Chummie's Hips Aren't Working Right
I have an appointment with my friend's vet for her today. I hope he will be able to reassure me that this is fleeting. She was walking fine last Sunday and Monday before I dropped her off.  |
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| Oh, Val. I'm so sorry. I hope the vet can help. |
My thoughts are with you and Chummie.  Maybe he'll change her medication. Please keep us updated!! |
| So sorry Val |
| Poor Chum. Let us know what happens at the vet. |
| Keep us updated. |
I hope Chum starts feeling better. Keep us posted. Simon sends basset drool, which is very therapeutic  . Hugs to you Chum. |
| Oh Val,
I hope that it is nothing serious. I will be thinking about you and Chum and Maggie. Anxiously waiting to hear... Brenda |
| Oh Val...so sorry to hear that....what did the vet say?? |
| I can't imagine what it would be like to see my dog go through that. I hope the vet has some encouraging news for you. Poor Chummie |
| Poor Chummie!!! |
I'm anxiously awaiting good news from the vet. Poor, sweet, Chum!  |
| Me too. Any news? |
| I hope Chummie is ok and he just needs some rest . . . let us know. |
| Poor girl... |
| Val,
Perhaps she wasn't getting her pain meds properly at doggie camp. It takes about 3 days for it to work back fully into the system. I'm thinking of you guys today. |
| We went to the vet. He was very brusque and mean but the main message is that Chum does not know where her legs are. She had possible deficits during orthapedic exams earlier this summer and minor but detectable deficits in rear foot placement just over a week or so ago when I took her to the vet in SLC. Today, the vet crossed her legs and she could not uncross them. She can't get up. She can't stay up long without falling over. I am very afraid that the strenuousness of this trip has been too much for her. I believe the word the Vet used was spinal myelopathy and I am about to look that up but my understanding is that the condition is grave and not really treatable. He gave her a cortisone shot and asked us to come back tomorrow and he will prescribe something else, when the Rimadyl is out of her system. |
| I'm so sorry to hear bad that it's bad news. You and Chum will be in my thoughts. |
| Oh dear. That does not sound good. Have you given any thought to calling the vets where she was treated this summer and discussing this with them? You seemed to really have a good rapport with them and they seemed to love Chumley. I'd be interested in hearing their opinions since they spent so much time with her and understand her history.
I know they can't do anything from so far away, but they might provide insight. 
I find it very difficult to accept bad news, especially from an unpleasant doctor. |
| Val,
I found the following on this website: http://www.vetinfo.com/ddegnmyo.html Q: Hello Dr Mike, Our 10 year old Old English Sheepdog has been diagnosed as having Degenerative Myelopathy. She is not too bad walking straight but when she turns or tries to run her legs get "mixed up". She does not appear to be in any pain and is still very lively. After an initial course of steroids (PLT) the vet advised us to gradually decrease the dose to none and then give them to her when we thought she needed them. She is coping well so far. I have read about the uses of vitamins for DM especially vitamins E, C and B, and of Evening Primrose Oil. Have you heard any reports? If so, what dosage would you suggest? I would also like to hear about your experience of dogs with DM. Thanks A: We have seen degenerative myelopathy several times in our practice. We have tried aminocaprioic acid (Amicar Rx) and Vitamin E in combination as described by Dr. Clemmons of Florida State University. His recommendation is to use aminocaprioic acid, 500mg every 12 hours and Vitamin E, 2000 IU daily. It is necessary to work up to the high Vitamin E dosage gradually since some dogs may have diarrhea if suddenly put on this high of a dosage. Vitamin B is given at the recommended dosage for the product being used (they vary). I have not seen a recommendation for using the other things you wrote about so I can not report on dosage or treatment methodology. We have discussed the success of the treatment with owners of the involved dogs and among ourselves and have not reached a consensus on whether or not we think it is beneficial. Some dogs did seem to do better and others we were not sure about. Hope that helps. Mike Richards, DVM Not sure if this helps or not. I thought it was very interesting as it was a sheepie. Will keep you in our prayers. Poor Baby - give her a kiss and a hug from this bunch. |
| Oh no. I am still crossing my fingers that something can be done to make Chum feel better. I don't understand though... does this mean she can't walk at all even on meds? I am praying for Chum |
| Poor Chummie
Oh, Val. I'm so sorry. I hope the vet can help her to morrow! |
| Val,
I am so sorry to hear about Chummie. I hope the vet can do something for her. |
| Thanks everyone. I am so worried about whether the trip sent her over the edge. My friend keeps telling me to focus on all the wonderful time we've had together.
