A complaint about puppyfind.com. No consumer help at all.

Hi I dont know that this is totally related to puppy mills, but I do have a complaint about puppyfind.com. I have no doubt that they dont really care what happens and who sells pups to who and who scams who. i was trying to purchase a pug puppy from Palace Shihtzu ( Debbie Erickson) I sent her $310. which she said to put in her daughters paypal account. When she finally showed me the updated picture I had been asking for ..it did not even look like a pug let alone a purebred. She said she would refund me my money but never did. Puppyfind.com backed her up even though I sent them all the emails that she sent me proving what I say here as well as the picture she sent me of what ever mix of dog it was. They let her take off the bad review I posted which was all the truth with proof. And wont let me put a bad reveiw up about her . So I would have to say by the way they reacted to what she did .that I dont trust them either and you are right Jessica from puppyfind.com was no help at all!!

Respond to this topic here on forum.oes.org

I'm very sorry you had this experience, but your story will remain posted here.

Perhaps others will think twice before buying a puppy sight unseen, from an unknown breeder, over the internet.

Good luck in finding a resolution to your problem. Perhaps a dispute with PayPaw, or a dispute with your credit card company are your next steps.

A hard lesson to learn, a face to face relationship with a breeder is an important part of adding a puppy to your home. It amazes me that anyone would make such an important purchase sight unseen.

Fraud on puppyfind has become legend, I am a bit suprised that they remain online. I do hope you get you money refunded, no one deserves to be cheated.

Next time you look for a puppy I hope you will be able to find a reputable breeder, check with the local breed group or AKC for lists.

Thank you Ron I appreciate that. I did do a dispute with pay pal and I won as she would not reply back to them , but she made sure there was no funds in her (daughters paypal account) I now have my credit card company working on it and sent them all the emails ..hopefully they are more helpful then the rest. time will tell.
I have bought a beautiful boxer boy over the internet though and love him to pieces so there are some honest ones out there. This woman fooled me as we talked on the phone several times and she seemed very nice and maybe she does sell some ligitimatley but figures it was easy to scam someone so far away in another country. not sure but I think what upsets me the most is that Puppyfind will not let me post my bad reiview about her,, yet she can take of any bad reviews off so others can be scammed by her. and other scammers
They told me they need 3 bad reviews before they Might suspend her. That means every scammer on there is allowed to scam at least 3 people before ..maybe puppyfind would do something about it. Pretty sad buisiness . thank you all and be blessed

If you chargeback against PayPaw, be aware that PayPaw might freeze your account... you should also drain it of any funds soon.

HI Ron thank-you and I dont have any funds in it as I dont use it too much. I am wondering if you mean paypal instead of paypaw or is that a nick name for them you have?

I refuse to use their name since they've become an evil company.

http://www.oes.org/page2/9963~eBay_and_ ... y_now.html

gotcha Ron (wink)

IT used to be Puppydogweb, breeders,net that were popular for breeders to use now it is Puppyfind. The differnce is the others charged a breeder? to list their litter. Puppyfind charges by the puppy. MORE MONEY!!!!!!! They do not care anything about the health of the puppies or the reputaion of the breeder... . It is just a service offered to breeders? to sell their puppies. Mercy!!!!!! Kaye Second Chance OES Rescue of Texas

Well I guess the real name for it would now be puppymillscam.com

I had no trouble with the man I bought our puppies from on Puppyfind. He was honest, met us 1/2 way to deliver the puppies, has always been in contact with us if we had any questions. Not ALL people are looking to cheat others.

We have just experienced an awful thing through this website, puppyfind.com. We purchased a Keeshond puppy from Debbie Vandiver, Wentworth, MO for $850.00, sent a certified ck for $1155.00 to include shipping to our home in Alabama. Once Debbie received our check, she cut all communication. She advertised the puppy as AKC registerable, health certificate, vaccinations, etc...To our surprise, we did actually receive a puppy at the airport, but the wrong puppy. She has refused to send any papers on the pup. He has an obvious underbite and was diagnosed with hook worms, which he is currently being treated for. She cuts ties with you so you cannot send back the dog, giving time to become attached to the puppy, especially your children. Even after we got our pup, she continued to advertise the same dog, HANS! online for sale. We have documentation that she continued to try and sell the same dog she supposedly sold to us. I have filed complaints with the Attorney General of Missouri as well as Attorney General of Alabama. We plan to pursue with legal action in small claims court in Missouri if we must. One week after we got our pup, a complaint was posted on her website at puppyfind.com warning people to stay away from her. She would not return calls and could not produce papers on the dog she had sold to this gentleman. I am really curious to know how many people thing they own a puppy named HANS! There is no telling how many times he has been sold, over and over by this vicious individual. I am now left with a dog for the next 15 years that I didn't ask for. It is my understanding, puppyfind.com is only there to allow listings, they certainly have no intentions of getting involved. I did check out this breeder through her veterinarian of which she gave me the phone number, however, the vet had no idea she was committing internet fraud with her pups. I knew we were opening ourselves up to be scammed, however you still somehow want to trust people, but after almost $1200 later, I have learned my lesson. Stay away from any breeder online...even when you check them out like I did. Debbie Vandiver has disappeared from puppyfind.com within the past few days. She was selling 6 different breeds of puppys. I am sure she is running scared. I have notified her veterinarian of her doings, however, beware if she reappears as a breeded selling online. Hopefully as soon as the Attorney General investigation is complete, she can never harm another individual. IMMOSMOM@AOL.COM

I am writing since I've had unbelievable experience with dogs I purchased from Puppyfind. We met the "breeder", picked out our pups, then found out 1 "died". When we picked them up and got home we realized a couple months later that 1 of the puppies was not the one I picked out since I compared pictures I had taken at the breeders place which was not his home as he advertises. Then the most heartbreaking thing happened to our dogs, their parents were carrying a recessive gene for Lion Jaw or cranial deformities that do not show up until 3-4 months. After extensive research, I found that this did not need to happen if the breeder were more careful with his breeding stock. We have managed the disease with our pups for 1 year, alot of pain medications, vet trips, laser treatments and they are doing well now. So, even visiting the breeder before hand didn't help us. The worse part is he is still using these breeding pairs and selling online.

I too have had a bad experience with Palace Shih Tzu. She had a shih tzu puppy posted. She offered to sell it to me, then said she wanted to keep it, then SHE CONTACTED ME and offered it again. She mentioned she sold the sire to another breeder, when I contacted that breeder(located in Nebraska), all the puppies are posted on her web site. Palace is located in NY. I thought the dogs might have been owned by the breeder in Nebraska but infact she stated the dogs are in NY with Debbie, she was only posting them for her. Debbie replied only because Nebraska breeder contacted her. Her response was: I decided the dog was worth more and am stilling selling him but not to me. When I mentioned this Pug complaint she said they were her daughters dogs. Also, at one point the puppy I wanted was removed from Shih Tzu and appeared under a new breed chinese imperial for $1500.00. When I confronted her she said it was a friends dog, not the same. I mentioned what a coincidence both dogs were the same color and had the same DOB she hung up on me.

I would say that you are VERY LUCKY not to have ended up with the pup and should not be dissappoited at all.

Find a reputable breeder, one that shows, does genetic testing and has proof of the health of their off spring. Look for a breeder that stands behind their pup for the life of the dog.

I recently purchased a baby basset hound from Debbie Vandiver on puppy find.com I sent her a money order for $745.00 and once she received my payment she NEVER returned any of my phone calls! She offered me a 1 year warranty on the puppy, said he was AKC registered and was up to date on all his vaccinations. I never received ANY paperwork on my puppy. She was suppose to ship the dog on 2-19-07, Monday but never did and claimed it was because she had the flu. She sent me an email claiming she had bad reception and couldn't call me. After receiving several emails full of excuses it was clear to me that this was a scam artist. The shipping agent that she uses - runway pets has been excellent. I complained to them about her and they said she is a long time customer of theirs and that they would contact her for me. They called and emailed her and she NEVER returned any of their calls.

I was convinced at that point that I was not getting my puppy. Thursday 2-22-07 she shipped the puppy to me and I was in shock as to what condition my puppy was in. His first flight from Tulsa was cancelled and she NEVER called to inform me! When the puppy finally arrived 6 HOURS LATER he arrived in a shipping crate that was TOO SMALL FOR HIM. American Airlines was mortified and said they would contact her and report the condition of the puppy. My puppy was in shock from being cooped up in a crate with no head room or room to turn around in!

The puppy was FILTHY I had to bathe him as soon as I got him home. The next day I took him to the hospital and the doctor told me my 9 week old puppy was neutered!!! I was not aware of this. Debbie didn't send any paperwork regarding this let alone tell me! The puppy has parasites and the incision from his "butcher" was still OPEN and puss was coming out of it. She sent this puppy to me in Florida from Missouri in that condition!!! I am FURIOUS! There is no valid paperwork regarding the puppies authenticity. His vaccination records are written in pen - easily forged. This puppy was raised in a filthy reckless environment. I am taking my puppy to the vet tomorrow to get further checked out. He has diarreah, is in shock, not eating and is VERY THIN. You can see his rib cage.

This monster has to be stopped. I'm filing a lawsuit agains this woman. If anyone has any advice as to how I can contact the attorney general of Missouri please let me know. The hospital and vet bills are adding up and this woman WILL REIMBURSE me every cent. I refuse to let her get away with harming another animal and scamming another customer.

