OES sheepdog with blue eyes?
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No they are not looked down at, at least not in Norway  |
| They are not looked down on, however, there MAY be some health issues with blue eyed sheepies...My Panda has the loveliest blue eyes in the whole world(okay, so im a little impartial) and she is just fine......check the history of both parents, that could tell you more than anything... |
| Blue eyes are just as fine as brown eyes or one of each, but I'll re-emphasize what Darcy said: your best way to assure that your pup's blue eyes are just there for the beauty (and don't indicate health issues) is to check the health history of the parents. |
| If you are in the US, I would like to encourage you to please choose a breeder through the Old English Sheepdog of America's referral program. http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamerica.org/ The breeders that are listed have to sign a code of ethics (which is also posted) to ensure the health of the breed in their breeding program.
Especially if you are thinking about breeding some day, the breeder that you choose can also act as your mentor and they can be with you every step of the way. Please do not buy a puppy through a pet store or by a classified in your newspaper as many puppies sold this way are from a puppy mill or a commercial breeder who is only in breeding to make money. |
Thanks for the advice.I do not personally know the breeder i am buying from, however I have talked with him on the phone several times as well as emails. He assured me he only has a litter every once and a while and the only OES he has are the parents. I haven't however discussed any health problems of the parents yet, my puppy isn't due until November, but i thought i would get as much info as possible before purchasing. I will be driving to pick her up though so i can see the environment she is in. I am a bit partial to the blue eyes myself and he informed me that most people steer away from the pups with lighter eyes if they were interested in breeding or showing and i was just curious why. I am a former husky owner and never had any problems with my girls' light colored eyes. But i guess all breeds are different  |
| Michelle, I just wanted to pop in with my two cents to restate what several people have said already. Please be extremely careful in purchasing a puppy from a backyard breeder. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest not doing it at all. Your situation sounds much like mine two years ago. My mom and I both wanted sheepy puppies so badly. Through a friend of a friend we found a very nice man who had some sheepdogs on his farm and let them breed occasionally. My parents had a sheepdog when I was a baby, but that was all the experience / knowledge we had about them at that point (that was before I joined this forum). We knew that we didn't want show dogs, just good pets, so we didn't think we needed to be too concerned about the parents and the breeding and all that. The breeder said he had not had any health problems with his dogs or any of the puppies that he knew about, but that was the extent of the 'health guarantee' that he could offer.
So here we are and our girls are 2 years old. My dog, Callie, is healthy so far - very high strung, but we're okay with that. My mom's dog, Sadie, already has pretty severe symptoms of hip displaysia. Sometimes she can hardly stand on her own. So I guess my point here is just that if I had known then what I know now (and I am certainly no expert now), I would not have purchased puppies from a backyard breeder. There is really no way to know when they are that young what health problems they may have. Your only hint is the health of the parents. So I would suggest that if you still want to get a puppy from this breeder, that you insist on some sort of health guarantee or a certificate of health (I'm not sure what official documents are available - perhaps someone else can answer that question), but also make sure that the parents have passed an OFA screening for hip displaysia. This is even more important if there is any chance you may show or breed in the future. p.s. - You should join the forum. There is soooo much helpful information here - it's amazing how much you can learn from the really knowledgeable people on this forum. Also, we love new members and when you do get a new puppy, we will want to hear all about it. |
| Well put, Callie's mom.
At the very least, the breeder should provide you with proof that both parents had their hips tested and eyes tested and both healthy. They should be able to provide you with full documented lineage of both parents. Don't underestimate how important this is. I recently heard a horror story about some lady who has Husky littermates and didn't bother to get them fixed because they're brother and sister - "they won't mate!". When the first litter came, the lady was surprised but happy with the money she made. So, they decided to breed their dogs again and are now expecting their second litter from their two littermates. To the unsuspecting buyer, they seem like lovely caring people and they can see that these are purepred huskeys.... but what they don't see could cost them a lot of money and heartache. Don't be afraid to ask lots of questions. Ask for references to call people who have puppies from this breeder. Your breeder should be open to answer any questions you have at all and if at any point they are being evasive or you get an off feeling about it, look elsewhere. Best of luck to you! |
guest wrote: I am a bit partial to the blue eyes myself and he informed me that most people steer away from the pups with lighter eyes if they were interested in breeding or showing and i was just curious why.
