PuppyFind
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| I can't really say more than be VERY VERY careful. I would personally suggest you look elsewhere. Where are you located? Perhaps we can help you find a breeder that someone has experience with and can give you references? Also, have you considered rescue? |
| I would avoid using puppyfind.com as well! You can get a Breeder Referral from Janet Loehr @ loehrja@in-tch.com. You can also try contacting the OES Rescue organizations and ask for a referral to a breeder.
Here's some "Tips on Buying a Puppy" that will provide some good information... http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamer ... nglish.htm Please remember - even after getting a referral - you should research the breeder yourself (internet searches, word of mouth, etc.). Good Luck! Kristen |
| Well, I have found my breeder through that site. This was before i found this forum with all the good advice. However, I had virtually no breeders around my area, so this was sort of the last resort. We lucked out because this breeder is terrific. After reading all the terrible stuff about backyard breeders and puppy mills, i convinced my husband to go and visit them before we give her the rest of the money. It was a TRIP, for we are in NYC and she was in Missouri. But it was worth it. And it put my mind to rest. But, please be careful. I would first contact the AKC and ask for a breeder list in your area. You can also access it online at their site! Goodluck! |
| I would say make sure they are a NEBA member
[Sorry, no SPAM here] |
| Also,
[I'm sure you're well intentioned, but oes.org does not allow links to sites that sell or advertise puppies for sale, and this would fall under that category.] They vet their listings and recognize ethical breeders such as myself. |
| Hi everyone,
I like the idea of contacting parent clubs of breeds you may be interested in wheither looking for pups or rescues. They tend to focus on just that breed and not all breeds that may have very different standards. I would contact: Tarja Peters OESCA Breeder Referral http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamerica.org/ |
Hey Zach, nice to see you  How are Nelson et all? Cute avatar byw. |
| I was answering the question how do you find an ethical breeder. I said make sure they are a NEBA member. [deleted yet again]
HOW IS THAT SPAM??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| If you want an explanation, register and I'll communicate with you through that method, or drop me a line to webmaster@oes.org |
| Right or wrong I found my maltese breeder through puppy find. I received the names of several breeders, all whom I contacted and through e-mails and questions and referrals I narrowed down my choice. I did check references and went with my "gut". I am very happy with my puppy. It certainly could have turned out differently so I am not necessarily pushing sites such as that but I think, as with any purchase, you have to investigate and do your homework. |
| Hey BDx4,
Things are great at this end. Everyone down here is happy and ornary as usual. Also, I found just the perfect homes for all of my pups except for Emily. Some really wonderful folks like many on this forum. It's a terriffic feeling after the shock of "you really have to give some on them up, lols"! It's amazing how hard that is to do and how attached you get to them all!!! With Emily, six is a little tough sometimes but she's been real easy and fits right in. I'm so glad to see people taking the time find breeders that really care. I'm also real proud of Tarja for working so hard for OESCA on referal and OESCA working harder to keep ethics in line with their member referals. It can be a thankless job at times I'm sure and she has put her heart into it as well as many other members and officers we don't hear much about. How's things on your end. Everyone still doing well I hope? Zach ps: Did you see those beautiful OES in Texas with rescue? Several look like they have quite nice breeding and really sweet dispositions. It's hard to believe they can be given up so easily. |
| Tasker's Mom,
Your pic is so so so so cute!!! |
| Thank you!
They are quite a pair! |
| Hey Zach! I think Emily has found a wonderful home. Nelson Jr. sure misses her!!! Think we need to work on a new avatar as well. |
| Hey Maggie,
Thanks! Caught again. Emily and Molly, heck we all miss Nelson and ya'll. Maggie looks great in your avatar. Nelson would probably just screw up the shot lols. |
zach wrote:
Thank you, my friend! For those you who don't know, Janet Loehr was the Breeder Referral for the Old English Sheepdog Club of America for some years before I took over. There's still websites out there who have not updated their BR info yet. But that's ok, Janet has been forwarding inquires to me. Have a sheepie day! |
 .....I am a Breeder of Cairn Terriers that has posted an Ad on PUPPYFIND, I agree there are a lot of what I refer to as puppymills and backyard breeders on that site as with ANY puppy site.We pride ourselves in being good responsible breeders and have many positive testimonials to prove it. As I respond to my puppy seekers..."Whether you get a pup from me or elsewhere, DON'T BE AFRAID TO ASK THAT BREEDER FOR REFERENCES FROM THEIR PREVIOUS HUMAN PUPPY PARENTS, AND IF THEY DO NOT GIVE YOU REFERENCES, RUN DON'T WALK AWAY FROM THAT BREEDER"..... Thank you.......Carol Kienlen. |
| Well said Carol! Thanks for your input! |
| I am very distressed about all the comments about puppyfind. I am a very responsible breeder and am working very hard with several other breeders to create and maintain a standard for the very popular hybrid, the cockapoo. Within the next few years, we will be able to apply for AKC recognition as a breed. Those breeders that I am associated with are not in to puppy mills or designer dogs or in any way irresponsible. I chose to advertise on that site only because I was told it was a popular site. It is very sad to me that people have purchased poor quality pets and both the families and the pets have had to suffer because some idiot is out there promoting their "kennel". My only advice is to check out the person, the kennel, and ask for references. And if you still get taken, then go after them legally and shut them down. It truly takes a disgusting excuse for a human being to run a puppy mill and promote sick animals. Thank you for listening to my side of it. |
| Please know that I am VERY happy with my puppyfind puppy!! He's just what I was looking for and the breeder was the sweetest lady. I was very pleased with my experience.
