My Dead Flicka
But worse than that, there is a video of the abuse that rodeo horses put up with, before they are let out of the shutts. I couldn't believe it. As a horse lover and someone who abhors any type of cruel or inhumnae treatment of animals I was totally disgusted after watching about 20 seconds of the video in the middle of the article, after the first paragraph. http://www.sharkonline.org/index.php?&page=0000000284 Tim McGraw has yet to make a statement, and also is a huge rodeo fan...apparently...... |
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| That's interesting. I didn't know that. I've seen Tim McHottie being interviewed a few times regarding the movie. No mention of the poor horses. |
| It is awful if there was animal abuse involved, but I don't think it is correct to put the blame at Tim McGraw's feet for being an actor in the movie!! I have been an avid horse-lover and owner for years, and I know many people who work with rodeos and have nothing but the deepest love and admiration for the horses involved. Quote: "My Friend Flicka" star Tim McGraw is a rodeo supporter who has performed at many rodeos and is clearly a fan of this kind of animal abuse. I don't believe it is fair to label Tim McGraw as a supporter of animal abuse just because he likes the rodeo.
However, to have two horses die during the making of the movie suggests that there is a problem somewhere, and the blame should lie with the people who were in charge of asking the horses to perform and protecting them! Sad . . .  I probably won't go see it, either. I read the book as a child and remember how sad it was without the added stress of real issues. |
| If you're a horse lover and a celebrity I don't know why you would take part in a movie or any kind of 'entertainment' that kills or abuses animals, take that opportunity to make a statement! Very frustrating!
Check out www.ALDF.org if you're interested in ways that you can help this kind of thing. I run a student ALDF group at my law school and the ALDF is committed to stopping animal abuse and does a lot of work with animal abuse in show business! It's a huge problem! |
Mop lover wrote: I don't believe it is fair to label Tim McGraw as a supporter of animal abuse just because he likes the rodeo.
I have to disagree with this comment. If you browse the information and video evidence on SHARK (start from the Flicka link above and keep browsing), you'll see that quite a lot of rodeos allow quite a bit of abuse. I found the video of men kicking a baby calf and pulling on it's legs when it wouldn't come out of the gate especially disgusting, not to mention the multiple videos of baby calves being dragged by their throat after being roped to inadequately trained horses. |
| Oh, I get it. If I like westerns with John Wayne, I'm an animal abuse supporter because someone on his set mistreated some of the horses?
Or maybe I'm an animal abuser if I support OESCA and they support tail docking? Maybe I'm a dog shooter because I read the book Old Yeller? Maybe I support Bulimia and Anorexia Nervosa because I like the Ballet? I can understand if they said: "He's a supporter of animal abuse because he likes pit bull fighting, which is illegal and the animals are always abused." It's not like it is the goal of the Rodeo to mistreat animals, unless they simply believe that all of the rodeo is animal mistreatment. This seems to me like it is a way to "pressure" a celebrity into adopting a particular point of view on rodeos, or at least to stop publicly supporting them, because of a much deeper agenda. But that's just my opinion. It all comes back to honesty in our approaches to dealing with things in our society, similar to my post about the anti-smoking agenda and laws about smoking. Let's talk instead about whether rodeos are good things or not, animal abuse at rodeos and how to prevent it and so forth, instead of name-calling a celeb to try to achieve the same goals. If the enlightened among us (animal rights folk) can't elevate the level of public discourse and continue sink to the worst and most cynical tactics then we're doomed as a society, and ultimately the animals will suffer. /climing off the soap box now... |
| Did I mention that Tim McGraw is hawt? Only with the facial hair, though.
I just had the urge to use this:  |
I actually have no clue who Tim McGraw is.... but I just looked him up and yeah... he's darn cute. I'm a sucker for a cowboy.
I actually have a friend who rides rodeo and he's probably been hurt much more than any animal at any rodeo he's ever been in (he's been rolled over by a horse). A few bad examples puts a damper on the whole thing, unfortunately. Wasn't trying to get on a soap box. Where is that thing anyways? Oh, right. I put it away. Hid the soap box where I can't find it ever again.  |
| According to the review of the film, Flicka on the official site of the American Humane Society, the death of two horses during the filming of Flicka were unprevenatable accidents and neither the filmmakers or the animal trainers failed to comply with American Humane’s Guidelines for the Safe Use of Animals in Filmed Media.