For this breeder to even make this statement throws a red flag up for me as he is not knowledgeable about the breed standard. Having blue eyes is absolutely NOT a fault in the show ring or for breeding. |
VerveUp wrote: guest wrote: I am a bit partial to the blue eyes myself and he informed me that most people steer away from the pups with lighter eyes if they were interested in breeding or showing and i was just curious why. For this breeder to even make this statement throws a red flag up for me as he is not knowledgeable about the breed standard. Having blue eyes is absolutely NOT a fault in the show ring or for breeding. Maybe the breeder was referring to light brown eyes (lighter eyes) rather than blue eyes? |
| Thanks for the advice! after i read your comments i decided to make a few calls. I spoke with the breeder himself for probably an hour or so. He said that he had no problem giving me a year guarantee on any congenital defects (such as juvenile cataracts and hip dysplasia). I also called Rosalie (at Ar Kan kennels) she sold him his male "Tahoe" and she reassured me that he would back his puppies up if there were any problems. My next question to you is: How should i get this in writing, just in case any problems were to arise? and At what age is it best to certify your pet's hips or is a regular vetrinarian reading of an x-ray sufficient? Also does anyone know the cost involved with certification? I work at an animal clinic and plan on having one of our vetrinarians fully inspect any puppy i get for any problems although only time will tell with some things. I have worked there for four years, but as far as I know we've never taken any xrays to be sent of for certification. |
| If you do a search you can find the website for the sire's breeder. It is not difficult to find.
They dabble in several breeds and claim that if you are looking for a show dog then they are not the breeder for you. That being said then Tahoe should not be bred as he has not been tested for genetric defects and has not been proven to be of breeding quality. They are also a licenced commercial breeder. I personally would go to the National OES Club and get a referral to a breeder that shows their breeding stock and tests their dogs. |
| I would definitely keep looking for a reputable breeder... |
| how do you find a reputable breeder? I feel like i've looked everywhere. OES are not common around here and i could only find two places in this state that had any (Beechy kennels and Ar Kan). I live in Ft.Smith Arkansas- do you have any suggestions, i would like to be able to purchase one without spending more than $700. Where did you all get your dogs? I'm not wanting to show or anything, just want a spoiled rotten pet. |
| To find a reputable breeder, you may need to go outside of Arkansas. Many of us on the forum have driven for hours or days to get our sheepdogs. We have also waited months or even years for our preferred breeder to have a quality litter of pups. It will be well worth it. We drove 8 hours one way, slept at a hotel, and 8 hours home to get our Fozzie.
Also, quality pets/show sheepdogs seem to run between $1000-1500. Keep in mind that you are receiving a quality sheepdog from people who have been doing this for years, have connections in the OES community and stand behind their dogs. As Verveup said, please view this site and choose a breeder through the Old English Sheepdog of America's referral program. http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamerica.org Be patient! |
| To find a reputable breeder, start here:
http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=7690 I don't doubt that you can find a puppy for $700, but it likely won't be from a breeder that is breeding to better the breed and doing all they can to guarantee the health of your puppy. That doesn't necessarily mean that all backyard breeders are bad people, but often, they're just uninformed and are breeding just for fun, or because they like puppies or because they have a dog that they like so they feel like they should breed to have "more" of that dog. That's where the problems start because they aren't working on a breeding program and picking the dam and sire carefully to ensure the best breeding. They're just breeding to make more puppies. I know it sounds like a lot of money, but in the longrun, it's worth it. This dog's going to be with you for the next 10+ years so it's worth it to spend more to get the most out of your time together. It's a small price to pay to have a little more peace of mind regarding the health of your pup. |
| If you have a certain price spending point then you really might want to look into rescuing a dog and there are many rescue contacts listed on OES.org .
Since you work in a vet clinic, I'm sure you also know how costly medical expenses for a dog can be, plus with this breed there is a lot of money spent on grooming whether you do it yourself, or take it to a groomer. Just want to point out that even with an OES of America "referred" breeder, you can't always guarantee that something won't be wrong with your pup. Getting your pup from the referral list does lessen the chances greatly as the breeders discontinue bloodlines if some serious medical issue arises. |
Along with what has already been said, buying from a show breeder does not necessarily mean that you are going to have to show a dog or anything like that. When a "show" breeder breeds, they may have a litter of 6 puppies but only 1 of them may be "show quality". There is nothing really wrong with the other puppies but they may have a flaw like a flat topline, soft coat, small head, etc. All of these things would proclude them from the show ring (Remember, showing is trying to determine who has the best breed stock to BETTER THE BREED. People who don't show yet breed are probably getting lax in their opinion of their dogs. Outside criticism, so to say, keeps you honest and true to what is correct in these dogs.) back to what I was saying  the above faults are not health problems that would have any effect on the quality of life of your dog but they are not part of the 'perfect' dog. By getting one of the other 5 dogs in that litter you are getting a dog who's parents have been proven for their quality, had all the appropriate health checks and have had all the care taken to make sure the pup that you get is the best it can be.