If anyone can offer any help to point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it.

honeybfly002@yahoo.com

I purchased a puppy from Puppy Find, I was almost scammed, I notified Puppy Find and I tried to post a review on this person, it would not go . I was looking for a Cavalier King Charles Spanniel. This "breeder" mill posted a picture of this cute Cavalier in my price range. I phoned her and got a second party that claimed she posted puppies because the breeder was a "little old lady" who did not know how to use a computer! I was given her phone number directly. I asked all the correct questions and received the correct answers. When I showed up in the back hills of Salem Missouri, I was horrified. A trashy trailor with chicken wire boxes on the front lawn, under trees, and on the side of the house, not crates! She came to the front porch before we could take off. She was holding a puppy. We went into the filthy smelly trailor, she had two full bassinetts of puppies. I asked about the puppy I saw on puppy find, she picked up a puppy and said this was the one, it was not! On puppy fin!d she listed the puppy at seven weeks old, these puppies were three months to six months. I asked to see the parents, she said they were "at the groomers" but showed me a picture of them! I asked her for the health report on the parents, she gave me the name of a vet in Webster Groves Missouri and told me to call them they took care of her puppies for 20 years. We did find a pup that stole our hearts, the lady told me to bring $500.00 cash because she had trouble with people bouncing checks. We brought cash. Then when I went to pay for the pup, she said, oh that one is 850.00. She knew we got attached to that one pup. My husband warned me before we walked in to be prepaired to walk away no matter what! She refused to sell the pup at the price she stated all her puppies were to sell for 400.-500.00. We started to leave, she said, well I know you will love her I will let her go for $550.00 plus 20.00 for the micro chip. We brought $500.00! I came up with an extra 20.00 for the micro chip. She had very poor eye contact and would change the subject when my husband would question her about her breeding experience, where she kept the puppies, who many did she breed, she would not even answer she said we could be from animal control. We took out paper work and got out of there. The puppy smelled so horrible we found a dollar general and baught baby wet wipes so that we could stand the trip home. She still posts the same picture that bated us! I reported her to the AKC., they responded that they are non profit and could not check on every breeder.

Sorry for the long story.
Molly

There are warning bells everywhere in these stories. I really don't know why anyone would buy a puppy sight unseen, know nothing about the "breeder" or the true background of the dog and are shocked when it goes wrong. Why would anyone send large sums of money to people they've never met and expect them all to be honest? A real breeder would be happy to answer any and all questions, have the dam and/or sire on site and have actual proof of vaccines and any genetic tests that were done.

I wish you had remained strong and walked away; sorry to say that you are right; you "almost" got scammed, but wound up "fully supporting" a puppy miller even though you knew better.

Stories like yours are very discouraging to me. How the heck can a lifetime of providing education to get people to understand and not support puppy millers possibly overcome the cute little puppy?

Even so, I hope you and your dog are very happy together, and healthy.

I agree with Ron. This woman and her "broker" have again made a profit on the backs of innocent creatures forced to continue to make them money.
Backyard breeders and millers and pet stores are all in the same boat. People need to be strong and just say "no" and walk away. It is only if and when the market is no longer there that they will cease.

Let me say to those who can't believe we would buy puppies, sight unseen, my husband and I are very well educated people, own several businesses, and certainly we know in our hearts better than to purchase a dog from the internet, however; we were unable to find the breed dog in our area that our children had previously had with excellent results, we researched online. The entire time I had knots in my stomach because my instincts tell me better than to send a certified ck to someone I do not know. Somehow you justify in the back of your mind that most people will be honest and come through with the product. My husband was fairly comfortable with the exchange, so I made myself relax. We had no idea of the problems with "puppy mills" since we have never purchased a dog in our lives. I always felt pet stores were the way to go until I have recently read articles against it. So where do you go, and what are the best ways to find pups for those looking? I still have no idea apparently. Even when you visit a breeder, you have no idea what their practices are. You only go on what you are told. You can only gather so much information by how clean a place is, this still doesn't guarantee the dogs are well cared for. I did speak with the vet who cares for the dogs I purchased. I was given thumbs up as to this breeder and her dogs all checked out healthy, according to the vet. So I did check out this person, only problem was, the vet was being scammed too. I have now reported her practices to the vet and she has changed vets, surprise...

My initial complaint registered against Debbie Vandiver, she has removed her pups from puppyfind.com and is now advertising with nextdaypets as evdebbie....STAY AWAY FROM THIS PERSON. I have 5 emails after posting mine online as to her scamming others. If there are others out there with an expericence with this person, please email me at IMMOSMOM@AOL.COM. I continue to forward this information to the Attorney General as well as the Agricultural Dept of Missouri.

immosmom@aol.com wrote:

Education in one area does not mean you are educated in ALL areas. You did not do enough research because, if you did, you would not have followed through with the transaction. A simple internet search would have brought up this very thread that you're posting to-- in fact it's the FIRST thing that comes up if you type in OES and puppyfind! Even if you didn't pick an OES, a search on the word "puppyfind" brings up this thread as the third option in the search. You don't have to know anything about dogs to do research on a company before you invest in it.

There is much more to getting a good dog than just visiting a breeder. You pick a breeder based on referrals, seeing their previous pups, their current dogs, show titles, health certifications, testimonials. Please visit the Old English Sheepdog Club of America Web site (www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamerica.org) before considering another dog or the other breed club's site if you were considering another breed.

It's amazing to me that a person who claims to love animals would NOT support another person who is trying to detour others from falling prey to a scam artist who obviously has a total lack of respect for animals in general. The focus here is on a monster puppy mill breeder named Debbie Vandiver. Unfortunately she has scammed many people but due to supportive communication her breeding rights are slowly but surely coming to an end.

Posting replies to those that purchased a dog "sight unseen" and pointing the finger at individuals who DID their research - basically saying "shame on you" for being scammed is ridiculous and quite honestly makes me wonder if they share the same mindset as Debbie Vandiver or possibly they are related to her since they seem to defend her fraudulent schemes.

You can do all the research in the world and still be left with an unfortunate outcome. If you don't have any supportive feedback to add to this forum regarding unfortunate incidents such as this particular case against Debbie then why bother posting anything at all? If you love dogs I would assume your purpose would be to ensure the safety of them instead of attacking those who are trying to see to it that another animal doesn't become harmed by this woman again.

-Charli

Because we're not an Amen Chorus here. We support the dogs the best way we can. We allow posters to expose to the sunlight bad behavior by breeders. We also want to teach the world to stop using bad pet buying practices.

Responding to people who have made bad decisions and pointing out where they made their mistake(s) perhaps might save some other dogs someday, and maybe even the broken hearts of some other families, too.

Please be sure to check around other parts of this site and see if we're empathic enough.

I have checked around this site and yes OTHERS are empathetic.

Thanks

honeybfly002 wrote:

Wow, way to shirk all responsibility for a bad decision!

No one here is condoning bad behavior by the breeder and no one is suggesting that she continue in any bad practices. However, posts like this should serve as a warning for people to take the time to research both the animal and breeder of their choice. If every person who was ever scammed did the right research, I think there would be a lot fewer scams in this world. I'm sorry if you take offense to that, but it's true. I think it's unfortunate that any animals are suffering but ignoring the fact that this could have been avoided by getting a puppy in a responsible way instead of trusting a faceless person on the internet does a disservice to anyone reading this thread. I agree that it's upsetting that there are dishonest people in this world but that's how life goes. All you can do is take as many steps as possible to protect yourself.

Well, i am a breeder and i use puppyfind.com to find good homes for my puppies.... did it ever occurred to you people out there that bad "consumer scammers" also act on the other way around? I have got fake money orders on the mail... i have being tried to be scammed so many times myself...

Now: i am a real breeder and i do care for my animals! I do my reserch and everything i can to find the truth about the prospective owners for my puppies. I say: it is the world we live in!!! I have heard bad and good histories from people all over, both sides.

If you are dealing online you just have to use common sense!!! I was almost scammed... almost!!! many times... common sense made me get away from puppy mill owners trying to get my blood lines, crazy watever people trying to get a free puppy or money back: Common sense !!!! that is the word. I have a good reputation that i point out everytime someone asks for a great deal or a discount on a puppy.

If it is an offer too good to be true... IT IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE! If you are looking into an expensive breed , hard to find, you are not going to find a great deal online!!! If a puppy costs about 1200 to 1800 dollars in your area and you are looking online to get one for 500 to 800 you are asking for trouble...

A good breeder will: Know a lot... a whole lot about the breed, will send you pictures before you can send any money, will not be in a rush to sell the puppies before they really are ready to go and has pride!!!! By that i mean, a good breeder would rather donate free of cost one of theyr puppies instead of making a"good deal" . It is more decent!!! I am not kidding...

I hope by posting this i can only help you guys out there. I understand the frustration and all, but since i saw no breeders posting i thought that maybe sharing my point of view would help. Classifieds, nextday pets, puppyfind or watever... all great tools, but it is only an ad place. You need to reaserch and talk to the person about the particular things before you make a decision... anyways life is not perfect.

I had sold a puppy for someone who did not care for it before, although i do all i can... i cried, lifted up and became much wiser, fussire and frank after that... if you guys ever contacted me you will be asked a bunch of questions, may get to be found a bit rude.... i would not say that i will never make another mistake, but i will rest easy at night knowing that if i did i am not perfect, but i did my best to try to avoid it!!! And that will keep me going as it has to this day...

I am posting this under a nickname, this is a forum, not an advertisement place!!!

Blessings to all

I am a breeder of cavalier king charles spaniels. I sell my puppies on puppy find. I have never had a single disatisfied customer in 5 years as a breeder. I think buying a puppy online is a great way to find the right breed and puppy. Just be careful. Before shipping any puppy I have sent at least 10 pics to the person buying the puppy. Sometimes 30 or more. With digital cameras it is easy to take any requested photo. In less than 5 minutes. If a breeder can not do this don't buy from them. When requested I send copies of the puppies papers and vet records before I ship the puppy. If a breeder will not do this don't buy a puppy from them. If the breeder is worried about the papers and vet records being used for ill purposes all they have to do is write copy and their info on the papers they send. When checking references be sure the breeder is not giving you cell numbers that they have their partners in crime answer and pretend to be satisfied customers. Ask whoever the breeder refers you to to send you a pic of their dog. Don't buy the cheapest puppy that is advertised for your chosen breed. You don't have to buy the most expensive either just find one in the middle. I think its a good idea to ask the breeder to take a picture of the dog that includes an item specified by you and the breeder should not take all day to get the pic to you. Get pics from every angle including the belly and paws. It seems like alot of the scammers are in the mid west and some in the south. Before anyone gets upset that I mentioned certain regions I know there are good and bad breeders everywhere I am just making an observation. These stories just break my heart. These people must be stopped! It is worth taking the extra time and effort to make sure you are buying from a reputable breeder.