Joahaeyo wrote: does this mean she can't walk at all even on meds? :
Yes, she is very unsteady. It is very hard for her to get up and when she does, she can only take a few steps before falling over. My friend where we are staying just went into her garage and collected all the carpet scraps to cover up her beautiful slippery floors. That has helped a bit. . . |
| So sorry to hear the news
Val use a towel as a sling under her to support her backend & makes it easier to help them to their feet, so you can take her to potty etc. Easy to do and help support the backend. I used that method when Peppas backend went completely. Hugs for Chum. I hope she improves |
| Re towel -- good idea. I will try that. Does anyone know how fast this will happen? Could she improve? We have an appt with a neurologist tomorrow. . . |
| There are so many things that can cause her symptoms.. I'd wait and see what the neurologist has to say....
I hope they can find a way to help her... |
Valerie wrote: My friend keeps telling me to focus on all the wonderful time we've had together.
She's right. Chum's truly enjoyed herself on this trip. All that extra time with you has been wonderful. |
| Valerie,
I am so upset that you are going through this. First off, I think the trip was the most wonderful thing you could do for her. Her health situation was going to happen regardless and you've done so well for her for allowing her to have such adventures and happiness. If anything I think the happiness probably staved this off. We used the towel for Katrina as well for the back end and it was very helpful but will be strenuous on YOUR back so be prepared for that. If you think you might be coming through the Vegas way we have the vet that does accupressure and alternative types of stuff but she is very hard to get into so give me a heads up so I can try to pull a favor from the office, but she doesn't work on Fridays. There is a second vet of that nature too that is in town I don't know how difficult it is to get into her. I want to help you any way I can. I think what Ron said too about she might not have gotten her medicine properly and that could have thrown her for a loop. The idea to call her regular vet for advice seems very smart as well. You've had a lot of good luck with Chummie and I'm hoping for the absolute best for you guys!!!! I'm sure you have an angel on your shoulders. Hang in there you have a lot of support on the Sheepie trail.  Hugs from us!!! |
Willowsprite wrote: There are so many things that can cause her symptoms..
Really? Like what? I feel like they have always done this same test looking out for the possibility of Degenerative Myelopathy and now she has flunked the test. What else causes it? |
| The towel is helping -- as are all the carpet squares. The best thing has been the margaritas my friend's husband made.
I did call her Philly neurologist and left a message but I haven't heard back from her yet. |
| Val, I'm so sorry to hear that Chum's legs aren't working right. I can only hope for her to bounce back like she did before. Please know that you guys are in my thoughts... |
| Val, try going to the site called doggon.org. They sell products called support slings which are the same principle as the towel (which will work, although the sling works better). They are not cheap, but they are very well made, totally washable and very effective. We had them with Merlin when he lost the use of his back legs. They work with a cart, if you decide you need one and want to go that route (we did and it worked well for a while. But Merlin was really getting older and weaker) or without--especially in the house.
I found them to be well worth the investiment. They make the slings to the specific dimensions of your dog. They gave Merlin many months of quality living. They also really saved our backs. If you go that route, I'd get two--one can be washing while the other is in use. We left one on Merlin when he was in the house so that we could easily help him up when he wanted to move. Obviously, his walks were very, very much shorter--at most, around the block, but it allowed him to get around outside and to do his business. This is obviously not a cure, but a tool to help Chum and you, if you find it's needed. Of course, I hope that you are able to find a treatment that would make a sling unnecessary. Will send out lots of good thoughts for you and your baby. |
| Let's not jump to conclusions. I'm not buying the brusque vet's diagnosis. Chummie has been very actively lately. Who's to say what all she did at camp. It could be rest is the best answer for now.