I have had all sorts of OES over the course of owning this breed. My first dog was from a puppy mill and bought from a pet shop. This was in the early 90s when buyer education was a bit poor. (To say the least!) He was a great dog that lived forever but he had allergies that probably could have been prevented by better breeding. I also have a backyard breeder dog who is the dorkiest looking sheepdog that you could imagine! He is HUGE, his legs are way too long and he is cow hocked and straight legged which means he will probably have joint problems in the future and will be prone to more orthopedic injuries because he's not built right. He is also twitchy and constantly in motion. His breeders were extremely nice people who meant well. The also x-rayed hips but didn't certify. I thought that that would be enough but it really isn't. Most vets only really notice problems so they think everything is alright because they don't see anything wrong. It's the difference between a general practitioner and an orthopedic surgeon. My next dog I got from an extremely reputable breeder and when I physically received him I thought he was amazing. Now that I have been around showing for a while I can see some of his little faults which are nothing that are going to hurt him or hinder his life but it means he's not perfect. Now, I have been very priviledged to share my house, or her house as she likes to think  , with a near perfect dog. A lot of work and years of experience have gone into her breeding. She's also the only one out of her litter who is showing; I think there were 9 of them. So, somewhere out there are 8 little/not so little anymore, pups who have had the same work and care put into their lives and because of dumb 'flaws' are living the pampered pet life.
So remember, do your research and expect to get what you pay for. Be honest and up front about what you can afford to pay and what you can afford in the future. Care and upkeep are not cheap so make sure you've budgeted for that as well. Many breeders may work with you on price if they think you'll be an amazing home for one of their pups. |
| Everyone has given excellent advice. I would just like to add a couple things.
Hips cannot be certified until 2 years of age so a 1 year health guarantee doesn't mean much. Also, when you are getting a health guarantee be sure to find out exactly what happens "in case". Some breeders will give you a free puppy to replace your unhealthy dog but take back your unhealthy dog to be euthanized (which of course you wouldn't want to do). Others will give you a free puppy but you still get to keep you unhealthy dog. Make sure you know the details of your health guarantee. Also, $700 won't buy you good, responsible breeding unless the breeder is fabulously wealthy and breeds for the betterment of the breed. Our breeder does it for her love of the breed and for the betterment of the breed. Our "pet-quality" baby cost us $1500 (+tax), the breeder lost money on the transaction and he is worth every penny. Good responsible breeding will mean a longer, healthier life with your dog. It will also mean a dog with a great personality who is well socialized. Please look for a reference from someone on the forum and good luck with your search. |
Blue eyes are just as fine as brown eyes 
I have Harry and Pirelly with brown eyes, and Daisy with blue eyes and they are all adorable |
| Just throwing this out there -
I would think that for $700 this breeder is either seriously losing money or is not doing testing and/or not giving the dogs really great care. There are few really good breeders and likely you will be traveling to get a pup from a good breeder. You may really be anxious to get that puppy, but trust me you and your dog will be much better off if you wait, save up the money you need for the puppy and his care, and find a good breeder. You will also likely be waiting for your pup once you locate and are accepted by the breeder. Please make sure the breeder is testing the pups parents, and do not take their word - check it out for yourself. A good breeder will be pleased you took the responsibility and not just their word. (You don't know the breeder from Adam, why would you blindly just trust them??) It seems overwhelming - all the advice you have gotten here, but we have seen many situations over the years that may have been avoided with better breeding. We don't want you to be heartbroken. As someone said before - consider rescue! Big advantages to rescue, not to mention you are giving an unwanted dog the gift of a lifetime. You may avoid the early puppy months that can be difficult - housetraining, chewing, crazy puppiness... Take it slow, learn about the breed, save up the money, and above all find a good breeder. There was a post earlier about how to find one... Get familiar with your breeder, ask lots of questions. Be patient...I know it's tough good luck Shellie |
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