Help!New OES injured my 9 yr. old son
I still think that I have a great dog. Until this incident, she has been very gentle w/all types of people. She is good for the most part w/my cats. I am spending a lot of time w/her and walking or running her between 5 and 7 miles per day. She was surrendered to rescue because the former owner left her for 12 straight hours per day. The family just did not have time for dogs. I have a few ideas to help her but I am open for any suggestions. She is now a family member and I want to do whatever I can to make things work. I'm trying to get over my guilt of what happened to my son. I'm handling it better today. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Beth |
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| Hi Beth! Was this before or after you picked up the pizza. I notice that Bentley's attitude is a whole lot different when there is food around, even though he knows he's not getting any.
Jil |
| That could have a lot to do with it, Jil. Food does change things.
Also, I'm wondering "how" exactly he tried to move her. Even as a baby, my most gentle boy, Beau, did not like it to be "grabbed" and moved. I touch him on the side and make "clucking" sounds with my tongue when I want him to move or switch positions. It's more of a "coaxing" him to where I want him to go and he responds wonderfully. I'm thinking it could just be a matter of learning to handle her in a way that she will accept.  |
| Wow Beth, I'm so sorry this happened.
Is your son OK now? Is he traumatized by it, or has he forgotten already? You say she "hit" his nose... with her teeth or did she bump into him wither her head/snout? If it's the latter, it sounds like an accident of a bouncy puppy. If it was with the teeth it wasn't an accident... Just thinking aloud, it could have been a pecking order type of thing, too. A "food is coming, pack is sorting itself out" thing. Maybe she is having tooth pain, and his moving her head (are we talking trying to push her face off of his lap?) was painful or uncomfortable? Pushing on the side of the head of a dog to move it might not be a great idea anyway. Anyway, just some random thoughts. Let us know and maybe we can all figure this out together. |
| The attack happened when we were almost at the pizza place so it was before food was in the car. The injury was mainly from a bump but there was a very small dot on his nose probably from one of her teeth. My son claims that he dodged her. He hit his head on the window trying to get out of her way. He was crying and saying that Daphne had bit him. I'm sure that he moved her head in some way which she didn't like. I think that he didn't like a drooling sheepie in his lap. He is feeling much better today about Daphne. I want him to start walking her so she will see him as a dominant figure. I also think I'm going to try some obedience classes w/the two of us. She really is a wonderful dog. I have had her now for a little over 2 weeks. I'm sure that she is having to adjust to so much. She was also used to living w/a young male OES.
I'm reading the book"Cezar's Way" so I'm trying to understand things from Daphne's point of view. Thanks again for any advice. Beth |
floofdog wrote: Bentley's attitude is a whole lot different when there is food around, even though he knows he's not getting any.
Ahem. . . I am still waiting for you to post that photo of you retrieving your sandwich from Bentley's mouth. . .  |
| Obedience is a great start. As soon as sheepie learns sit and stay, start having your son feed her. Have your son command a sit and stay. The dog must learn to stay as the bowl is being put down and your son gives the eat command. The dog must learn he is low down in pack order, that humans control his food and his life.
Walking together is a good first step. You hold the leash, your son holds the leash. Right now she's trying to decide her position in the family and will fight for a higher position unless the humans are firm in their roles. I'm sorry this happened, but hopefully your son doesn't hold a grudge nor will it turn him away from the dog. The more he is with the dog and in control of the dog, the better their relationship will be. |
| This could be a pack order (dominance) issue.
We got our first sheepdog when she was six weeks and our boys were 7 and 10. She grew up with them and would let them feed her, put pills toward the back of her tongue, wipe her paws, check her bottom, let her in, let her out and generally take care of her. She would even let my younger son push her out of the way when she was begging when he was eating in front of the TV. But until the day she died at 10 1/2 and they were 17 and 21, she would not let them tell her what to do - especially to move off the couch or my bed. It was almost like a kid saying "You are not Mom and Dad and you are not the boss of me" We left her alone with Jack when he was 16 for five days during our 20th anniversary. She was good as gold for him. But he made the mistake of putting her on my bed one night for them to sleep and the next morning she would not get off. If he tried to move she would growl and trying to coax her with treats and trick her with the doorbell did not work. He called me long distance in Bermuda to complain and when my suggestions didn't work he called back. I told him to leave her there and go to school. She got off the bed before he left  she was just being difficult.
Anyway, you can certainly address these issues better than we probably did. But other than the fact that she is a little older and may require extra work to establish pack order, you should be able to have a great family member. Check out our Mopsy growing up with two boys by clicking on my photo icon - her pictures start near the bottom of the page with the little puppy. You will be able to tell that she and her brothers were very close. Good luck Beth and congratulations on your new sheepie! |
| I'm sorry about the experience. I think having your son walk Daphne is a great way to start getting the relationship in a good order (as long as you're there as well)! Who feeds your gir? It may be good to have your son feed her, too. I commend you for taking on an OES rescue - they are such wonderful dogs. Obedience classes are great, too. Keep us informed on how she's doing! |
Quote: ...the former owner left her for 12 straight hours per day. The family just did not have time for dogs. Quote: I am spending a lot of time w/her and walking or running her between 5 and 7 miles per day.