Unfortunately INTERNET business in genreal lends itself to the sometimes not so honest. You just need to be careful, as with any business transaction, that you aren't buying the proverbial "pig in a poke". There has been some publicity lately about people selling puppies on internet sites such as puppy find, taking money for puppies that don't even exist and skipping town. I know of breeders who have had photos of their dogs pirated from their web sites and used on internet puppy sites. So it's easy to understand why people can be a bit leary. But I believe that if you are an honest person and a good breeder your reputation spread by word of mouth no matter what sales methods you use. So don't be offended of people are cautious. |
| Pepople do need to be cautious, no matter how they find out about wherever they are going to get a pup. People should always ask questions, lots of them. Both the breeder and the buyer. A puppy is a long term commitment, not an impulse buy. It is a living being who is going to be a part of your family hopefully for a long time. |
| I just discoverd that a breeder on puppy find is using my copywrited ad as her own. A Ms. Victoria Jordan in Layton Ok, I certainly wouldn't trust any breeder from site that doesn't control or check on their advertisers.
Tim Hoke Golden Meadows Retrievers |
Sadly the very nature of business on the internet lends itself to allowing dishonest people to proliferate all areas, not just the puppy business. It seems in this world it's so much easier to cheat someone if you aren't doing it face to face  The "used care salemen" (no offense to any used care salemen out there) has been replaced by a much meaner and more dangerous person. It has truly become "buyer beware" when it come to buying any thing on the internet. I tend to stick to "big name" sites or if I am "ebaying" I check carefully the customer feedback.
Tim, I recently participated in a discussion regarding your problem, stolen ads and photos; more and more people are embedding their logos or names right in their photos and ads making it much more difficult for them to be taken and reused. It's a cold cruel world!! |
| HI! You can tell if a breeder is a good breeder if they actually take the time to bring each one of their baby's to the vet. I am a breeder of Chihuahua's and before any of my baby's leave my home they are already vet checked. With a clean bill of health. Not just vet checked, shot's, wormer's. Heart, lung's,eye's, hair, teeth, are all checked. Way too many people do not take their pup's into the vet, They give their own shot's wormer's, I feel myself that if you sell a puppy for 500.00 you can well afford 58.00 for each pup, No matter how many pup's you have!!! I think most breeder's have really lost the meaning of breeding. Let me stress again every pup that leaves my home is in excellent condition. And I stand behind this 100%. Dog's are not to breed outside in cold kennel's. Mine are all raised inside my home like my family.
The best I can tell everyone is make sure your new pup has been checked throughly, By a trained proffesional. I have seen this way too many time's. Most breeder's buy their shot's from local feed dealers. How do you actually know that that shot that was given to your pup was any good at all. When shot's get warm they lose their value. With little or no effect for the poor baby's. THAT MEAN'S NO PROTECTION FOR YOUR BABY. PLEASE BE VERY CAREFUL. Most breeder's give a 24 to 48 hour gaurantee, NOT ENOUGH TIME!!! A good breeder will give a lot more then that. They will stand behind their pup's. I want and every breeder should want a pup to leave my home knowing that I can rest easy at night. |
| I just recently found a beautiful puppy on puppyfind.com and I contacted the seller via e-mail. She told me to western union a money transfer to Oklahoma. The next day westeren union called me and said that the name I sent the money to was part of an internet scam. I sent 1000.00 for a puppy a never received. Then on top of that the lady e-mailed me back and said that OK just passed a law saying that insurance is required when shipping a puppy and now she wants 400.00 more.
I can't believe I fell for the scam, but I am pissed and I want to get this woman!! the name she uses is Lilly Lory - If anyone has info on this - can you please e-mail me. [/b] |
| I am the first to admit that I am OLD and THE BRAIN doesn't work quite as well as it used to......I guess I am MISSING THE POINT......Or MAYBE NOT!!!!!!! Is OES.Org Forum listed on the Puppyfind website??????? This is where you go to post as an guest to defend Puppyfind........and tell a Group of Old English Sheepdog Lovers about what responsible breeders they are??????.......BUT. They are not OES Breeders.....Or Maybe THEY are.....Why defend a website that anyone can sell dogs... Like I said I'm Old and I must have missed the point.....Or MAYBE NOT!!!!!!!!!!! I think I need to go take My Meds~~~~~~~Sheepie Hugs, Kaye |
| I think puppyfind people keep finding our forum because they search for puppyfind and come up with results that include our posts in this thread.... |
| OK, I've taken My Meds now and feel much better.......I thought it was a Left Wing Conspiracy!!!!!! .......I have a rather warped sence of humor.......Sheepie Hugs, Kaye |
 Needless to say I have raised OES in the past. In any case one no matter what kind of puppy you purchase one need's to be very careful. Looking for a good breeder is a pretty tough job these day's. Just letting people know what to look out for, and making them aware of what to look for. I can't, And no other breeder can tell if a puppy is actually healthy. Unless they have a degree in vet school. Could be!!! I just wanted to inform people that unless your puppy is vet checked, they cannot be 100% sure that the puppy being purchased is a healthy puppy. |
| Hey Shug - some of us "left wingers" are some of the most decent people that you would ever want to know...
Oh sorry, I forgot you were from Texas where they wear those tall boots.  |
| Please dont use puppyfind. I just had my money stolen by one of there breeders. and there is not a lot i can do about it but try to help others not make the same mistake that i made. |
| I am very alarmed. I just found my dog listed for sale on puppyfind.com!! This is a total scam. My dog's picture is there under a different name. BEWARE!!!! |
| What name is your dog under?