I also have had a bad experience with puppyfind.com. I purchased a registered male boxer from LBR Boxers... Joyi Ginel was the supposed breeder I did get the dog but no papers. The reason my daughter and I purchased the dog was to use him for breeding purposes. Joyi kept promising to send the papers and now her phone number has been disconnected. I have emailed puppyfind.com over and over and no one responds. You are right they don't care Joyi Ginel is a scam artist, she does not follow thru. There are a lot of unscrupulas breeders out there. They don't care about the breed or who they sell to they only want the money. My daughter used her 4-H money for this dog because she wanted to raise nice puppies to sell for her education account. I'm not going to let this end. These people need to be held responsible for their actions. They need to be stopped. I have contacted the Orlando Florida State dept of Ag consumer affairs. There is a puppylemon law. There are hoops you haveto jump thru and I'm following thru. This is called fraud and needs to be stopped. You can email me at: theonionmarket@my180.net or call me Celie Sturm 509-520-5587 to join in and stop this.

We have been able to finally contact Joyi Ginel and she is working with us to get Shooters papers. I really hope this resolves the issue and to update you puppyfind has emailed me back. So I hope this turns out good.

As someone who has purchased two pups on puppyfind and had wonderful experiences with both... And now have the litter of their pups advertised on puppyfind, I just want to say that buying and selling on the site can be a wonderful and positive experience.
The selection of puppies in the particular breed we wanted was extremely limited in our local area... so I started looking online and found exactly what I was looking for.
Because we have spent 10 weeks loving and helping to take care of their first litter, we want them to go to the best homes possible... and puppyfind gives us the opportunitiy to screen potential buyers. We've sold three pups to three different absolutely wonderful people who's personalities were perfect matches for the individual pups.
I would suggest (as other people have) that if you find a puppy online (on any site) that you ask for pictures of the pup with unique items - - such as a coke can in the picture or a telephone -- basically something off the wall that will prove the pup actually belongs to the person advertising it. Also, ask for references. I am more than happy to give names/address/phone numbers to potential buyers for not only people who have purchased other puppies... but also for our vet. If someone has nothing to hide, they should be more than happy to share that info with you.
As for the posting in this thread where the buyers went to the home to purchase the pup and found horrible conditions.... honest people with pups who are raised in good clean conditions should be willing to send pictures of the environment in which the pups are living. Here again, to verify that the picture is truly the environment the pup is living in... the pup should be IN THE PICTURE.
Puppyfind and other sites that sell puppies are truly wonderful tools that give not only the buyers but also the sellers the opportunity to connect with the specific buyer or seller that would best fit the individuals needs. Just use caution - ask lots of questions - ask for lots of pictures - ask for references - ask for specific pictures with unique props - ask for the name, address and phone number of the vet - ask for pics of the environment and the parents of the puppy -
An honest seller should be more than happy to provide all of this and those of us who truly love our pups WANT you to ask!

I happened on these complaints by accident. I am so glad I did. I must say that I am so shocked at all the puppies for sale in the internet! I have checked them out just to see what different breeds look like and where breeders are located. What a business! I don't think I would ever actually buy a puppy this way. I think it is so important to see for myself where the puppy lives and the parents. Also the type of enviroment the breeders themselves live in! I know I would never pay some of the exorbatant prices they are asking! Most certainly I would not send them money in advance. "Buyer beware" can not be stressed enough! Something really needs to be done about this. Unfortunately too many shady and disgusting things happen on the internet. It needs to be regulated. So people....be more aware!!!! People can say whatever they want...they can pretend to be who ever they want.

I am so sorry that there are people out there running such scams. I am a breeder and I use puppyfind. It has been a great help to me in finding wonderful homes for my puppies. Please do no assume that everyone, everywhere, who breeds and sells on puppyfind is the same. I love and care for my dogs and they are my life. Please don't lump everyone together. I am terribly sorry that there are people out there who are such crooks. I hope that everyone who scams people on the sale of dogs that don't exist will get what they have coming to them, and that the victims (canine and human) find justice.

Bless you all.

I have been using puppyfind for quite some time now. I am getting ready to purchase my third puppy from there. I am happy to say that each one of my experiences have been really good. There are hundreds of reputable breeders who advertise on the site. There are some bad ones just as there are bad people everywhere. I am thinking it would be completely impossible for puppyfind to screen everyone who uses their services. There are just as many scammers on other sites too. Thousands of positive transactions happen through puppyfind, and it is not fair to down the entire site because some people choose to misuse it.

I was reading the complaints and have a comment.....I have been a "small" breeder of champion pomeranians for over 20 years now and can tell you that there are good, loving and caring breeders out there....I have only one thing to advise someone shopping for that perfect addition to the family and that is to buy A.K.C.!!!......It costs a breeder almost 3 times as much money in paperwork, however, there is a reason for it....A.K.C. will come unannounced to a breeders home and DNA every litter, check that the dogs are being kept clean and healthy and happy which offends and "scares" puppymills and people who are breeding for quantity and not quality because legal charges of fraud can be brought against them if they are found guilty of this.....Yes, it is an inconvenience and yes it costs the breeder a lot more money and yes, a buyer may pay "little"more for a puppy but it is to the benefit of the people I sell to why I am only A.K.C. registered....C.K.C. and the newest registry APR or APRI are the worst...yes, your dog will have "papers" but all that breeder had to do is send a picture in of the mother and if it looks like the breed well, they send them papers on the dog.....PLEASE, if you are going to buy ANYWHERE from ANYONE odds are in your favor if you are buying from someone who registers A.K.C.....Also, ask the breeder for the AKC # of the parents before you send money and call AKC to see if they are legitimate.....I don't advertise with puppyfind.com....I do enjoy looking at their prices as I find the dogs are EXTREMELY expensive and over-priced....If you are in the market for pomeranians I am in the Houston, Texas area....Good Luck and God Bless!!!

I was shocked to see this forum and this particular email from sincerehrt4god77. It's EXACTLY the same as my story, only a different scammer. I tried to purchase a blue Shar Pei puppy from AMY Bullock in Philadelphia, and actually drove up there from MD to see the pups in person. I picked out an adorable 6-wk-old blue shar pei female and gave Amy $700 as a deposit on the $1,500 price. I was to go back to Philly and pick her up in 2 weeks when she turned 8-weeks-old. This transaction occurred on a Sunday. During the next 3 days, I emailed her with basic questions regarding food, type of kennel to purchase, etc. I also continued to ask her to send me a photo of the puppy I chose (called Pink & Purple) because I could not take one when I was there (pups were all inside and not enough light and outside it was gloomy and then it rained). Well, I asked her a couple of times and then when she finally sent a photo on Wednesday, I noticed that the embedded date on the picture was January 2007 (there were actually 2 photos from January). I visited Amy in early JUNE 2007 and she told me that this was actually her first litter. In addition to the wrong date, I also noticed that the puppy was considerably larger than she had been only 72 hours earlier. So, I replied to her email in a joking tone and mentioned the dates of the pictures and said "If this is my puppy, she is going to be HUGE" (referring to the size difference -- Amy later claimed to a third disinterested party (a very well-known showdog breeder in S.C. who shall be nameless) that the pup only LOOKED bigger because it was sitting on the lap of her mom who is only 4'11". Well, mom could have been 6'4" for all I care, the point is that she was sitting downAND she was fat, so how do you get a 6-week-old puppy to look like a 3-4 month-old puppy when it's sitting in the lap of a fat woman who's sitting down??? Nonsense! Anyway, back to Amy's response. She said she couldn't believe that I thought she had "forged" the pictures, and then sent me another email saying that her "instincts" told her it was best not go forward with this transaction and said she would return my $700 and asked if I wanted a check or money order. I wrote back telling her I wanted a Cashier's Check, since I gave her cash. Well, long story short, when she finally sent the cashier's check and I took it to a branch of the same bank which issued it, I was told that she'd put a STOP PAYMENT on the check!!! How in the world can one do that on a cashier's check? The bank told me it was simply ... just say the check was lost or stolen and pay a nominal fee and that's that.

So, like my unfortunate friend, sincerehrt4god77, I also contacted PuppyFind and I also sent them the email string between Amy and myself and explained that I had no puppy and she still had my $700. Well, you know the rest. Little Jessica at PuppyFind sent me the same pat response she probably sends to everyone, saying they could not legally force Amy to pay and I could go to court but that she could possibly remove the ad if I sent proof that I'd been scammed. Well, I sent all the proof I had, including the signed contract on the puppy, Amy's promise to send me the money, a copy of the check she'd sent, and a phone number to the bank so Jessica could call and verify that there indeed was a stop payment issued. So, what did PuppyFind do? N-O-T-H-I-N-G! In fact, after I submitted all the info and Jessica sent me a couple of responses telling me Amy's side of the story, the emails simply stopped. No more, nothing, nada. I sent another email asking if I could write a bad review and Jessica didn't even bother to respond. Her emails led me to the inescapable conclusion that PUPPYFIND REALLY DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE WELFARE OF THESE PUPPIES and it seems, just like in sincerehrt4god77's case, they took the breeder's side even in the face of evidence that would be very convincing to a judge or jury. It really is very discouraging that it seems that all they care about is making the bucks from selling ad space to breeders -- both legit and disreputable. I was never contacted again to find out if there had been any further progress or if I knew what happened to the little puppy. Well, fortunately for me, I am a lawyer (the reason I believe Amy decided to back out once she knew that I suspected something wasn't right) and I wasn't about to just give her my $700. I went back to the bank a couple of days later and instead of speaking with a teller, I spoke with several ladies in customer service, who in turn spoke with the branch manager. She called the bank's corporate headquarters and was told that although the SP was still showing on the teller's screen, it was not showing on the management side. And, since Amy had enough money in her account to cover the check (and because I brought the check in to prove it had not been lost or stolen), the bank cashed the check and I got my money back (I have a feeling that Ms. Amy wasn't too happy when she learned that I was able to get my money back even after she'd paid $20 to stop the check). After this, I wanted to post a negative review on her site. However, as the previous writer said, PuppyFind allowed the seller he dealt with to take his negative review off. So what's the point of allowing a review at all if they all have to be positive??? Isn't the point supposed to be to allow persons who have had legitimate problems with a breeder to post their story as a potential warning to other buyers? I don't think so, folks. PuppyFind is totally irresponsible in allowing a seller (in my case, a SCAMMER) to remove any review they don't like. What happened to caring about the welfare of the puppy? Apparently, like the previous writer said, they couldn't care less! Now I don't even believe the positive reviews because obviously, they could be written by the seller as well. It's not like PuppyFind would go to any trouble to check the source of the email or anything as simple as that. So, based on what I now know of PuppyFind, I will not even bother to post a complaint about Amy Bullock because she will only remove it. Clearly, a poor review is not a good sales pitch to attract more unsuspecting buyers who, perhaps as I did, believed sellers of helpless little puppies would be honest. My story shows that even if you take the time and trouble to travel some distance to meet a seller in person and see their dogs, you can still get scammed. This woman is a pure, unadulterated SCAMMER. Shame on you, Amy, and more importantly, SHAME ON YOU, PUPPYFIND, FOR NOT CARING ONE IOTA ABOUT THE WELFARE OF THESE BEAUTIFUL BABIES AND APPARENTLY CARING ONLY ABOUT THE LOSS OF REVENUE you would have if you were to take a seller's ad down. You Suck! :evil:

And, thus, we have learned AGAIN - NEVER do business this way!!! ALWAYS deal with a reputable breeder - for OES, here is the spot to start - although - I would NEVER say outright DO NOT GO TO THEM - but I would steer you away to another source - when you say a breeder is not good - especially on a site such as this - you open yourself up to a lawsuit because you are involved in "ruining their business". So don't think any of us can go there....but if I am asked about a specific breeder, who is not reputable to my knowledge, my steering you away to another location is my way of letting you know....

Food for thought:

If a breed is unavailable in your area:

Contact the rescue organizations. Maybe they can connect you with someone that knows where a puppy of that breed is available for adoption.

There are many purebred's looking for homes, dogs and puppies.

These groups will connect you with trustworth people, not scammers. Their ONLY concern is the welfare of the animal. You'll be helping both, the organization and the dog/pup. Probably would save you bundles of money too.

mouthypf

I am sorry to hear so much negative talk about puppyfind. The problem is , most people don't care enough to check where the puppy they want is coming from. I am a dog breeder and I do not ship dogs. I require that the new owners come and pick up the pup so that they can see both parents. People pay in cash or credit card at the time of sale with both parents standing there. So maybe these people should use better practices when buying a pup, rather than blame puppyfind for their lazy idea of shipping a puppy across the USA sight unseen it would not take much more than a weekend to pick up a puppy. I am happy to say i don't have any problems like the ones mentioned here. If the breeder is willing to ship a dog to you without baulking you should beware. Puppyfind find never claimed to be animal rights activist. They only provide a classified section for dogs. Since when are they responsible for the consumers satisfaction. I never heard of puppyfind inspecting a facility or making any demands on the breeder. They also don't charge by the pup they charge a monthly fee and a person can post a bird dressed as a dog if it is their fancy.BLAME YOURSELF FOR BEING A LAZY SUCKER WHO DIDN"T CHECK OUT OR PICK UP YOR PUPPY AND YOU GOT THE SHAFT HA HA HA :lol:

Now that's really funny -- here comes someone who "does everything right" to defend puppyfind over the breeders who are giving her service a bad name!

Lady (or sir), you're nuts. I guarantee you that many people aren't shopping with you because of puppyfind's reputation. If you want to be associated with the scum breeders of the puppy world that's fine. But let me ask you this: Why did you feel it was necessary to post here to defend puppyfind?

Hmmm?

scammed by Leslie Holland and Vicky Sterns on puppyfind

i paid 700.00 for a hairless chinese crested listed with show lines. i was told he couldn't fly out the first week because he wasn't feeling himself and had to return the vets the following thursday. i did research and talked to this woman for weeks before sending her my money. And the money order was cashed and i never heard from her again. She sent me pictures of him as a baby, as an 8 week old pup, even on the vet's examination table. She removed her listing from puppyfind.com so i cannot leave any review at all. i just reposted the dog and wrote fraud. Made an online complaint which seems to amount to a hill of beans and am robbed of 700 dollars, while my husband is in afghanistan and finally said i could get a cresty and our 4 kids hearts are broken after seeing pictures and then finding out no puppy was coming.

Some people must have an aweful lot of trouble sleeping at night.

Magisch wrote:

scammed by Leslie Holland and Vicky Sterns on puppyfind
[...]
Some people must have an aweful lot of trouble sleeping at night.

Unfortunately, the people without scruples who would ever do something like this sleep very well while the screwed beat themselves up for getting conned.

I purchased 2 shih tzus from a breeder in Thailand. Their dogs were magnificent when I saw them online. I knew that I had to have them. I was rather afraid prior to sending them money for the dogs, that I might never see the dogs and be scammed out of more than 2,000.00. Luckily, I was able to contact a person that had purchased 2 dogs from them previosly as to their experience with this breeder. They assurred me that this breeder was absolutely truthful in their presentation of their dogs. So, I sent the money and when I received my dogs I was taken aback as to the condition they were sent to me. They were absolutely gorgeous!!!! They were in such condition that I could have put them in the show ring that weekend. I plan on purchasing another dog from this breeder in the future. If you are looking for a beautiful Shih Tzu for what I consider a reasonable price, look into Dollydoghouse. I also found these dogs on puppyfind but unlike others, had a great experience. Believe me, this is not to say that the buyer should not beware.

I have been reading these posts and am very glad the same thing did not happen to me when I purchased my bullmastiff puppy from a breeder on Puppyfind. Thank you Tisha for a wonderful puppy. One thing that I would like to suggest and something that I used to insure that the puppy I recieved was not only the one I wanted but also healthy. Use an escrow account, puppyfind has a link site for this wonderful option and if the breeder does not want to use this service then DONT buy from them. Escrow basically puts the money on hold until all parties are satisfied, it can be set up in a variety of ways and allows for security on both parts. I don't understand why more people don't use this service, even though it costs a little more it gives some peace of mind. Puppyfind should be more responsible for the people that purchase puppies from the breeders they allow to list, but if they won't be safe then do it for yourself.

I think the moral of the story is Buyer Beware! And do your homework. It's so sad that we can't simply trust the people advertising on there, but it seems to be the way it is. I am sure there are a lot of reputable, moral sellers on Puppyfind, but unfortunately there are also a lot of unscrupulous people.

We're 8 weeks away from getting our puppy through puppyfind, and although I believe that we really did find one of the good breeders, I would like to offer the following advice:

*Get references from the seller and actually communicate with those people (don't just view their posting).
*Don't get your hopes up too high in the beginning because sometimes things just don't work out.
*Make sure the breeder offers up lots of information on their health and care, offers a guarantee on the health of the pup, and does not seem overly fixated on getting your money.
*If at all possible, pick up the puppy in person so you can see what you're getting and where it came from. And ideally you shouldn't have to make the final payment before this time!

Just be careful, because not everyone can be trusted. (Sad, but true)

I too have found dogs successfully on Puppyfind, and now we are listing our first litter there. We are suggesting that people come and spend time with the puppies here in Maine, and most buyers have. As to why we use Puppyfind, Maine is far off the beaten path, and we don't show our dogs or run in professional breeders' circles. So having a place to list them is a good service.

please don't condemn everyone who uses Puppyfind. It's just a listing.

Really?

Imagine you walked into a store, let's call it "toyfind", and found all sorts of broken merchandise sitting on the shelves, some with broken parts and pieces, others recalled for lead paint, some manufactured by 8 year olds in forced labor sweat shops. When told about the problems, the store manager shrugs her shoulders and walks away from you. You glance out the window and see that protesters have gathered in front of the store, all carrying signs with pictures of toys that have broken their children's hearts and cost them a fortune in repair bills.

Would you be inclined to purchase anything from toyfind?
What would you think of a manufacturer who continued to sell to toyfind?
Would you expect good customer service and a quality product from that manufacturer?

You are associating yourself with the worst of the worst because why, it is easier and perhaps less expensive than other approaches? If this is how you awant to be seen, then that's the way to go.

Good luck to you.

I am sorry to hear that there are people out there that are screwing it up for the incosent poeple like me that are just trying to sell their puppies, and do so through a site like puppy find. I have bought breeding dogs through puppy find and have had good results in doing so. All were the puppies (now) dogs that I imagined they would be after giving the person the 3rd degree, I asked so many questions, breeding, I want to see pedigree's and if they do not email me anything of that sort I do not even persue it any futher. I sell puppies on puppy find and everyone that has purchased a puppy from me has gotten the puppy they wanted and picked and hoped for. That is just terrible that someone could do such a thing, like try and sell you the wrong puppy. I also have my own website for my puppies as well, along with comments from people that have purchased puppies from me in the past, and I think that is important to. I also have ALL my puppies vet examined to make sure there are no defects of any sort, which is a must in my books, I want to know the vets name when purchsing any dog/puppy and a phone number so I can call him/her as well. I guess my point is there are reputable breeders out there on these sights that will sell you a nice pup/or dog the one you want and it is a shame there are people out there messing it up for us!

Did you read the post directly above yours?

I have used Puppyfind to start a hobby kennel to raise quality toy aus tralian shepherds. Since this is an unusual breed, the only way to find good quality is to search across the country for the best breeders. Puppyfind and others like it provide a great service as advertisers to put sellers and buyers together. Unfortunately, bad people and frauds can just as easily use any form of advertising to scam people. I think what happened to some of you is just HORRIBLE. However, Puppyfind is just a classified advertising company, not a policing entity. If you bought a lemon car in your town from a scam artisit, is it your newspaper's fault? I don't know how we can protect ourselves, as the buyers. When you can even go the the kennel or house to see the puppy first, and still get scammed, it seems there is no real protection against crooks (or Puppy mills, which fall in the same category). I'm glad some folks are contacting D.A.s and trying to get the bad guys kicked off advertising lists, but how can the advertiser mediate, and know which side of the story is true? The advice given is true, about getting pedigrees, asking lots of questions, and getting testimonies from other buyers.

ponylady wrote:

I have used Puppyfind to start a hobby kennel to raise quality toy aus tralian shepherds.