I had a rescue with degenerative lumbosacral stenosis and the vet wanted to operate immediately. I said NO! (Plus I couldn't afford it!!!!) She was adopted by people knowing she had this problem and she had several very happy years with her new family. If you read more about DM, you will see it takes more than an xray to diagnose. So let's continue to offer her physical support and let her rest. Her growlies may be due to the doggie spa. Give her time to settle. I'm always nervous about Rimadyl and the effect on the liver. If you find a vet you feel good about, have a blood test and liver functions. Degenerative lumbosacral stenosis is narrowing of the lumbosacral vertebral canal that results in compression of the cauda equina or nerve roots. It is most common in large breeds of dogs, especially German Shepherds, and is rare in cats. It results from degeneration and protrusion of the L7 to S1 disk, hypertrophy of the ligamentum flavum, or rarely subluxation of the lumbosacral joint. The cause is unknown, although German Shepherds with congenital transitional vertebrae are at increased risk. Clinical signs typically begin at 3-7 yr of age and may include difficulty using the pelvic limbs, pelvic limb lameness, tail weakness, and incontinence. Pain on palpation or extension of the lumbosacral joint is the most consistent finding. There may be proprioceptive deficits, muscle atrophy, or a weak flexor reflex in the pelvic limbs. Plain radiographs may show degenerative changes, but definitive diagnosis requires MRI, computed tomography, or epidurography. Dogs in which mild pain is the only sign may improve with 4-6 wk of rest. Treatment consists of surgical decompression of the cauda equina and spinal nerves. Prognosis for recovery is good, although urinary incontinence may not resolve. Degenerative myelopathy of dogs (chronic degenerative radiculomyelopathy) is a slowly progressive, noninflammatory degeneration of the axons and myelin in the white matter of the spinal cord. It is most common in German Shepherds and Welsh Corgis, but is occasionally recognized in other breeds. The cause is unknown, although genetic factors are suspected. Pathologically, there is noninflammatory degeneration of axons in the white matter of the spinal cord, which is most severe in the thoracic region. Affected dogs are usually >5 yr old and develop an insidious onset of nonpainful ataxia and weakness of the pelvic limbs. Spinal reflexes are usually normal or exaggerated, but in ~10% of cases, patellar reflexes are weak, reflecting involvement of lumbar dorsal nerve roots. Early cases may be confused with orthopedic disorders; however, proprioceptive deficits are an early feature of degenerative myelopathy and are not seen in orthopedic disease. Signs slowly progress to paraplegia over 6-36 mo, although signs may fluctuate. Myelography or MRI and CSF analysis are essential to rule out compressive and inflammatory diseases. Treatment with aminocaproic acid (500 mg, PO, tid), vitamin supplements, and exercise has been recommended, but the safety and efficacy of this treatment has not been documented. The longterm prognosis is poor; most animals are euthanized within 1-3 yr of diagnosis. |
| I totally agree with what SheepieBoss has posted, I am hoping she is just a bit worn out at the moment and maybe the fact that she might of over exerted herself or something at the dog boarding facility and they might of not given her, her required dose of Pain Meds. As ron said they can take a couple of days to kick in again.
Stay positive Val, I am totally for you & Chumley, glad the Towel is Helping too, don't forget you can walk her around outside holding the top of the towel to support her and stop her going down on you while she pottys or just needs a bit of a stretch. Hoping a few quiet relaxing days will show an improvement and get her more mobile again. Love to you and Chum, she is a strong girl with a strong spirit & so lucky and blessed to have you for her Mom.  |
Valerie wrote: Willowsprite wrote: There are so many things that can cause her symptoms.. Really? Like what? I feel like they have always done this same test looking out for the possibility of Degenerative Myelopathy and now she has flunked the test. What else causes it? Ataxia itself is only a symptom, and it can be a symptom of so many things, too many to list. Just a few could be blood clots, stroke, infection in the brain, tumor in the brain, various things involving the nerves, hemmorage, damage, shrinkage or loss of Purkinje cells in the cerebellum causes ataxia as well.... The vet describing her symptoms as "she doesn't know where her legs are" (loss of spatial sense, ataxia) really widens the field of possiblities. It definitely involves the brain though. |
| A more simple cause of ataxia is an inner ear infection. Since Chummy was swimming at doggy camp, did the Dr consider this and check her ears? Or given her previous history, did he jump right to this diagnosis?