NancyEss wrote: I am very alarmed. I just found my dog listed for sale on puppyfind.com!! This is a total scam. My dog's picture is there under a different name. BEWARE!!!! |
 How do you know what questions to ask a breeder to find out if they are reputable? I have been looking on puppyfind and now that I have looked over your info. I am WORRIED! I just want a healthy happy puppy.  |
| I was searching today and saw this new site but it is not up yet. I guess they are getting a lot of complaints or having a lot of problems. I also saw where a lot of tv stations are checking into them, as are local BBB, and Attorney General offices. There are a lot of horror stories on the Internet. I think it is better to use a local breeder, but jmho. Cindy puppyfindfraud.com |
| sweetpea,
some of the questions you should ask are: how old will the pups have to be before leaving mommy? (a puppy should NEVER leave before 8 weeks of age,10 to 12 weeks is even better) how many breeds do you have? ( a reputable breeder will have one breed preferably,2 at most) how many dogs(males and females) do you own and breed? how many litters do you have a year? (depending on number of females,but females should have only one litter per year and not before 18 months of age,preferably) what do you feed your adult dogs?puppies? when are puppies weaned?(shouldnt be weaned before 6 weeks) am i welcome to come and visit the puppies at any time? (answer should be YES) do the pups see a vet before leaving their home? (puppy should be seen shortly after birth,ie:within the first week,at 6 weeks for a physical, vacs and dewormimg,fecal flotation test should be also done,and again at 9 weeks,if breeder keeps them til then) can you provide me with a list of references that i may contact,including those who have gotten puppies from you both recently and in the past? can you give me the name and phone number of your vet? do you have a health guarantee that i can see now?(should be for at least one year,read carefully) may i see pedigrees of dam and sire? are health certificates provided? will pups be paper trained/crate trained by the time they leave your home? do you own both sire and dam? may i see several photos of both? may i see several photos of puppies,past and present?(ask also for one taken in a particular way,ie something like,"can you take a photo of puppy in front of a sams water bottle",etc...anything to PROVE that they have that puppy! or ask for them to take the photo in front of a sign with wording chosen by you.) ask questions about that particular breed. good breeders educate themselves and continue learning if they care about improving the breed and breeding only quality puppies! ask ask ask,keep asking. if you are talking to a less than quality breeder,the more questions you ask,the more easily you will know what type breeder you are dealing with. best wishes in your quest! |
| Ask if you can come see the pups, parents ect. I use puppyfind to sale and I bought my poodle off the site. The people i got him from showed me the whole house! How they keep the adult dogs is what you want to see. |
| Hi, I just purchased a puppy from a mill. I did all the right things. I asked every question in the book. Some people just tell you what you want to hear. You really have to check references, as many as you can. If they cannot give you their vet to call forget it. I heard a story from a vet, that this one older lady did not even get the right pup.
My guy is really sweet, but I am wooried about health problems down the road. These puppies are kept in horrific conditions. My advice, fly out to get the puppy and see there quarters or find another breed closer to home. I am sorry but I feel awful. These are awful, selfish people. I am shocked that puppyfind will even put up some of the pictures I have seen. Discusting!!!!!!!! |
| I got my two pups in Puppyfind. I guess, we're lucky that we found & picked up a good breeder. We list down at least four breeders that we found in the site and start calling and emailing them, two of them did'nt reply. One breeder told us that their dam had a problem in the hips that they found out after she had her litters and marked down their price, she suggests to neutered or spayed the pups. Which is impressive in our part because the lady tells the truth. Then we ty the last breeder on our list, where we get my babies. She's a nice lady from PA and it's their first litters from their OES... the pups arrived with their vet records and all the paper they need for AKC, phone # of the vet. And once in a while she emailed us and ask how's the pups are doing. So far, i dont have any health problem with my pups and the vet said they're healthy, though little bit tiny. But he said it's normal on their age because they very active and playful and they're still growing.
Hope the puppyfind will resolve the issues they're having now. I believed that there are also breeders there that care with their animals like what we do to ours. But still need to be more careful and it's more safe to go to the good reputable breeders and have good recommendations. |
| We got Max from PuppyFind but we drove down and talked with the breeder and seen him before we gave them any money. We did have a problem with picking up the puppy. Apparently the breeder promised the dog we wanted to some one else even after she said that we would get first pick of the liter and told her we were coming down to look at them a week in advance. She didn't tell us that we only had three to choose from out of the 6 until we showed up at their house. We are also having troulbe getting Max AKC registered. Just be careful. |
| We are not breeders but have two beautiful weimaraners who had an unexpected rendevous and now have beautiful, lively pups that need good homes. They are like our grandchildren but we can't possibly keep them all. Needless to say our girl will soon be fixed to avoid this problem in the future. We bought from wonderful breeders and love our babies very much. We posted our pups on puppyfind, not really knowing what else to do. You can't just give away weims, they are needy and demanding and someone reaaly has to want them to give them a good home. I do hope our babies do okay. Any suggestions on how to find loving homes? We bought ours for $650 and $800 but are selling for $350 because there are so many and money isn't the issue. thank God they are all healthy and goodnss so cute!! All suggestions are appreciated. |
hvucnhim wrote: All suggestions are appreciated.
Donate them to a local resuce group that could probably find great homes, and use the money to help the other dogs that have large vet care costs. |
| I would strongly suspect that there are Weimeraner rescues, and that they would have NO PROBLEM placing puppies.
I am thinking it might even be a tax deduction of fair market value....? |
| I have 3 German Shepherd dogs that I bought off Puppyfind and I am very happy with all 3 of them. I have had no problems with their training or handling -- they have been very easy with both. I sold all 9 of their puppies through Puppyfind last year and all buyers are very happy with them. My 2nd litter is now listed and this forum is what is probably what is keeping them from selling. Puppyfind is not all bad, it is like everything else in this WORLD -- BUYER BEWARE. Now a days you have to be careful accepting a Cashiers check or Money Order -- even personal checks are being stopped and people keeping the merchandise. So it is not only so much BUYER BEWARE -- it is SELLER BEWARE also. Take it with a grain off salt and do a lot of talking and question asking. I offer a 3 year Health guarantee and return option in my contract. If a Seller will not offer to take back their dog, or give a reasonable contract -- DO NOT BUY from them. |
| I agree that both the buyer and seller need to do a little bit of research before the transaction. A lot of these stories I read about are ones that the people just buy the dog over the internet and tell the seller to ship it to them. I would never buy a dog without looking at it first and at least talking over the phone with the seller. Of course there are good and bad people in every aspect of the world and puppy find is no different. Everyone wants easy money and you must watch out for frauds. It is tough to do these days with people getting better and better at cover things up until it is too late. We have been lucky and have recieved two healthy puppies from PuppyFind. I would visit with the dogs before I bought them or at least request a picture with a certain object in the picture of the dog such as a pop can. Seller's you too have to beware with more and more people finding ways to get around paying you. I would go for cash, paypal, or last option of check. With the check I know it would be hard but I wouldn't let the dog go until the check cleared. There are some bad people out there but there are also some good ones...just ask a lot of questions and do your homework before you buy or sell.