There is no such breed. Welcome to the status of backyard breeders.

Apparently there is such a breed, or, at least, there are people trying to establish the various size differences as breeds (Toy and Miniature as variants on the regular size). Not recognized as yet, that I could find, but that doesn't mean they're not a breed.

Toy Australian Shepherd Association of America

I had a miniature australian shepherd here for herding classes several years ago. It truly seemed to be a small version of the original. It herded and everything.

The miniature Aussie has been around for a while, and is an established breed.

The "Toy" is just a sales pitch to sell under-sized mini's. They take the mini's and breed the smaller ones, and then breed those ones..etc..Just like the "Toy Yorkies" or the "Mini Shelties", or "Teacup anything".... They just inherit the size genes and all the health problems that go with them.

And there will be a Club, just like the Doodle Clubs and the like that same-minded folks create. There are even Cock-a-poo Clubs...Doesn't make it a breed, or even a good idea.

There has not been nearly enough time to create a toy version of the aussie. It is another gimmick, and they will breed and then die in the puppy mills....Filling the pet stores with another designer breed.

And as outlined above, you can buy your breeding stock on PuppyFind! Yeah!!! :evil:

Hi
I Know how you all Fell about puppyfind,I been looking for a female japanese Chin and i dought i found one she was ver sweet Looking,she was on Puppyfind there was aWoman named Maureen Ingelsby I E Mailed her she respondet and toll me she was not the Ohner she was helping a Friend out That is in Ikeja Nigeria and he was a Rev Prist and had a Puppy that he had no time to take care of the dog becouse he was always on the go,and that he was looking for a Christion Famlie to take care of the dog.And the Rev Prist sayd he name was Chris,The Ad said 300 Dollars Including Shiping i dought that was a good deal for that dog,so I Emailed him we talked on the Phone and i dought everything was OK.
I send the 300 Dollars Wesern Union he said I woud have the Dog 5.30 the next Day witch was Freiday,Then aShiping company E Mailed me saying that the dog is beeing send international and they need 400 more Dollars to ship the dog true Costums and they was holding the Dog untill I send the Money so I felt litlel funny than I called the Rev Chris he said he did not know anything about that they needet 400 more dollars to ship the Dog true Costums.And he tells be to go ahead and Pay it so I can get the Dog,so I send it but I send it this time with a MoneyGram the rev Chris calls me and said he did not get the Money and for me to get it back and resendet Weston Union by then I fellt werry Funny and my husband to,so I picked up my 400 Dollars and told my Husband I was not going true all this, this is just to much. I whent on line checked some stuff and found out that this Rev Chris was listed as a froud, he called my House and my Husband was Reading to him about what we found out about him and he hung up the Phone in my Husbands Face.Thats when we knew for shure that he is a Froud, the Reason why he did not get the 400 Dollars was becouse MoneyGram only works in the USA,I did not know that so I got my 400 Dollars back but I lost the 300 Dollars. It is a shame that this Man posses as a man of God, and what he is doing is Looking for Easy scams like Christion PP that is bad.So everybody bee very carefull

Well just to through my two sense in... Buyer Be Ware! RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH!!!!There are some reputable breeders on puppyfind I am sure. They are really bad breeders whose only concern is $$$$. If you want a pure breed dog GO TO AKC website and find a breeder who is listed there. If you cant afford a puppy from one of these breeders then you most likely cant afford to have one of the dogs. If you insist on getting a puppy from puppyfind then do A LOT OF RESEARCH. If the breeder has multiple litters STAY AWAY. If you cant wait an extra month or longer (to find a reputable breeder) if need be that is your own fault. If the breeder is very persistent about selling then that should throw up a red flag to stay away. If the breeder says I will have another litter soon STAY WAY.

by reputable breeder on puppy find I meant ones that are not out running a scam. Just buy from AKC registered breeders period!!!!!!!!

Oh and by they way the toy aussie HOBBY breeder. Breeding is not a hobby!

shon wrote:

by reputable breeder on puppy find I meant ones that are not out running a scam. Just buy from AKC registered breeders period!!!!!!!!

Being a AKC registered breeder means nothing except that they sent their money in to register a dog/litter.

In the US, buying from and OESCA (Breed club of Old English Sheepdogs) breeder means that there are certain checks and balances in place to ensure that the breeder is breeding for the welfare of the breed. Certainly there are still some breeders better than others in that pool, but OESCA will suspend members if they are up to unscrupulous behavior.

For every breed of recognized AKC dogs in the US, there is a parent breed club. Most of these breed clubs make recommendations on where to buy a puppy from an ethical breeder. This IMO, is the only way to go when buying a pure bred puppy.

shon wrote:

Oh and by they way the toy aussie HOBBY breeder. Breeding is not a hobby!

Just a correction here too, a lot of dog fanciers see themselves as a hobby breeders. As they do it for the love of the breed, not solely for financial gain, as a lot of commercial breeders. We've had discussions on the forum here before about the costs of buying a dog, showing to its championship, grooming, health testing and preventative care, etc. for people to see that the true dog fanciers are lucky if they break even with the money they've spent on a dog just to get it to a point where they feel confident enough to breed.

Jusy my 2 cents never do western union.... no way to get money back.

Here's another 2 cents....when you see "Nigeria" in any ad or email...just delete and move on! :roll:

With regards to earlier post this a.m. was in a hurry and meant a club such as OESCA. Where they do have standards that breeders have to abide by sorry for any confusion in that matter. As for the breeding as a hobby, I still think it would be considered backyard breeding. I should have said leave the breeding to the professionals. Again sorry for any confusion on this subject.

I don't understand all this crying and complaining on this site. If I walk on to a Lexus dealer expecting to pay a Ford price one of two things will happen to me, either I will get a piece of crap Lexus that was previously in a wreck or something or they will tell me to get off their lot.
Nothing in life is free folks, and that includes pets!!! ANY ADS ON PUPPYFIND FOR 300-400 WITH SHIPPING INCLUDED IS A SCAM, ANYBODY WITH COMMON SENSE KNOWS THAT A DOG THAT MARKETS AT 1500-2000 IS NOT GOING TO BE 300 W SHIPPING. And if you are dumb enough to fall for that, shame on you! Stop blaming the world, quit being so cheap and go to a reputable breeder and pay a little bit more money to get what you want. Everybody all way wants something for nothing & then crys when it wasn't such a good deal after all. They scam so much because they cheap idiots are always feeding into it thinking they are getting such a "great" deal. I paid good money for my Bulldogs & I am very happy with what I got! I did research and I FOUND MY BREEDER OFF OF PUPPYFIND!

[you got scammed because you were to cheap to go to a reputable breeder and pay a little more for what you wanted and now you end up with nothing. You are an adult, you should have done your research and shame on you. stop blaming the world for your mistake!]

honeybfly003 wrote:

Common sense guest-just curious, are you a breeder who uses puppyfind? You seem so angry that someone would have anything negative to say about their experience, just wondering.

sounds a little cranky...the day before xmas. So MERRY XMAS and have a great day. Glad your pup is great. Anything over the net is a gamble, its just harder when it is a live animal.

I am so sorry that there has been so much problem with some of the puppyfind breeders. However Not all uof us are like that. I found a beautiful Bloodhound from a vet in Florida, and had her shipped to virginia, The flight tramatized the 3 month old puppy. It wasn't anything the sender failed to do. We have also sold 5 bloodhound puppies thru puppyfind and we don't sell to anyone. We quiz you and you have to fill out a pre application. We love our dogs so much we are willing to keep them all instead of selling to anyone not good enough for our puppies. Get to know your breeder. Get advice from your vet.
Mona

I don't know bloodhounds, but I'm wondering if you love your dogs enough that you perform ALL of the Breed Club's recommended health checks on the parents before you breed them? Are they checked for all of their identifyable genetic issues?

Do you love them enough to breed only the best representatives of your breed, as decided by an objective third party? (I'm asking if you show your dogs and only breed champions.)

Boy, does this all sound familiar to me!! :roll:

Nobody wants to admit their faults, especially in public, but here I go. :oops:

I am not inviting a riot on me, please be kind. I only want to explain myself a little.

I have been there done that! I practiced BYB for a summer. 15 puppies, 2 litters. I really thought I was doing a wonderful thing, at the time....I lost sleep, comfort, money, and time taking care of all the dogs and puppies that I loved. I didnt make any money. I did what I did completely out of LOVE!!! I had to take care of the puppies and their mother like they were my own newborns. Around the clock.

This is what happened with me as best as I can describe it in a short forum.....

Daphne became preg at 9 months. :roll:

I had been taking, what I thought was every precaution. I was screaming on the phone with the vet while they were locked. I can attest it only takes 5 seconds for it to happen. Sure I had hoped to breed in the future, but I didn't mean for it to happen the way it did. This time.

Then 2 months later, my dad insisted I allow Frankie to impregnate his slightly older Rosy. Rosy was 23 months old at the time she became preg...I couldn't say no to my dad.
I took care of those puppies too.
I took very good care of all the puppies, that wasn't my problem. I was so wrong to assume anybody could do this. Breed, I mean.

Like any good breeder.... I'm so ashamed.... I "reinvested back in my "breeding stock" after the fact and had Xrays taken for OFA preliminary certification against hip dysplasia" for Frank and Daphne. Without any medical traning I could see Daphne's hip X-RAYs were "not right", her hips were diagnosed then and there as dysplastic. Less than a year old. I sobbed at the vets office.

It hit me right then what I had really done. I could have several more puppies or future dogs suffering with who knows what due to my "love of the breed".