The review of the film can be found here: http://www.ahafilm.info/movies/mr.phtml?fid=7776 |
| Thanks for that tgir - glad the record is straight.
I thought they were pretty strict about movies with animals in them. hmmm IMO holding an actor responsible for something like that is like me being responsible for my brother's wife's actions. Same family, but how would I have any idea??? Shellie |
Joahaeyo wrote: Did I mention that Tim McGraw is hawt? Only with the facial hair, though.
I just had the urge to use this: Hot bod, but the face isn't spectacular IMO  |
Willowsprite wrote: Joahaeyo wrote: Did I mention that Tim McGraw is hawt? Only with the facial hair, though. I just had the urge to use this: Hot bod, but the face isn't spectacular IMO I think he looks better with facial hair! |
Oh, I totally wouldn't think he was hot AT ALL if he didn't sing. It's his singing that makes him so hot to me.  |
| I personally think that the rodeos in themselves are cruel to animals, but even if you don't believe that it is hard to ignore the fact that abuse happens and the animals are mistreated all the time (for examples bulls are shocked, poked with sharp objects, their tails are pulled and many other things to get them to start bucking/to make things interesting) even when the rules prohibit this.
The fact that the bull is agitated is not incidental (like anorexia is to the ballet), but it is an integral part of the rodeo... And I don't see how agitating an animal so that it will buck/try to stop the pain/agitation is not considered animal abuse. |
| What about just riding a horse? Is that abuse? I'd guess they'd prefer to not be ridden at all.
When I put a hat on my dog he goes nuts trying to get it off but that doesn't mean that he's being abused, does it? I don't know for sure, because I'm not the bull, but it looks like a strap is around the underside of the bull and he doesn't want it there so he bucks, and they're naturally ornery anyway. Let's analogize to sheepdogs. I've known lots of sheepdogs, personally and through this forum, and very few of them enjoy being groomed. Some accept it, but even Carl's dogs run and hide until they are placed up on the table (if I recall correctly what he has said in the past). I don't know of any animal that likes to have a rope around it's neck and be dragged around a ring in circles, and what about dogs who are made to run obstacle courses for hours a day? So is someone who enjoys the National Specialty a supporter of animal abuse? Are meat eaters immune to this? After all the animal is made to suffer, it's not incidental to the activity; I'm sure the animal wouldn't choose to participate, and I'm sure actual abuse -needless and pointless cruelty- happens to the animals along the way frequently. So someone who likes a steak is a supporter of animal abuse? Do we all have to participate in every humanitarian cause there is in order not to be labeled as a heinous person? Can't we leave some causes up to others to fight? Do I have to inspect every factory that makes every article of my clothing to ensure that there isn't a 7 year old stitching his little heart out for me? Or will I be labeled as a child abuser because I like my Nikes? I just think it's awfully harsh to paint someone as a supporter of animal abuse because they like the rodeo. Just opinion here, and just for the fun of the discussion... |
| I found this somewhere, and kind of feel that animal abuse contravenes any of these:
Animals are supposed to be: free from thirst, hunger and from the incorrect diet. free from discomfort (in cramped conditions, or where it is too wet, too dry, too warm, or too cold). free from pain, injury and disease; (including the results of bad breeding and amputations). free from fear and distress (being scared of being left alone for too long and too often). free to express normal behaviour. So grooming shouldn't cause pain or suffering, and actually if not groomed it would become unhealthy, so grooming is actually preventing harm. And it would be up to the "groomer" to make the experience unstressful. We can all tie our dogs up and get it over and done with by putting our dogs through a lot of stress, but we can also take our time and go it gently and humanely, should we so choose. In the case of a rodeo, if there is no stress or pain involved it may even be fun and good excercise for the animal. Unfortunately I suspect this is not always the case. But it should be investigated if it was important to a participant to know. The dogs at dog shows generally appear to be well taken care of, and if the dog shows have always been a pleasnat experience then it woudn't be abusive at all. And dogs that don't like it are said to " not show well" so don't participate as they would be a waste of time and money. And as for eating animals, there are humane ways of killing them and then there are "other" ways. We can choose to pay attention to what we support by doing our research, should we choose to. And some people will just choose to decline meat totally. And, yes, I would hope that we all pay attention to what we support when we spend our money. Yes, we should care if products we buy are produced in "inhumnae" conditions. That's what boycotts are all about, aren't they? We can choose to participate or not. Like anything, I am sure that there are always the negative side to almost every aspect of the services we pay for, and it is up to us to pay atttention.. Well, I try to, the best I can, wherever I can. And I do not feel guilty if I don't succeed 100% because that is not my personal goal. It might be someone else's, and that is their choice. But education is everything. It would be unwise to make a choice without understanding the choices we do have. For discussion, only, of cource... |
| I think that any activity that necessitates abuse should not be tolerated or supported, and that includes eating meat. I actually think that eating meat is one of the most unnecessary forms of animal abuse that exists... and wish that no one would do it.