I would think the rescues would find great homes for the new Weim. pups. |
| We bought Bella through Puppy Find. I guess that we were lucky. Had I found this forum first I might not have used PF but I did and we have a great dog. As we looked through PF for sheepdogs, we always checked the “other dogs by this breeder” section. When we saw that they had multiple breeds listed we scratched them. We only wanted a sheepdog and wanted a breeder that only breed sheepdogs. When we found a dog that looked good we would e-mail and talk to the breeder. The one we went with asked us as many or more questions as we asked her. The thing that impressed me most was that she really grilled us on care and health. She asked if our yard was fenced. The last thing that impressed me was when she said that if our vet did not approve of Bella for any reason that we should ship her back and she would return our check. She said if Bella did not check out we probably would not like her other dogs either.
I am willing to admit that I was still too affected by the loss of Syd to be as clear headed, as I should have been when buying a dog. However, in January, we did not find any puppies we liked in Colorado. I am almost afraid to ask about the breeder for fear of finding out bad information on her. It won’t make any difference now because we think that we have a great dog anyway and our vet has checked her out several times and loves her. |
| As many of us have stated in the past, info about a specific breeder does NOT make your dog any less lovable, or any less than a GREAT DOG!
Just like if you had a child who needed braces or some other medical issue, that does not make the child any less of a GREAT CHILD! Sounds like you did a great amount of work and took the right approach,and Sounds like you found one that cares. As you learn more, you'll be even better at picking a quality breeder! I know I have. We all learn from our lives -- Like my grandmother used to say, "The first 100 years are the hardest!" |
| Thanks, Ron I feel that I did do my homework and that I was rewarded for it. However, I am also willing to admit that I had some luck as well. |
| You guys have me scared now!!
I am getting my puppy through PuppyFind. I live in Dallas, and I wasn't having any luck finding breeders nearby. I emailed everyone on the list for TX from the OESCA website, and only 2 people responded. One lady didn't have any puppies, and didn't plan to, and the other guy seemed a little crazy. What are we supposed to do if we want an OES but have no plans to show it and can't spend the $2000 - 3000 price tag on the Champion/Show quality dogs? The lady I've found seems really nice and helpful. She has two females and one male that she keeps as pets, all unrelated. She doesn't breed excessively. She's answered all of my questions and then some, and she also offers a health guarantee. What else should I do to make sure everything is good? I've read a review from someone who purchased a puppy from her in the past, but I haven't contacted them directly yet. What questions should I ask her references? |
| You can apply to adopt through an OES rescue program and help out a needy sheepie for next to nothing. |
| I would ask them questions about the dog(s) they bought such as...health of the puppy, personality of the puppy, how they intereact with people, etc... I would also ask the breeder about registering your new puppy, whether or not the paperwork is ready or would they be sending it to you when they get it...it has been horrible trying to get some paperwork off a breeder we bought from and still don't have it.
If it is possible I would go look at the puppies before I bought...that is always a big help. I am sure other people will have more information for you. |
| Well, maybe this just proved everyone right. I put a deposit down on the puppies 2 months ago. I was the first to put down a deposit, and to quote the breeder, "yes you would have 1st choice."
The puppies were born late Wednesday night, 8/8. She sent me pictures on Sunday afternoon...48 hours ago. I asked several times when I needed to make my final decision, since I was first pick, and she never gave me an answer. Yesterday, exactly 1 day from when we first saw pictures, I told her "no" for 3 out of the 7 (thus, had narrowed it down to 4). I was asking lots of questions because I've never had a sheepdog before. Things like, when do you know their hair color, eye color, personality, etc. From that, she decided that I will not make a decision any time soon, and sent me an email saying the following, without any kind of warning! Exactly 48 hours from when she first sent me pictures, she sent me an email that said: "Sorry I have never done this before, but I hope you understand.....I have 7 people that know which pup they want....I am sitting here holding their money.....they can not understand why I will not let them go ahead and lock in on a pup, when they know what they want.....I can not risk losing 7 sales, So I will be returning your check to you. I do hope you understand. Most of the people that are purchasing my pups are breeders and they knew the pup as soon as they saw the picture. I just feel that maybe I dont have what you really want, and I would hate for you to want something like gray hair, or brown eyes and end up getting something different. So I really think this is the best thing for both me and you. " She sent this to me at work, so I spent the next half hour crying at my desk. I've been looking forward to this dog for 25 years!! And these particular puppies for 2 months. I've already got her first collar and named the puppy. She never told me when I needed to decide; only that I had first pick. I had basically picked out my favorite, and told her so after her email above. She said she'll ask that person, and if they say no, then I get nothing. I'm so depressed now. I sent pictures of the newborns to my friends and family and I've talked of nothing else for so long. What should I do? She never even came to me with a decision deadline or said if I didn't pick she would have to move on. =( |
| I would take this as a blessing. She's not returning your check to you because you can't make a decision, she just doesn't want to answer your questions. Yeah, I'm sure breeders are knocking down her door for puppies a week after they're born. You can't tell any potential in pups that young as breeding stock. And, if she is selling to breeders, it sounds like nothing more than a giant breeding ring.