I am so sorry. I feel very responsible. I can't take it back.

Believe it or not I have maintained very good relationships with the people I sold puppies to. Some know about the xray diagnosis some dont. I have not been completly honest with every new puppy owner with information I recieved after the puppies left my care, and still don't know how to handle that...advice welcome.
Daphne has shown no signs of any dysplasia. But neither Frank or Daphne are OES standard I know with my untrained eye. I know that now.

I am ashamed of myself. I was so wrong.
But I really do love OES and I am willing to keep on keepin on, even through embarassment. To find my perfect place in the OES world through research and training with a mentor or mentors. Whether it's future breeding, showing, training, grooming or rescue, or just sharing a porch with a wonderful dog. I want to be there with my dream dog.
I do not want to ever be a BYB again.

well i have had a bad experience as well and i have neverhad this sort of trouble before. i bought a puppy from nancy toth at mypretty pets.com she advertises through puppyfind as well and my bad reviews were removed as well.. and i have done alot of homework since then.. i got a sick puppy that thankfully to the tune of several hundred dollars is going to be ok... but since then i have thought hard and learned somethings.. they say dont go to a pet store or the news paper or online to buy a puppy... well where does that leave you??? the shelters here are full of pit bulls and that isnt what i wanted i wanted a companion for my minpin who had a great breeder and my family.. i wanted a small dog.. there were no rescues close to us as well so i made a mistake and yes I made a mistake she did alot worng to but i didnt do enough homework i admit that .. but my goal is now to educate.. If you are looking for a puppy call your state dept of agriculture first and see what the LAWS in your state are.. in NYS if a breeder breeds and sells on there premises and they have over 25 pups a year they need to be licenced and inspected by the STATE and you can see if they have a licence to do business in that state in NY dogs are tangable property and sales tax should be charged. Look into laws in NYS article 35D the sale of dogs and cats will tell you what they MUSt by LAW give you when getting the animal . ask to talk to the dogs vet. My puppy came with a heatlth record but not from a vet she went tothe local tractor supply place and got the vaccines(and yes this disturbs me )and gave them herself and its legal for her to buy parvo and distemper this way in nys and she wormed them herself. we found this out after we had to take the dog to the vet at her direct discouragment because of a bacterial infection and a bad case of tapeworms. this is a violation of law in this state. ask for references from people that she sold puppies too. See if she has a record in her county for animal abuse . see if her dogs are licenced if you have too. and if you have a problem and get a sick dog or go there and the conditions are deporable turn them in . i turned nancy in tot he dept of agriculture and the spca and the state for sales tax evasion. and they are looking into her seriously. If you get taken look into the laws and go after them she didnt give mme the dogs reg papers and if i by law dont get them in 1290 days then the attny general will go after her for 75 percent of the money . never pay in cash if you can avoid it if they are demanding cash and dont want to give you a recipt something is fishy. I would only pay in a traceable way. there are breeding laws in most states and DONT be BULLYED!! she tried to bully me after the fact and i wouldnt take it. I have been told that i will probably have to appear in court againt her on her criminal charges and i said that i would go . why to stop this from happening to someone else. WE ALL make mistakes in this life I made mine but i can try to prevent it from happening to someone else this woman has 4 litters due next month. I hope that they seize her dogs. I am going to lobby against the sale of vaccines with needles at tractor supply and junkie can get a needle easy that way as well and that also isnt right. I love my shih tzu and i am glad that she is ok but i want this woman stopped instead of beating each other up we can try to stop some of this. there are online complaint forms all over the net the ushumane society gave me alot of help. please dont buy from myprettypets.com thanks

I just saw on puppyfind that the lady who sold me my puppy is selling another litter...from the same Mom! The mama dog just had my puppy in August (she had 10) and now she gave birth to 11 more in January.

Doesn't that seem a little too quick?

From what I've read, that's too soon. The breeder did not allow the bitch enough time to recover from the August litter. They say bitches shouldn't be breed two consecutive seasons... it should be a red flag that the breeder hasn't put the best interest of her OES first and money alone may be the main incentive.

Some interesting info on how to determine if a breeder is ethical/reputable...

What Makes a Breeder "Responsible?
http://www.iupui.edu/~ihls400/responsible_breeder.html

What is a Backyard Breeder?
http://home.comcast.net/~NoPuppyMillsVA ... eder_.html

Recognizing An Unethical Breeder
http://www.phouka.com/puppy/bdr_irres.html

From the HSUS
http://www.hsus.org/web-files/PDF/Good_breeder.pdf

for those who read my post ... it looks like the breeder i delt with is going to be taken off to jail for several felonies including welfare fraud and tax ivasion and theft of sales tax and more this is aside from the animal cruelty charges... when the ag dept contacted her she told them she had 12 breeding dogs so she is also in trouble with them/... So you can make a difference if you do the research and turn ppl in to the proper authorities. one person can make a difference. my dog is better but i feel better knowing that i am stopping her from doing this to countless other dogs and ppl ...

Good for you for following through and making sure she is not able to defraud others or continue hurting animals. Valueable lessons learned here. Hopefully others will read this and learn BEFORE making their own mistakes.

I think it's unfair to blast the site and all who use it based on one or two bad people. My nephew sold his pugs using PuppyFind.com and never had any problems. L. Palmer

If people have anything bad or good to say, they will... human nature( word of mouth, can make it or break it)

Because I was curious I just went to puppyfind where there are currently 154 OES for sale. I randomly chose a breeder, she has 8 littermates for sale. Six of the 8 are $900 each, price negotiable on several. Two are $1500 each. She clearly states the sire and dam are not from champion bloodlines but all the puppies have show potential

. Hmmm, what could that be based on? As was stated in previous posts the point of showing your dog to it's championship is to help gauge the quality of your dog against the breed standard. The sire has AKC papers, the dam has CKC and her AKC papers were lost or never sent in. As for CKC I would venture to guess it's not the Canadian Kennel Club. Sure, the puppies were adorable but what puppies aren't, especially OES. Cute as the pictures were I would not feel compelled to make a purchase from this breeder. If you were willing to pay $1500 for a puppy why on earth wouldn't you get one from a reputable breeder for a few hundred more, and one with a good pedigree as well?

Len Palmer wrote:

I think it's unfair to blast the site and all who use it based on one or two bad people. My nephew sold his pugs using PuppyFind.com and never had any problems. L. Palmer

Len, is your nephew a reputable breeder? Is he breeding to Pug standards to maintain the integrity of the breed?

If not, then you are missing the point. Your nephew may be a great guy, but unless he's breeding to honor and improve Pug's (not just in it for a buck), he's part of the problem.

Hi

I am breeder of OES and Shih tzu in Brazil.
I insert my ads in puppyfind because I dont know other website here to sell puppies.
Here I receive the money for transference in account in my bank. I sell my dogs for $1500 _ $2500 more the price of the shipping. I not understand a breeder sell puppies of OES for $300.
I sold a puppie to Amber Dupond that is breeder of OES in Canada.
I see that have many scammer in puppyfind. In last year many breeders copy my pictures and sell the puppies in puppyfind for small price.
Sincerely
Rosana Knapp
http://www.knappkennel.com

Quote:

She clearly states the sire and dam are not from champion bloodlines but all the puppies have show potential

Well, you could potentially show any pure bred puppy, right?????

I understand the frustration. I also understand the ignorance.

Rosana,

I have one of your pup's sons. We know you have nice dogs...a lot of breeders on puppyfind don't. The bad people make it bad for everyone.

Amber makes sure we all know you are not that kind of breeder. Chicus's son is the smaller one in my Avatar.

Too bad everyone on puppyfind isn't like you.

Hi Wendy

I know that have bad peoples in puppyfind. Here also have bad breeders. I am think in insert my ads in others website, too.
Thanks
Rosana

Sorry, because my english not is good.

I hope everyone does not get angry with me.....but I have bought from puppyfind before. I have to say....that one woman did not give me what I expected. But I DO feel it was my fault. Yes I think she is a scam and a nut case! But my mistake was not following thru on my normal process.

I ALWAYS ask for reference that I can talk to. I also call other breeders from puppy find that seem to have very good web sites. I ask questions about the others and ask what their impressions are of the people. Also..I ask to speak to their vets. I like to use their vets as a reference, sometimes I even talk to the person who answers the phone at vets if they know of the client and what their thoughts are on the past puppies they have brought in. I ask how many times and what kind of puppies do they have. I ask the Vets condition of the puppies that they bring in...and do they come in on regular schedule with adult dogs. I like to talk to the vet as they have my puppy on their table for the flight physical.

I do not like to buy from people that sell multiple breeds. If they sell only 1 or 2 breeds then I will consider them. If I call and ask questions I want to be able to sit and talk to them. If they rush me off or try and pressure me that someone else is interested I move on. I am very slow at my decision. It is a 15 year commitment. I have lost many of puppies... I take the attitude that it was not meant to be. I DO NOT ever call back if someone tells me that they are selling the dog for a friend or someone else.

There are so manyu scams in life today....that we have to learn to trust our gut feelings....and do not let anyone pressure you into something. Take your time and ask for ref.

Good Luck to All!

I bought a tiny toy red poodle from puppyfind and have listed my puppies well. Although I didn't sell any of my puppies from puppyfind, I sold them locally instead. I have been more than happy with my poodle. He has excellent pedigree, has been exactly as described from the breeder and a wonderful adition to my home. I picked him up from the breeder in Florida, although I live in South Dakota. The breeder was very good about keeping me updated with Bruno's progress until I was able to get there. I hope anyone looking for a toy poodle will give me a chance to prove I am a reputable breeder.