My husband has a chronic ear condition and when it flares he can't walk til meds kick in. Best to you and Chummy, Kathy & Chauncey |
| That's interesting. Chum really didnt do any swimming (that was Maggie) and her ears look and smell clean. But I will ask.
The doggon.com slings look great. |
| Bassets are really prone to back and disc problems. Several people in our group have needed the slings (unfortunately) and they said they are wonderful. More comfortable for the dog, and easier to use than the towels.
Hopefully you won't need one, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents.
Also, one of our forum members had one, and it has been passed around to 2 other members this year. Some people may cut down computer contacts, but this forum and my basset one are great!!  It must be the fact that we love our dogs. |
| Sorry Val, read swimming & thought it was Chummy. Still worth a look though. All our prayers, Kathy |
| Well, the neurologist was more optimistic than the general vet. She said her condition deteriorated too rapidly to be degenerative. She is very concerned about Chummie's spine and I left her overnight for more testing tomorrow. She's also supposed to discuss with the Philly neurologist too. I'll keep you posted (as usual).
When I got home from the appointment, my friend's girls were so bummed that Chummie was still at the hospital. They gave me a present for her -- a shimmery pink princess hat and cape. It was so sweet. Then they gave Maggie a new tug toy and played for hours with her. Couldn't be in a better place to be dealing with this. . . . |
| That is wonderful that the neurologist is more optimistic!
Hopefully they'll be able to figure out what's going on, and get her all fixed up.  |
| My thoughts and prayers are with Chummie and you during this difficult time. Poor girl! |
| Val , lots of best wishes from Chaunce & I,,, Kathy |
That sounds so much more promising then the other Vet. 
Val it is not a slipped disk pinching the nerves in her spine? That can bring on symptoms with the back legs not responding. Just a thought there |
lisaoes wrote: Val it is not a slipped disk pinching the nerves in her spine?
Maybe. . . That is definitely something she will look at. The other Vet was so mean that my friend is actually going to switch to another practice. He just dropped her on the floor and told me she was terminal. This doctor says there are lots of possible causes and treatments and that I should be encouraged by her happy eyes and good appetite. |
| OMG - he actually did that and said that!!!?
That is horrible. I bet your friend feels awful. Best wishes for you and Chummie . |
| We just went through some preliminary tests with the weird spinal thing we were going through with Haggis that I pm'd you about. It now seems to be more like an injury thing like a pinched nerve and there has been a big improvement.
If it is lumbosacral related they can do a quick anal exam and actually touch the spine from the rectum. Lumbosacral issues could cause back end paralysis. If this area is touched it would cause screaming pain. Just a suggestion since this would be an inexpensive test for your vet to perform. Do they think that maybe she slipped a disk or pinched a nerve with all of the activity? Maybe she does some weird tense thing to her spine when you board her. Just seems strange that both of these incidents you've had have been after boarding. |
| Deb -- I was going to PM you for an update on Haggis. Glad to hear he is doing better. Is he being treated or is it just time healing his wound?