I'm sorry that this happened to you and you're so disappointed. I know it doesn't seem like it now, but you'll be glad that you won't have to deal with someone like that in the future. What if the pup had problems and you had to talk to her? She can't even wait less than a week for you to pick a pup that you'll have for the next 10+ years? All she cares about money. You want someone who cares that much about the dogs. You may have to wait, and you may have to look outside your immediate area, but I promise it'll be worth it. Good luck.  |
| The same thing happened to me...only I drove down to the breeder (5 hour drive) thinking I had first pick. Come to find out other people were coming down that weekend as well and had already decided on the dog they wanted so we only had 2-3 to choose from rather than having first pick of the 8 dogs. This really made us mad but we spent the night in a hotel and went back in the morning and picked up a pup. He has turned out to be a great dog for us. I hope things work out for you...I wouldn't do anything if you weren't satisfied with the dogs left to pick from or with the way the transaction is happening. If I wasn't comfortable I would wait for another litter...possilby by another breeder. If you have waited 25 years then you could wait a little longer and get someone that understands what you want. Things usually work out for the best and you could find a better dog if you wait. I will pray for you and hope things work out for you. I remember when we got our first dog...it was so exciting and then the breeder crushed our dreams by saying the dog we wanted wasn't available. We made a decision that it was not going to get us down and found a great dog. We would love any dog we got probably but we really couldn't think of not having Max or Ruby now. |
| I just don't even know what to do now. It's like a miscarriage or something...to go 2 months of pregnancy and tell everyone that the puppies were here, and then it's all instantly snatched away. It's so hard to go back to square one and have to wait months again. Someone compared waiting on your puppy to be born to be like a 5yr old waiting for Christmas. It's like I waited and waited and on Christmas morning there were no presents and now you have to wait until next year.
I think because it gets hot in TX that it's harder to find a puppy here. I guess there's nothing I can do but start searching for breeders again. |
| My wife and I searched for awhile before he decided on Max. You are right it is like Christmas Morning and to not have a present or a present you didn't like is tough. But there weren't any breeders in Kentucky either...there were some in WV, OH, and TN but not KY. We couldn't figure it out but we traveled and got our dog and couldn't do without him. Trust me the dog is worth the wait, we love our Max and Ruby. |
| We picked our Sami when there was 3 left of of 13 and 2 weeks before they could come home and she is perfect in everyway. |
| Sampson was from a littler of 10, and we didn't really get to pick him. Some of you read about how we got him (babysat him for a couple of weeks, and when he returned to the owner he was miserable, so we were asked to adopt him). I saw his littermates, and to be honest, if I had been there to buy a puppy, he would not have been my first choice. He was very cute, but there were a couple of others that seemed more playful, and were even cuter. But guess what? He is the absolute BEST puppy in the world!!! He is calm, crate trained within 2 or 3 days, doesn't bark much, walks nice on a leash, responds very easily to training, is friendly with the kids and other animals, snuggles, but not to the point where he is glued to us.... he is just the absolute ideal puppy in every way. I'm telling you this in an effort to encourage you that the perfect puppy for you does exist.... and it may not even end up being the one you had your heart set on. So much of it is how you care for them once you get them home, and I am sure you will provide nothing but the best, and that will more than likely ensure that you end up with a great dog.
I am sorry you are having such a rough time right now, and I hope everything works itself out soon. |
| Hello,
I am a breeder and I sell puppies on Puppyfind and Next Day Pets. You can't put all breeders into one group. I take pride in my puppies. I have a great home for them and I only place puppies in approved homes. I do not sell to brokers (puppymills). I don't vaccinate myself, all puppies are taken to my vet. I offer a 1 year guarantee and written contract on all puppies. I suggest when looking for a puppy and you use puppyfind, as the following questions. May I have the phone number for your veterinarian? (Ask to speak with the Vet. Ask if all dogs are vaccianted and if they have been to the facility and what condition it was in) May I have 3 names and phone numbers of buyers you have placed puppies with? Could you fax or email me information and history on the breed? Ask if they have a State license Ask if they sell to brokers (puppymills) Ask if they own the sire and dam. Ask if you are welcome to come to their facility and look around. If they tell you they have a USDA license ask them why? Most breeders that have a USDA license must have it to sell to brokers or pet stores in my state. If the breeder doesn't have time to answer these questions then in my book, they aren't being a good breeder. If you need anymore information, please email me at [nooooooo] and I will try to help you all I can. My website is [I don't think so] If it isn't a breed I sale, I will try and find out the information for you or put you in contact with a great breeder. |
| Hmmm...... How many puppies do you produce in a year that you need to advertise on two different puppymill sites?
