Only animals with proven genetic soundness, confirmation and temperment should ever be considered for a breeding program. This requires a commitment to genetic testing and showing as well as a lifetime commitment to any offspring produced. Shelters and rescues are full of abandoned dogs because someone thought breeding might be fun. |
Hi Fran & Alfie - I don't really have much to add except to say that Steph is right, I will never get a puppy from or in any way support a "backyard breeder" again... not because I think they are all bad people - I know that is not the case. Most people who breed their pets have only the best of intentions, they just don't understand the potential consequences.  (I certainly had no clue - breeding cute healthy dogs makes more cute healthy dogs, right?)
So I hope you are not overwhelmed (or scared away from the forum ) by all of the responses to your question, everyone is just trying to help you make the best decision for your dog and for the breed as a whole. And a lot of people are passionate about this issue because sheepies are our 'children' and we want to do what is best for them. |
| Maxmm has just about covered everything only want to add that you should know the pedigree background on the Dog and the bitch for at least 6 or 7 generations. So many nastie things can crop up without a detailed analysis of both pedigrees.
Health testing is very expensive too, running into many hundreds of dollars for each test done, eyes should be screened, hips/elbows graded and thyroid testing done before anyone even considers producing a litter, testing on both the potential sire and dam is a must. Also is the dog and the bitch Registered with the KC ? A dog should be at least 2 to stud as that means also that he is old enough for all the health screenings that are required, in some countries it is not mandatory to have these health tests done, but should be for the benefit of the breed, good ethical breeders have these tests done before even considering producing a litter.
It is an enormous responsibility to let a dog out to stud, just weigh up all the things involved before saying yes or no. Just as much responsibilty is with you and your dog as it is with the person who has the bitch as well. 
It's nice to be asked but there is a lot attached to that decision down the track. |
| Hi I appreciate all of your comments and helpful advice.
As you mentioned I hadnt intended to breed with Alfie, however even if you are not intending to breed with a male dog I see no reason to have them done. My dog has no problems with aggresion and is not over excitable and I have discussed this with my vet and their is no reason to say keeping him entire would cause health problems, therefore I see no reason to put him through an unnecessary operation. As you say a good dog is all in the breeding to get a good temperament and healthy dog not whether he is entire or not!!!. I have never looked into breeding with my dog and do not know what to look out for, so the questions and points you have made I appreciate but feel they were slighty aggressive and demeaning. I simply asked what age you could breed with them as I havent even had the chance to talk to the breeder or vet. I do understand tests have to be done and the situation looked into in great detail including the breed lines and health side of things etc. I understand you are all passionate about the breed, as I am too but was dissapointed with some of the responces I received. Anyway I do appreciate you all taking time to respond to my comments and help me. |
| Respectfully, I am suprised that a Vet would recommend keeping a male dog intact if you are not planning to breed. Testicular Cancer is primary concern with intact males and although it is more common with some breeds than others it is a worrisome problem.
Additionally, I am assuming from your question that you boy is young. Many aggressive tendencies related to remaining intact do not start to appear until the dog is older. My other concern with an "intact" dog is unintentional breeding. No dog is ever safe from getting out accidently, the shelters are full of "accidents". None of this is intended to be unkind. I understand that in other countries neutering is viewed differently but in this country there is a great deal of education and importance placed on contolling the birth of unwanted animals. MANY of the folks on this forum are very involved in working with shelters and resue groups. I believe the intent of every post here was to kindly provide some education. SInce you asked a question that indicated you were not a professional breeder the posters were trying to help you make an informed decision. You should not take anyones comments as aggressive or demeaning. We all love animals here, it is in that spirit that your question was answered. |
| First, it was not our intent to be demeaning or hurtful.
Good breeding does not happen by accident. I am surprised that your breeder did not have anything in your contract about neutering. Reputable breeders are very specific about their expectations as to the breeding/non-breeding of their pups. Breeding is something you think long and hard about before you ever get the puppy to begin with, not something you decide after you have bought the dog. Quote: As you mentioned I hadnt intended to breed with Alfie, however even if you are not intending to breed with a male dog I see no reason to have them done. My dog has no problems with aggresion and is not over excitable and I have discussed this with my vet and their is no reason to say keeping him entire would cause health problems, therefore I see no reason to put him through an unnecessary operation.
This concerns me. I am wondering if you misunderstood your vet? An unaltered dog is always a potential accidental litter, and additionally you run health risks in the long term. If a vet told me otherwise I'd be looking for another vet. If your dog is only 13 months, you may not have seen the peak of his behavior. In many dogs this does not develop until a little later. I understand you were just looking for info. We were not trying to be mean or anything like that. We were only trying to inform you. There are tons of back yard breeders, and puppy mills, and abandoned dogs in rescue, and these could have been avoided with few exceptions. Every time someone breeds that originally hadn't intended to, the problem gets bigger. Unfortunately, the average dog owner is not really aware of the problems and responsiblities. It was only our intent to inform you. This is a huge decision, and it shouldn't be treated lightly. There is so much information here on the forum, maybe you can get a better feel for why we reacted this way if you read more of our posts. Shellie |
| Something that you may not know is that even though your intact male is not agressive, or have aggressive tendancies, it has been proven that an intact dog often brings out agressive tendancies in other dogs....towards the intact male.
So if you wanted to do all you could to prevent him attracting agression and getting hurt by other dogs, you should get him neutered. |
| Thank you for your help and advice, I have to take Alfie to the vets again soon, so I will talk it over again with him. I appreciate your help. |
| Fran I just have to make a comment here as all countries are different, neutering the boys in Australia is not such a common thing. Girls yes because of the greater risk of having a bitch in heat and an unwanted pregnacy.
I know in some European countries de-sexing is not allowed at all on both dogs and bitches unless for medical reasons. My first sheepie was a boy and never neutered he was gentle and sweet and I had no problems with aggression from other dogs or with him, he passed away from old age and never had prostrate problems or Testicular problems with him, most male sheepies I know here are entire and just pets to many people, there is not such an emphasis on neutering males in this country. Each country has different guidelines as to what is best for dogs in those countries. Your vet in your country is the best one to give you advice there. |
| I think primarily, the outcry for spay & neutering in the US is because of so many irresponsible people letting their dogs mate and the amount of animals there are in shelters here. Not sure how much of an issue that is in other countries.
I know the statistics vary regarding prostate cancer in dogs. I have been around a few unneutered dogs who as seniors became absolute jerks which I felt could be attibuted for being entact since they were okay when they were younger. As much as I love Frank being an exhuberant clown, since neutering him over a month ago, he has mellowed a little already & seems to be losing his taste for drinking girl pee so I am happy with our decision. |
| So just out of curiosity, in Eurpoe where dogs are not neutered; is there a problem with over crowed shelters? Are dog owners "more responsible"?? |
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