Elaine

HI my name is Joe Kline owner of KLINESENGLISHBULLDOGS.I have had 3-timers been Scammed.Buy buyers also on Puppyfind and complained. Gave the last womens name and e-mail and they want on&on from me the seller and a long time one at that .Ifeel sorry truly for anyone having this done ,I have lost,3 pups to them along with my Website being stolen,Money from my savings in amount of thousands,Yes truly that much Ias a breeder,trying to make it have a hard time with and indivials,saying Kept it till Icome and it never happens.Ito feel for us that are trying like hell to be as honest with the buyeras possible.And I always give the buyer past buyers numbers to ask about me,my pups.If a breeder wont do that at least 2-people dont buy from them. my you all get you revenage ...Joe[/b]

Its really sad to see all the complaints on the scam that is on the net, and yet its good to warn folks about it, but I think its giving a bad rap to the good breeders as well. Pets are not the only scam on the net, there is scam all over the net in different dealings, not just puppies...so...you just have to use COMMON SENSE ! usually a bad breeder will give several red flags, that most people would catch on to and walk away from them....but for those of you that DON'T and choose to be suckered in, then its YOUR fault, and you have helped to make a story that creates insecurity in dealing even with the good honest breeders out there....so get references....follow the steps that you would ordinarily follow in any business deal, and then you are less likely to get scammed. You just can't let your heart over rule your head, and thats HOW some of these scams work, they play on your emotions....who can hardly resist a cute little puppy, especially when you hold it...thats where they get cha!..USE YOUR HEAD AND STAY AWAY FROM PUPPY MILLS AND PET SHOPS TO BEGIN WITH...go to a nice reputable breeder AFTER you check out their references...if they provide no references...whether it be on the net or otherwise, then to hell with em!, don't waste your time, money and gas...go to the next one on your list!

I am just saying that the good breeders do not deserve the rap that they are also getting caused by folks that let themselves be scammed.

I too am a breeder, but one with a good reputation that gives many references and I encourage our potiential puppy families to check us out....we limit our breedings, and enjoy the heck out of our furry children, and they go to the Childrens' hospitals as well as the nursing homes for pet therapy....and it just urks me to no end to see the puppy scams on the net, but there are also red flags all over when you see them, so use your head and watch for the red flags. But when the many folks fall for the scams, then it hurts us all.

We welcome folks into our home to see the pups, the parents and the environment, if your breeder can not do this, then there is something wrong with the picture.

I too deal with breeders all the time, and when I ask them for references and they change the subject, I hang up and move on!

thanks for listening....Carol Kienlen.... www.cainrsrus.com

I recently wired $300 for a puppy for shipping. When I got home there was an email waiting asking for another $550 for flight insurnce. The man will not give me flight or insurance information. He has now cut off all contact. Several days later the pic of the same pup showed up under Patch Wood Farms-a different person. I emailed puppyfind and Patch Wood Farm The pic was taken off but is now listed again under Sue Lopez-only she has changed her location from PA to NY. Why will no one stop these people from continuing their scam especially once they (puppyfind) are alerted???

Have you gotten your money back? If not, send another email to Puppyfind to tell them what's occurred, explain how this pup has been listed and relisted, the flight insurance fee (wow,

... I've had 5 flown to me and no breeder has ever requested we pay flight insurance on top of the flight fee), and that communication with the seller has stopped.

Consider filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau... it may help someone else from going through this same experience.

If you don't receive a full refund in a reasonable amount of time, look into filing a case in small claims court.

Finally, try to locate a reputable breeder by going through a national club. See if they've signed a code of ethics agreement and ask lots of questions.
Good luck to you!

Last year I wrote about puppyfind and this year I will say the same thing again.
I think puppy find is like any other other advertisement, including the News Paper. I am a small breeder. I do advertise on puppyfind my Italian Greyhound pups. All my pups have MWT/ in front of their names, not I.G. #264, ect... In my adds I tell people to check my (veiw all listings ). If someone has multable breeds of dogs or 5 maybe 6 litters at one time with differant ages, YOU WILL SEE IT. I also ask for referances & give them too. I don't mind if people talk to other people that have gotten my pups in the past. I must be very careful of puppy mills also, so my babies don't end up being bred to death in a bad place, under terrible conditions. I have a pet contract too, that buyer and seller must both agree to. This protects the puppies & is good for everyone. Please be careful. It is not puppyfinds falt if there are bad breeders, but I do think if there are alot of complants, puppyfind should STOP letting that person advertise. I am one of the good breeders!!!!!!!!!! MWT

In my honest opinion there are more buyer's who are scamming breeders than the other way around. Sending couterfeit cashiers checks, getting a puppy then reversing the charges, sending checks that bounce.. There too are puppy mill people who try to scam good breeders so they can get ahold of their good breed stock under ficticious names.. it's the buyer and seller Beware. My advice to everyone is think twice before you start slandering people, it is also a litigious world. I am a believer that a puppy buyer, who does not travel to get their puppy in person, has no-one to blame but themselves.

I HAVE TO SAY THE IGNORANGE OF PEOPLE BUYING A DOG NEVER AMAZES ME ANYMORE :roll:

. THERE ARE PUPPYMILLS EVERYWHERE AND THEY ADVERTISE IN ALMOST ALL PUBLIC FORUMS, BUT NOT ALL BREEDERS ON PUPPYFIND ARE PUPPYMILLERS OR EVEN BAD BREEDERS...AS A MATTER OF FACT, I HAVE FOUND MANY OF MY OWN BEAUTIFUL HEALTHY PUPPIES FOR MY SMALL HOBBY KENNEL THERE. THE LAST ADULT MALE I PURCHASED FOR BREEDING, EVEN CAME WITH CERTS FOR CARDIO, PATELLAS AND THYRIOD!!! IF YOU DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND KNOW WHAT YOUR LOOKING FOR YOU CAN FIND SOME GREAT BREEDERS AND SOME NICE DOGS OUT THERE! EVEN SOME SHOW BREEDERS ARE ON THERE! YOU JUST HAVE TO READ ABOUT THEIR DOGS AND LOOK AT WEBSITE AND KNOW WHAT YOUR LOOKING FOR!
I HAD ONE VERY BAD EXPERIENCE GETTING A SICK PUPPY FROM A SUPPOSED VERY REPUTABLE BREEDER NAMED CINDY LOWE OF PIECE OF EDNE POMERANIANS OFF PUPPYFIND BUT I DONT BLAME PUPPYFIND.......... I BLAME HER!!!!!!! IT IS HER TERRIBLE ETHICS AND LACK OF MORAL FIBER THAT I AM ANGRY WITH, PUPPYFIND HAS NO CONTROL OVER HER. THE DOG I GOT WAS SICK WITHIN 48 HRS OF ARRIVING AT MY HOME AND SOME OF MY DOGS GOT SICK SUBSEQUENTLY. OVER 3000 IN VET BILLS BUT I DONT BLAME PUPPYFIND. I BLAME HER FOR BEING UNETHICAL. I HAVE ALL THE VET BILL AND EMAILS TO PROVE THIS ALSO. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PUPPYFIND BUT EVERYTHING TO DO WITH AN UNETHICAL IMMORAL BREEDER IMO! I MEAN THINK ABOUT IT, IF HER STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL WONT DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS WHAT DO YOU EXPECT PUPPYFIND TO DO?
BUT THEN AGAIN, I MYSELF ADVERTISE ON PUPPYFIND AND I HAVE HAD SOME OF THE NICEST COMPLIMENTS FROM MY CLIENTS AS TO HOW MY DOGS LIVE IN MY HOME AND I HAVE ALSO HAD MANY PHONE CALLS FROM VETS THAT WERE PLEASED WITH THE QUALITY AND THE HEALTH OF THE PUPPIES PEOPLE HAVE PURCHASED FROM ME. YA KNOW ANYONE CAN ADVERTISE JUNK ON EBAY BUT NO ONE BLAMES EBAY FOR THAT THERE ARE SCAMMERS EVERYWHERE AND YOU JUSTY HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL WHOM YOU BUY FROM DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND LEARN HOW TO FIND A GOOD BREEDER BEFORE YOU EVEN GO INTO THE MARKET TO PURCHASE A PUPPY.
THINGS TO LOOK FOR WHEN BUYING A PUPPY, BUY WITH IN YOUR OWN STATE SO YOU CAN GO SEE THE BREEDERS HOME AND DOGS. MAKE AN APPOINTMENT, GIVE YOURSELF A LITTLE TIME TO THINK IT OVER, A PUPPY IS A HUGE RESPONSIBILITY FINANCIALLY AND EMOTIONALLY.
IF WHEN YOU GET THERE, THEY WONT LET YOU IN ... OR WANT TO MEET YOU SOMEWHERE (OTHER THAN A VETS OFFICE) TO MAKE THE SALE, DONT DO IT, RUN RUN LIKE HELLOOOOO, FIND ANOTHER BREEDER THAT IS MORE THAN HAPPY TO SHOW YOU WHAT THEY HAVE AND HOW THEIR KENNEL IS SET UP, HOW THEIR DOGS LIVE WHO THEIR VET IS A COUPLE REFERENCES AND PEDIGREES ON MOST IF NOT ALL OF HEIR DOGS. . AND REMEMBER IF IT SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE........ ITS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE. BE SURE TO MEET MOM N DAD IF POSSIBLE SO YOU CAN SEE SIZE,TEMPERAMENT AND QUALITY OF WHAT YOUR GETTING ALSO!
ME PERSONALLY, I AM MORE THAN HAPPY TO SHOW YOU AROUND AND HAVE YOU SEE ALL MY FUR KIDS, I AM PROUD OF MY DOGS AND MY HOME!
JUST A LIL FYI TO ALL THE PEOPLE OUT THERE LOOKING FOR THE EVER ILLUSIVE TEACUP IN WHATEVER BREED, THEY DO NOT EXIST, THERE IS NO AKC BREED REGISTRY THAT RECOGNIZES TEACUP AS A SIZE, AND AS A BREEDER IF THE PUPPY IS SO TINY THAT THEY CALL IT A TEACUP, IT PROBABLY HAS SOME KIND OF HEALTH ISSUE THAT PREVENTS IT FROM GROWING SO DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND DON'T GO LOOKING FOR A TEACUP! TEACUPS IS ONE OF THE WORDS SCAMMERS UE TO HOOK YOU IN.
BEWARE OF SCAMMERS ON THE BUYERS END AND NO ONE HAS A RICH UNCLE IN NIGERIA THAT HAS LEFT THEM 50 GOZILLION DOLLARS AND IS JUST NOW FINDING OUT ABOUT HIM LOL DONT BE A SAP DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND GOOD LUCK OUT THERE!