I've spoken to one particular puppymiller and she seemed like a very nice lady who appeared to care about her dogs. Things are not always what they appear to be. She sold one "used up" brood bitch on Puppyfind for $75 and she was immediately taken by the new owner to the pound to die until we rescued her. Sweetest dog in the world. Many vets aren't going to derail their own gravy-train by saying their clients are bad breeders. People with low expectations aren't always dissatisfied with puppies from questionable breeders... until something goes wrong. Unethical breeders may (gasp!) be lying to the people they're selling puppies to. What about hip, elbow, eye, thyroid and heart testing? An OFA rating on hips at the very minimum should be available on the offa.org web site. Asking the questions isn't good enough. Don't even consider buying a puppy until you have documentation of everything in hand. Many times it's when both parents are on site are the dogs overbred or inbred. What are the pedigrees of your dogs? Do you show or have any of them been shown to championship? Most ethical breeders don't have both sire and dam on site as many championship pups are conceived by artificial insemination. This breed is very precious to me and I don't want to see inferior dogs produced. In my position as an OES Rescue Contact, I often refer people to quality, ethical breeders when they are unsure of adopting a rescue. Advertisers on Puppyfind.com do not qualify as ethical breeders and will never be referred by our rescue group. |
BEWARE! Please do not go to puppyfind or also known as puppymill. I was totally lied to by a breeder on that site and wrote a review warning others. THE BREEDER HAS CONTROL OF THE REVIEWS SO THEY JUST REMOVED IT! Puppyfind will do nothing to help. How can a site that just lets puppymills make money even exist? So sad.  |
| This is where I found Maggie. I am a big believer in 'Family Puppies'. It just seems that every dog I have gotten that way has been perfect. All the rescues and breeder pups have been tough. That said, I would have loved to have gotten a puppy from Atlas's breeder. I wanted a girl though, and she just had boys left. I also really like to meet the parents and see where and how they were raised. I just hope that we did the right thing. I guess time will tell. |
| We got Bella from PuppyFind and she is a happy, healthy, loving member of our family. That being said, I believe that the site is truly "Buyer Beware". We did do a fair amount of up front checking and ultimately I think we were really lucky. I doubt if I would use that breeder or PuppyFind again. Hopefully, I won’t have to make that decision for a long, long time. |
LolasMama wrote: This is where I found Maggie. I am a big believer in 'Family Puppies'. It just seems that every dog I have gotten that way has been perfect. All the rescues and breeder pups have been tough. That said, I would have loved to have gotten a puppy from Atlas's breeder. I wanted a girl though, and she just had boys left. I also really like to meet the parents and see where and how they were raised. I just hope that we did the right thing. I guess time will tell. Normally, those are things that we'd consider red flags if we were suggesting responsible breeders. Phrases like "raised in home," "both parents on site" and "family puppies" are sure signs of BYB. |
ButtersStotch wrote: LolasMama wrote: This is where I found Maggie. I am a big believer in 'Family Puppies'. It just seems that every dog I have gotten that way has been perfect. All the rescues and breeder pups have been tough. That said, I would have loved to have gotten a puppy from Atlas's breeder. I wanted a girl though, and she just had boys left. I also really like to meet the parents and see where and how they were raised. I just hope that we did the right thing. I guess time will tell. Normally, those are things that we'd consider red flags if we were suggesting responsible breeders. Phrases like "raised in home," "both parents on site" and "family puppies" are sure signs of BYB. I have to disagree with you there Jill. Lots of reputable breeders do not have kennels with cages and runs and 30+ dogs on site... Raised in a home means just that, they are raised in the persons' home not in a huge kennel or garage or out in a barn etc.... Family raised goes right along with that... If they are raised by a person who has a family and is not just a single individual then that applies. Both parents on site is also not necessarily a bad thing, lots of breeders have at least one male who they may or may not use with their own females. I think it's a red flag maybe if someone has a bitch or two and one male who they use repeatedly BUT not necessarily. I personally would prefer a pup from someone who raises them in their home not in a kennel type environment if I were looking for a pet. If I had young kids I'd also think it would be important that the pups and mother were around children. I would not care if both parents were on site although yes it would make me look a little further into the breeder if they WERE both on site, I'd look at things like how often they breed, how many litters they've had, how old their dogs are and if they ever used a stud owned by someone else to clear up any concerns re a stud on site. |
| I can see both Willowsprite's and Buttersscothes points...but what bothers me is, Ive spoken to a number of inexperienced dog buyers who assume that because a breeder shows, has a "kennel" name, etc, that they are necessarily raising their dogs in "kennels" and not as family dogs As Willowsprite herself is a very good example of, this just isnt the case. I think a lot of BYBs take advantage of this misconception. |
| I think the point Jill makes, she'll correct me if I'm wrong, is that when the advertising is completely focused on the raised in home aspect of it as something unusual or special. My puppies were raised in the den. (Handy since you tend to sleep next to them the first couple of weeks). I don't have a kennel either. Big deal. Most breeders, even those who may have kennels, don't raise their litters in the kennel. They need to be underfoot. So maybe it's not so much a red flag (though I happen to agree with Jill) as smoke & mirrors in terms of the breeders whose only focus is "home raised" or "family raised" or whatever term they use these days. "If I tell you how wonderful my puppies are because they were raised in my kitchen then maybe you won't notice that I'm STILL a breeder, it's just that I don't do squat in terms of health testing or know the first thing about the breed beyond the fact that I think they're adorable."  It is what it is in that kind of setting, a marketing ploy. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: I think the point Jill makes, she'll correct me if I'm wrong, is that when the advertising is completely focused on the raised in home aspect of it as something unusual or special. My puppies were raised in the den. (Handy since you tend to sleep next to them the first couple of weeks). I don't have a kennel either. Big deal. Most breeders, even those who may have kennels, don't raise their litters in the kennel. They need to be underfoot. So maybe it's not so much a red flag (though I happen to agree with Jill) as smoke & mirrors in terms of the breeders whose only focus is "home raised" or "family raised" or whatever term they use these days. "If I tell you how wonderful my puppies are because they were raised in my kitchen then maybe you won't notice that I'm STILL a breeder, it's just that I don't do squat in terms of health testing or know the first thing about the breed beyond the fact that I think they're adorable." It is what it is in that kind of setting, a marketing ploy. Kristine Exactly. Nothing is absolute, but terms like that in advertising a litter do raise eyebrows. Of course everyone wants a puppy that's been socialized in a loving environment. That's like advertising soap "Now with suds! Gets things clean!" Of course it does, that's a given. I wouldn't consider those points that add value. Its just persuasive language for features that should already be there. Laurel, you're right, too. A lot of people assume that just because someone has a kennel name and is active/recognized in the breed, that they run a massive kennel and puppies are raised on their own with no human interaction. That's not the case. |