I feel bad that both situations happened while boarding her. . . . I hope it is not related. Re the first vet, I had carried her in on a stretcher and put her on the exam table. he lowered the table to the ground and shoved her off of the stretcher to see if she could stand up. Chummie collapsed and splayed out helpless on the slippery floor (looking up at me smiling and confused). He said -- yep, she doesn't know where her legs are. That means myelopathy. OK get her out of here." I asked for help from a technician but he said they were really backed up. My two friends helped me get her back on the stretcher so we could carry her to the car. Today, I had to carry her out of the car myself and I was parked in a really tight spot where I could barely open my door. The woman in the spot next to me was in her car talking on her cellphone. Just after I managed to gently extract Chum and lower her to the ground so I could close the car door, she told me I had made her wait over 5 minutes and she was sure I banged her car. I told her if she waits two minutes more I would be out of her way and she could see for herself that her car was perfectly fine. (I hadn't touched it. I was so careful.) What nerve. She didn't have to be in her car in the busy parking lot talking on the phone. It was wonderful to finally get to the hospital because once we were inside, everyone was really nice and I was relieved that Chum was in good hands. |
| Oh that's terrible for someone to treat you like that when it was obvious you had your hands full. If anything, you'd think she would have a warm heart after seeing you have to carry your dog out of the car.
You handled it better than I would have. My husband always reminds me to bite my tongue because I tend to speak my mind. Still thinking of you and Chummie |
Joahaeyo wrote: Still thinking of you and Chummie
Thank you. And I am still thinking of you, Lil J and Mr. J. . . . |
| That stinks that you're having such rude people experiences to compound your current emotions. You are way to nice too, I probably would have gone ballistic!
Valerie wrote: Is he being treated or is it just time healing his wound?
I would say time is doing it's thing although he was on Deramaxx for a couple of weeks. The biggest improvement was when I had him down in VA with me at the National where he didn't run around with Frank. As soon as he was home, he seemed to irritate it again. Xrays were all fine. If he failed the lumbosacral rectal test then we were going to have to go the neurologist/MRI route. Just going to wait it out at this point as he seems to be improving and try to get his exercise a different way. |
VerveUp wrote: The biggest improvement was when I had him down in VA with me at the National where he didn't run around with Frank. As soon as he was home, he seemed to irritate it again.
I'm so glad he is doing better but I'm bummed that he can't run around with Frank. . . They are such a cute pair. I will definitely ask about that test. My impression is that the area of her spine that hurts is sort of low/mid back -- higher up than the area just above her rump. |
 I can't believe that the vet would treat her like that. Just horrible. Picturing her sweet smiling face makes it even more horrific. I have no words.
I had an experience at a groomers with Katrina and the groomer was rough with her and pulled her on a slippery floor and she slipped & laid sprawled out. I have never gotten that out of my mind. Needless to say I immediately took her out of there. The lady with the cell phone is just unbelievable. How could she not have compassion? Recently you know Hannah has had her share of health issues. Each time an issue has been discovered just after she had been to the groomer. And she doesn't go that often, either. So I know what you mean about everything happening after being at the boarding. I feel your pain. |
I'm appalled at the way the first vet treated both you and Chumley. That image burns me up. 
I am, however, greatly relieved that the neurologist is so great and helpful. I hope she'll have good news for you today after the tests. How wonderful for you to be with good friends who are so supportive while you're dealing with this situation. They sound like truly lovely people. |
| That first vet sounds absolutely terrible!
Hopefully today will bring better news.... *hugs* |
GGGRRRRRRR!  Is there an AMA for vets that you could report this guy to? How horrible!!!
And the woman on the cellphone - how unspeakably rude!!! You were very cool in your response. I would have smacked her!! (There's the Type A in me coming out again!!) |
| Val...I cannot believe the audacity of some people. I also dont know if I would have been that nice. I am just tired of rude and inappropriate behavior.
Give Chum's a sweet kiss from me and whisper in her left ear (thats my favorite ear) that Aunt Darcy says to get better so that she can give you lots of treats and love when you come to visit! |
| Val,
I'll be thinking of you and Chumley today, hoping for some good news. |
| I hope something happy happens today, Val. These people are just all so awful! |
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Sending lots of happy thoughts your way today, best of luck to Chummy Chauncey & Kathy |
| Oh poor sweet Chummie. I hope you get better news about your sick girl. We are thinking about you in St. Louis. |
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