I think that grooming a dog is different than riding a bull. You groom the dog because you don't want them to get matted, get infections, be uncomfortable etc. You put a strap on a bulls testicles because you want people to cheer and laugh at how uncomfortable it is. I think there is an important distinction there. As far as taking up every humanitarian cause, I think that people should be held accountable for their actions, but I also understand that we live in a society in which it is hard to avoid abuse so I don't think we should call anyone a heinous person. But if someone is promoting a rodeo, in which they know animals are absolutely abused, then I think it would be logical and fair to say that they support animal abuse. It becomes really easy to say that because I am not going into a slaughterhouse and cutting off a chickens beak, or pumping a cow full of hormones, or doing some other horrible thing that happens to animals when they are being prepared for us to eat... that I am not responsible for that. I think to the contrary we are responsible for every bad thing that we allow to happen. |
| Forgot my disclaimer- for the sake of a good discussion!
(but seriously, I love the discourse and like being challenged to think about my views!) |
Lil Walty wrote: It becomes really easy to say that because I am not going into a slaughterhouse and cutting off a chickens beak, or pumping a cow full of hormones, or doing some other horrible thing that happens to animals when they are being prepared for us to eat... that I am not responsible for that. I think to the contrary we are responsible for every bad thing that we allow to happen.
Don't buy grocery store meats and this won't be the case. This unfortunately is routine at what they call "factory farms". Of course, these are the only picture that is painted for you in pro-vegan, PEeTAh publications. Ever visited a local farm? I have visited local (small) farms - both chicken and cow where none of this happens. Chickens are loose in a huge, clean barn where their food, water, temperature, etc. are all regulated so they are comfortable and happy. Cows go outside during the day to roam the fields (in good weather) and are brought inside at night. They are well fed and always have fresh water and clean bedding. Then I go to the farmer's market and get meat from local farmers who treat their animals like this. In all cases - Rodeo, Farming, Seal Clubbing, etc. I think that we need to educate ourselves on both sides of the story. Get information from many sources, including personal experiences. When you understand what you are debating with you can do so much more effectively. |
| I'm going to start a new thread in "Food for Thought" for this discussion to continue... |
Sheepie Heaven wrote: Don't buy grocery store meats and this won't be the case. This unfortunately is routine at what they call "factory farms". Of course, these are the only picture that is painted for you in pro-vegan, PEeTAh publications. Ever visited a local farm? I have visited local (small) farms - both chicken and cow where none of this happens. Chickens are loose in a huge, clean barn where their food, water, temperature, etc. are all regulated so they are comfortable and happy. Cows go outside during the day to roam the fields (in good weather) and are brought inside at night. They are well fed and always have fresh water and clean bedding. Then I go to the farmer's market and get meat from local farmers who treat their animals like this. In all cases - Rodeo, Farming, Seal Clubbing, etc. I think that we need to educate ourselves on both sides of the story. Get information from many sources, including personal experiences. When you understand what you are debating with you can do so much more effectively. That's how it is done on my parents' farm. The animals on the farm are treated like pets - except there are no attachments involved because of what is going to happen to them. They are treated very well though. |
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