ButtersStotch wrote: Laurel, you're right, too. A lot of people assume that just because someone has a kennel name and is active/recognized in the breed, that they run a massive kennel and puppies are raised on their own with no human interaction. That's not the case. Definitley so  I have a kennel name...shared with my mentor. I do dog shows....both conformation & performance. I DO have a kennel. Ask Jill. She's seen it. It's in the walk-out part of my basement, paneled, tiled, individual 5'x5' kennels (with the dogs' names on the doors) with regular house-sized windows & a door that opens into a fenced dog run. I would call my dogs home raised even tho' they sleep in the kennel & stay there when we are gone from home & they eat their meals there. Ask Jill. She's been woken up by them barking directly beneath the room she was sleeping in! No human contgact? I don't think so. As a sign says that hangs in my kitchen "This home operates soley for the comfort of the dogs".  Now ask Kristine about her "living room furniture" |
| Marilyn speaks the truth. You should also mention, the kennel is, essentially, right off the living room. It's very much part of the house and not at all separate. |
ChSheepdogs wrote: Now ask Kristine about her "living room furniture" Oh, sheesh, Marilyn. Thanks for helping push me one step closer to the funny farm   Not that it's really all that relevant to this thread, more indictative of your classic "gone to the dogs" person, breeder or not, but since it's apparently amusing to some  and a picture (or two) is the equivalent of thousand (or so) words, here goes:My livingroom:   What can I say? At least it's colorful  Kristine |
| When I said 'family' puppies, I didn't mean just raised inside. What I meant is that a family that has two of the same sort of dog that has a single litter. I call them oops litters. This was Maggies parents first and only time breeding. They are both 3 years old. I purchased Lily out of the same circumstance. I know it is not the most educated way to do it, but at least I KNOW I'm not supporting puppy mill. This is the first time I have gotten a puppy like this from a place not local. Having Maggie shipped to me was an option available to me. I chose not to do it because I wanted to be sure of her backround. I cannot express how happy I am with the outcome. Everyone has different comfort levels though. I think you should just go with your gut. |
| Kristine, I LOVE your doggie décor! What a great Mama! |
| I'm not saying I think there is anything wrong with actually having a kennel either, I've seen some kennel setups nicer than most people's homes. My whole point is you can't base an opinion of a breeder based on info on a website or in an ad, or lack of info for that matter.... |
LolasMama wrote: When I said 'family' puppies, I didn't mean just raised inside. What I meant is that a family that has two of the same sort of dog that has a single litter. I call them oops litters. This was Maggies parents first and only time breeding. They are both 3 years old. I purchased Lily out of the same circumstance. I know it is not the most educated way to do it, but at least I KNOW I'm not supporting puppy mill. This is the first time I have gotten a puppy like this from a place not local. Having Maggie shipped to me was an option available to me. I chose not to do it because I wanted to be sure of her backround. I cannot express how happy I am with the outcome. Everyone has different comfort levels though. I think you should just go with your gut. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but how do you know you aren't supporting a puppy mill of sorts? How many oops litters could they have had before yours? And why? I'm not trying to single you out, or pick on you, I'm just pointing out that you really don't know. We just try to make every effort to educate people with the right things to look for in purchasing a puppy so when they go searching, they're armed with quality information and can make an informed decision. I don't deny that intuition always plays a part in choosing a breeder, however, it can only be used in combination successfully with research and education. Willowsprite wrote: I'm not saying I think there is anything wrong with actually having a kennel either, I've seen some kennel setups nicer than most people's homes. My whole point is you can't base an opinion of a breeder based on info on a website or in an ad, or lack of info for that matter.... Agreed. You have to do your research but you can use the information or lack of information to look for red flags or as a springboard for questions. I'd never take everything at face value. |
ButtersStotch wrote: LolasMama wrote: When I said 'family' puppies, I didn't mean just raised inside. What I meant is that a family that has two of the same sort of dog that has a single litter. I call them oops litters. This was Maggies parents first and only time breeding. They are both 3 years old. I purchased Lily out of the same circumstance. I know it is not the most educated way to do it, but at least I KNOW I'm not supporting puppy mill. This is the first time I have gotten a puppy like this from a place not local. Having Maggie shipped to me was an option available to me. I chose not to do it because I wanted to be sure of her backround. I cannot express how happy I am with the outcome. Everyone has different comfort levels though. I think you should just go with your gut. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but how do you know you aren't supporting a puppy mill of sorts? How many oops litters could they have had before yours? And why? I'm not trying to single you out, or pick on you, I'm just pointing out that you really don't know. We just try to make every effort to educate people with the right things to look for in purchasing a puppy so when they go searching, they're armed with quality information and can make an informed decision. I don't deny that intuition always plays a part in choosing a breeder, however, it can only be used in combination successfully with research and education. Willowsprite wrote: I'm not saying I think there is anything wrong with actually having a kennel either, I've seen some kennel setups nicer than most people's homes. My whole point is you can't base an opinion of a breeder based on info on a website or in an ad, or lack of info for that matter.... Agreed. You have to do your research but you can use the information or lack of information to look for red flags or as a springboard for questions. I'd never take everything at face value. I absolutely know you are not singling me out. I know it is a volatile subject. I have nothing against responsible breeders. I was just commenting that as I look back, it is these family puppies that have turned out to be rock solid health wise. That is only my experience. I just thought it odd. I know it was their first litter because I called their vet. Could the vet have lied to me? Sure. I don't live my life based on the premise that professionals are going to lie to me though. I also saw the mother and she looked very healthy and happy. The father looked great as well. Had I not been in so much pain, I may have been able to wait for a litter from someone here. It just didn’t work out that way. My gut told me Maggie was my dog. It may still turn out to be a disaster, but I don't regret what I did. |