HAVE A BEAUTIFUL DAY LISA WILSON
[link removed]

Hello all,
I'm a basset hound breeder, and use puppyfind. Not all of us who use the site are puppy mills, or scammers. I take a lot of pride in my adult dogs, and the puppies they have. I spend a LOT of time with my pups. They are raised inside my house, allowed to be in an exercise pen outdoors if the weather permits, are vet-checked, and shots are even given at the vet office, rather than me giving them. I e-mail updated pictures to the buyers frequently, and stay in contact with them frequently. If any issue is noted at the vet-check, I ensure the buyer knows exactly what the issue is. I even give discounts if there is a defect in the puppy, which I've only had to do a couple of times.
I do understand that there are issues with some of the folks that post puppies. I've been scammed too. One thing I've noticed about the ads is that if shipping is included in a very reasonable price--it's probably a scam. That was my experience.
Puppyfind does have the article that explains what a buyer should look for when buying a puppy.

I have purchased two puppies from different breeders on puppyfind.com and today I am looking for another. I have two Soft Coated Wheaten Terriers that I purchased from this website. Both have in great health. Were the breeders of the puppy breeding many puppies? Yes. I have given a health guarantee on my first puppy...who is going strong...and the second puppy I had no health guarantee because the breeder did not want to sell me the puppy. I purchased a smaller than normal male puppy...at my request...I asked the breeder from the start if she had a male that was smaller than normal...she said she did....we communicated about this puppy for weeks....on Connors vet check done by the breeder he weighed 3 pounds..his litter mates all girls were over 5 pounds....the breeder offered me another puppy...a female and said she would give Connor to me but I did not want to have 3 dogs at the time...I declined the offer and bought Connor for half the asking price with no health guarantee...I knew what I was getting.....Connor is now approaching three years of age....has had no health issues....he now weighs 30? pounds...is he smaller than the breed standard for Soft Coated Wheaten Terriers...yes..Males should be about 19inches tall and about 40 pounds. I have no desire to breed SCWT....I love the breed and offer a great home to my dogs....Mickey only wieghs 23 pounds and is about 15-16 inches tall. Very smalll for a male...both of my boyz are neutered and see the vet every 6 months....they have been tested for the protein wasting kidney disease that this breed can suffer from and have had their teeth cleaned...Please folks talk to the breeder...find out what you are purchasing...and do not assume that all of the breeders on this site are bad.....many are people who like certain breeds and produce puppies that some of us have a difficult finding otherwise....when I am ready to purchase a puppy....a "reputable breeder" as many of you refer to them as...may not have puppies at the time...or they are asking way more than I can afford to pay....I know about causes...I support many myself...but do not brush everyone who advertises on a particular website with the same paint brush....

I guess I should have read some of the post....my first purchase was for a puppy to be shipped and the cost of shipping was included....the puppy arrived on time at the airport I requested he be sent to.. That was my first puppyfind.com purchase and I was very pleased with my puppy...again...no worries...read the reviews....I too write them for the breeders that I get puppies from....the site itself is not bad....there are just people doing bad things everywhere...I breed horses and the two websites that I use have the same issues...bad people figure out how to use legitimate sites for ill gotten gain....not everyone on the site is to be purnished for the things a few people do...thanks for reading my two posts.

I don't know when these posts were made but you have just saved me from making a big mistake. I received a prompt reply from the breeder I contacted last night about an older Miniature Schnauzer puppy that was what I was looking for. Incredibly inexpensive and hard to pass up. I have sold older puppies inexpensively myself when I had sold the rest of a litter and was just not getting any more calls. I did look up the woman's website but she sold a totally different kind of breed and that her friend was selling the Schnauzers, she was just listing them. I did wonder what was wrong with the Schnauzer breeder than she couldn't advertise them herself. I also came across other Schnauzers of varying ages from the same poster, one saying about a 2-yr old that she was going into show dogs and these were pet quality. I'm not into showing so that didn't bother me. The website I had logged onto did give the Schnauzer breeder's name and a link to the Schnauzers. Maybe I equated a fancy website with photographs with an honest breeder?

I knew all about the Nigerian scams regarding buying puppies and I know how to spot them right away. But the first call of received on my puppies (a local free classified board) the lady told me about the scams that were being perpetrated by sellers. This was the first time I heard about this. But I really need to bring in a new bloodline so I went looking online. Just as someone said here, some of us just naturally think the best about people. I was really considering buying that older puppy but at the moment I have no transportation. Still, I told my husband about her and he told me to send a check so she could be held until we get up and running next week. I request a nonrefundable deposit to hold a puppy, too. I've gotten stuck with puppies until calls stopped coming and that's when I had to drop prices. I didn't think anything of that and was just about to do it when, trying to find the puppyfind ad so I could read it again, I started seeing all these sites talking about puppyfind being a scam. This is the one I clicked on and I'm flabbergasted! Unbelievable!

Now I don't know who to trust. One thing that had me wondering, about the puppyfind site, was the number of breeders taking deposits on puppies that aren't even born yet but I have seen some big name kennels in the area do that on their websites. Now I'd like to know if that is a red flag or these kennels have such a good name that it is an accepted practice.

Did not know those bloody Nigerians are into puppy breeding. I know they scam jobs & the banking system. Seems I am not from the US & been Ill so I read all of these posts (Sad me). God you can tell the fake ones a mile away trying to support this system.
1. Why come to a oesd site
2. Most breeders use there club sites to advertise their pups
3. If the breeders were any good they would of done research about the website as they don't want a bad name
4. Most of the breeders or so called ones don't seem to leave a link about their breed

If you are buy a pup. Make sure the mother is not under 24 months old or old than 7 years. This should be the standard in the OESD

If you have lost money on this site. Put a add in. Do not buy a puppy off this person. I bet they won’t take you to court as they have screwed so many people out there. Also if you post on someone’s website about a bad breeder it will come up in most search engines. Maybe someone should set up a site called don't buy a puppy from this person

My 5 pence worth

Hello,
I will speak directly to whomever is reading this. If you are reading this then you must be considering purchasing a puppy from an internet site. Please do not do this. I realize I am one to say this especially after purchasing our pup from PuppyFinder.com under a week ago. He is great and is vet checked and seemingly healthy. However, this is the current state of affairs and I am finally breathing after a week of agony, worry, and sleepless nights. In researching this, I read tons of information on puppymills and puppyfind and BYB (backyard breeders). The happy endings are few and far between. It is very important not to do this because you are enabling so called breeders to keep doing this without regard for the life of a living creature. They will keep repeating this cycle of "prodution" until we stop them...How?? By not purchasing pups online. Go to a shelter, resuce, or if you must have a puppy go to a registered, reputable breeder. There are too many reports, lists etc to allow this to continue. Do you have a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach about my reference to "production" as if it is a manufacturing plant. Good! Because guess what IT IS A PRODUCTION PLANT with a HUGE cost--a living being.

I agree that Puppyfind.com does not monitor who places ads on their site. I've been scammed through buying off of puppy find. I've seen people who don't actually have puppies list on there and when I inquired, sent me photoshopped pictures with different info. I also bought a puppy from Natalie's Little Yorkie's that had health problems but because my review was past the 2 year mark she could delete the negative review-but is allowed to keep the positive reviews that are older than that! Even with verification that this seller has sold many puppies with health problems, with proof, they still let her list on there.

The warning is this- if you see a cute puppy, google the breeders phone numbers, name, address and the words "complaint" "review" that way you'll see information posted about them on different sites too. Realize if it sounds too good to be true, it is and just because the seller has all positive reviews, it doesn't mean they're a good seller-it could just be that they delete the negatives.

Please be advised that Puppyfind.com is not the person selling you a puppy. Why are so many people blind to see that it's not puppyfinds job to do homework on a kennel or person that you want to purchase from. It is your job to go visit the kennel, go see the parents, call the vet and ask them about the people. It would be like you being upset that your local paper posted in their classified section a couch that you bought. You purchased the couch got it home and found out that the springs were broken. OH NO, It was the papers fault. No you idiots its your fault not the papers fault. I do not work for puppy find but I am a good breeder that advertises there and in their defense you all need to wake up.

Mark

We had a story on the local news about people unknowingly buying puppies from puppy mills and the people on the news were so shocked that the puppy they bought with no research was a scam or not what they had thought they were getting. These people were so angry and wanted to hold somebody accountable, I understand that but nobody is forcing you to buy a puppy.

As somebody who has recently done the puppy search it is SO important to do your homework, it is not anybody's job but yours to find a good breeder. Buying a dog off the Internet without checking out the breeder or their line is not always going to result in tragedy but it could. There are also people who lose big chunks of money sending deposits off without checking things out first.

Even after I did all of the research I still worried, getting a puppy is a decision that shouldn't be made lightly. If you find a good breeder who knows their stuff this should be evident and they should be willing to answer all for your questions (I asked questions for over an hour and a half and was treated with patience and respect by Leonard's breeder, she never pushed me into getting a puppy and ended up asking ME lots questions too). There is tons of information on here and other websites about picking a puppy and a good breeder; puppy find even has a disclaimer about their responsibility or lack there of.

I had contacted several breeders and there were a couple who had avoided certain questions, were dismissive of my concerns and talked more about the price than about their pride in their dogs or their love of the breed. A few didn't have breeding plans and a few had puppies available sooner than the breeder I ended up going with. I am not saying they were bad breeders but I made the choice to keep looking. Ultimately it is the buyer who makes the decision and the buyer who needs to do the research! I may have waited six months longer but I couldn't be happier with the big shaggy mop who is currently using my lap as a pillow.

P.s.
If my family hadn't have had a negative experience buying a dog from a newspaper ad over twenty years ago I likely wouldn't have known how important doing your research is. I don't fault anybody who falls in love with a puppy on a puppy website but I hope that people use the resources on the "getting a puppy" page before making a final decision!!

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