| Kristine: I have to say, I find your livingroom furniture much more interesting & usable than mine. Well, maybe not more so than my sofa which I lie on every evening & read a book..... |
| Kristine's living room is definitely realistic, I mean really, our dogs use the house as their own agility course anyway, why not? |
| How do I get on forum?I just got my oes .He is 5 months,and a big teddy bear.I love to groom him but I would like to know what is the best band to buy that smells good for his caot.Also what is the best food.The person I got him from feed Royqal canine for large dogs.Is this the right brand?Also some said they saw a add on craigslist for a puppy in missouri .I live 10 mins. from St Louis. |
cohen21 wrote: :lol: How do I get on forum?I just got my oes .He is 5 months,and a big teddy bear.I love to groom him but I would like to know what is the best band to buy that smells good for his caot.Also what is the best food.The person I got him from feed Royqal canine for large dogs.Is this the right brand?Also some said they saw a add on craigslist for a puppy in missouri .I live 10 mins. from St Louis. You are here! Please make a post in the introductions area and tell us all about your OES and yourself. There are several members here that live near you, and an OES club as well. Welcome! |
| I agree. I found a caucasian shepard breeder (Estelf ) through puppy find. The experience has been horrible. I complained through puppy find to no end. They would give me standard responses. I posted my experience on breeders page. The breeder, who has failed to return my money, had puppy find remove my experience. Subsequently, the breeder continues to advertise puppies and has not returned my 3500 dollars. |
| Well...If you buy a puppy/dog sight unseen off of the internet, regardless of what website you are using, then you are asking for trouble ! NEVER BUY and SEND MONEY to have a puppy shipped sight unseen. MEET the breeder in person, MEET the parents of the puppy in person, SEE the litter in person ! If any of that is not possible then do not BUY ! I personally have driven hundreds of miles to buy a puppy...If you are not willing to do that then maybe you do not need a puppy ! Also by buying puppies/dogs sight unseen in this manner is an excellent way of supporting puppy mills/high volume breeders ! These people depend on selling their puppies in this manner...I bet you if you wanted to go to their home and pick up the puppy in person MOST would not allow you to do so and prefer to meet you somewhere else. Does the breeder have a contract on the puppy ? Does the breeder have proof of health clearances that have been done on the parents of the litter (hip xrays, cardiac, etc)-Proof does not include the breeder saying that their vet checked out the parents and said that they were fine to breed-Proof includes OFA, PENN HIP ? And these breeders that say that they are responsible breeders when they are breeding 'hybrids/mutts' are NOT responsible ! IN MY OPINION they are contributing to the overall over population of dogs in shelters just as much as puppy mills/high volume breeders ! ...Just My 2 Cents. |
Guest wrote: Well...If you buy a puppy/dog sight unseen off of the internet, regardless of what website you are using, then you are asking for trouble ! NEVER BUY and SEND MONEY to have a puppy shipped sight unseen. MEET the breeder in person, MEET the parents of the puppy in person, SEE the litter in person ! If any of that is not possible then do not BUY ! I personally have driven hundreds of miles to buy a puppy...If you are not willing to do that then maybe you do not need a puppy ! Also by buying puppies/dogs sight unseen in this manner is an excellent way of supporting puppy mills/high volume breeders ! These people depend on selling their puppies in this manner...I bet you if you wanted to go to their home and pick up the puppy in person MOST would not allow you to do so and prefer to meet you somewhere else. Does the breeder have a contract on the puppy ? Does the breeder have proof of health clearances that have been done on the parents of the litter (hip xrays, cardiac, etc)-Proof does not include the breeder saying that their vet checked out the parents and said that they were fine to breed-Proof includes OFA, PENN HIP ? And these breeders that say that they are responsible breeders when they are breeding 'hybrids/mutts' are NOT responsible ! IN MY OPINION they are contributing to the overall over population of dogs in shelters just as much as puppy mills/high volume breeders ! ...Just My 2 Cents. That is not necessarily true. Many very reputable breeders ship their puppies and many people will find that in order to get a good puppy, they may need to expand their search outside of a driveable distance so they may have to choose to work with a breeder that they've never personally met and get a puppy from parents that they haven't seen other than in pictures. At that point, though, as an educated buyer, you need to check references, check facts and feel comfortable with the breeder that they'll be able to help choose the right puppy for your lifestyle. I can't stress how important it is to, indeed, make sure that you're dealing with a reputable breeder before you send any money or make any sales agreements, though. All experiences aren't bad but they can be if you aren't smart about it. |
| I purchased a puppy from Danielle's puppys in puppyfind , a king charles cavalier who has some severe health problems including a heart murmer which is very bad for this breed and an eye problem that needs surgery. I have all of the back up of correspondence with her, we came to an agreement and then she broke off all contact. I also posted negative reviews that were deleted and i contacted support and have yet to hear back from them. Her name is Danielle wilson from Joplin, MO - and also sells under Ruff Life Puppies. DO NOT BUY FROM HER! She is deceitful and dishonest. I also posted my email address offering to forward all documentation to whoever wanted it proving all that has happened. She also has the nerve to have a pic of my puppy on her ruff life website. This person has no ethics at all! Why does puppyfind not allow negative reviews????? It looks like she is great but is not! do not use puppyfind as they do not allow honest reveiws! |
| When we looked for bloo we looked on the kennel club registered breeder list which came up with puppy finder.. check if they are KC registered contact them go and have a look, check the family tree of the sir and madam and see what you think thats what we did anyways... depending on what country you live in. The above is the UK version but i suppose its the same elsewhere dont know hope this helped |
| I am shocked - Puppy finder, after reviewing all my information has put back my bad review of Danielle Wilson - Danielles Puppys - out of Joplin, MO - All my documentation was in order, including vet records and all the emails we had. I am very glad that they saw that Danielle does not stand by her word, or her honor. she also sells under the name ruff life puppys out of Joplin, MO Hopefully, this will help the next person think twice before dealing with her. |
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