If this sheepie-girl had spent this much time on her own each day you may need to gradually work her into her new family's routine. You may need to give her some quite time alone a few times throughout the day 'til she adjusts to her new life. It might just be that there is so much more going on than what she's used to. It's stressful for most rescues coming into a new home and it can take several months for a dog to finally settle in. So go slow with her and don't push or force her to do something that might cause a reaction. Watch the body language too (tensing/stiffening up)... it can tell you when to back off. You need to build the trust and it simply takes time. You may wish to take some classes... have the entire family work on the same command and the same approach to each command... praising each accomplishment and making it fun. It can put the kids in an authoritative position in the dog's eyes. Maybe the next time your son wants her off his lap he can bribe her (in other words reward her) to accomplish the same thing. Sometimes it's just about finding ways to do things that will leave everyone happy. I hope your son isn't fearful of dogs now. Whenever children are involved, it's best to err on the side of caution... closely monitor your son and the sheepie when they're together 'til you're certain this was just a fluke or isolated incident. And if at any time you feel there may be a bigger problem, be sure to discuss this with the rescue. A placement has got to be right for the dog and the entire family. Wishing you and your new sheepie the best, Jaci |
Valerie wrote: floofdog wrote: Bentley's attitude is a whole lot different when there is food around, even though he knows he's not getting any. Ahem. . . I am still waiting for you to post that photo of you retrieving your sandwich from Bentley's mouth. . . Me too! I've been working 12 hour days 7 days a week for a couple weeks now, plus I'm sick, which is NOT helping. I know I'll still be working this weekend, so hopefully next week. I owe Stacy pics too. Sorry to hijack! |
| I want to thank everyone who has responded about my new sheepie's behavior. Things are going very well. My son does not seem to be afraid of Daphne which I am very relieved about. I explained to him why I thought she had behaved the way she did and he seems to get it. I've told him that we cannot judge her personality by one aggressive action.
We are going to try many of this forum's suggestions. I think that the obedience classes, walking her and feeding her by my son will be a good start. I also like the suggestions of making clucking noises when trying to move her. My son likes the idea of moving up higher in the pack!!! I also enjoyed looking at the pictures of little Mopsy. I'm planning on posting pictures of Daphne very soon. She is gorgeous!!!! One of my cats is absolutely in love w/her. He rubs on her and walks under her belly. She then gives him plenty of sloppy sheepie kisses. My 2 girl cats swat at her but they do not have front claws. Anyway, I feel certain that Daphne will be a family member for many years to come. Beth |
| Are you sure he she bit him or did she hit him with a tooth? I know either way, your son was probably pretty shaken up but accidents definitely happen, too. My Komondor makes Wookie noises and swings his head around a lot and I've gotten hit in the face and nicked with teeth more times than I care to admit. It sounds worse than it really is and I thought perhaps your OES may have done something similar. Just a thought. |
sheepie'sHaveMyHeart wrote: I just adopted an 18 month old female OES from a resue organization.
She changed positions and was putting her head in my son's lap. He tried to move her and she snarled and tried to bite him. Beth This would concern me. Have you contacted the rescue organisation to see what they say about this? Was she in foster care, where she could have been tested and assessed in stressful situations? The big concern is because there is a trigger that set her off, and that remains still the unknown. Was she hurt? Afraid? Stressed being in the car so nervous and reacted defensively? Something made her react, and even if the bump or nip was an accident, the fact that she snarled meant that she was NOT OK with the situation. I would want to know more about why she was not OK and what would it take to eleviate that uneasiness from her. It would have been quite a different outcome if it was your son's friend sitting next to her. Likely she would have responded the same way, as 2 weeks is not really a long enough time for any real bonding or comfort level...so your son... a friend....it would have been all the same to her. I am not suggesting that she is a bad dog, but I am suggesting that you find out what the trigger was and then decide a plan of action to manage it in your living with her or work on desensitising her to it. I would much prefer to have a dog that has a predictable reaction, no matter what that reaction is, than a dog that is not predictable, even if the reaction is to a lesser degree. "6girls" made some good suggestions regarding a re-homed dog. Slow and easy does it. For a dog to react in that manner she felt threatened to some degree, and right now it is still unknown what she found threatening and why. Be vigilent and watchful for anything that you see that might not be quite right. |
| I bet the small mark on his nose was the result of a
tooth nicking his nose. I had not thought of that. I bet she was trying to bump him more than bite him. I do have her history from the rescue organization. She has only lived w/one family since she was purchased at 3 months old. They also have a 9 year old child. They left her at the vet to be spade and I picked her up from the vet 3 weeks ago. They said she had never shown aggressive behavior and was very good w/children. I think that my son must have moved her head in an uncomfortable way for her. She was also probably half asleep at the time. I am planning on working on their relationship. I will also always closely monitor them from now on. Except for this situation, she has always been extremely gentle w/everyone including children. Beth |
| I think it's great you're committed to making it work and will watch her closely. If you think about it from the dog's point of view, a new home is a stressful change. One day you're suddenly packed up and strangers now become your family... you're dropped into a foreign home where everything is different including smells, where you sleep, what and when you eat, where you potty, everything. Dogs love routine and they just need to be eased into a new one.
I hope you'll forgive some of us for being extra cautious... no one is saying she's a "bad" dog. It's just sometimes when a dog bites or even appears to have biten (especially when children are involved) the dog looses... meaning it's life. We all just want you to have a long and wonderful life together so training and giving her time to settle in by not pushing too hard/too fast is a good approach for everyone. Now I know I'm speaking for everyone in asking this questions... gotta picture? We'd LOVE to see your new baby  |
| Did anybody check on a medical reason for this? If she was changing positions when this happened, she may have a problem with a lump, or neck pain or bad teeth. Just one more thought on the subject.
Good luck and let's see some pictures!! |
| In addition to all the above great advice I wonder if she is stressed by riding in the car. Some dogs just don't like being in the car. If she had her head in your son's lap for security and he removed it she may have been overly stressed and nipped out of fear. Not acceptable behavior but given that she has undergone alot of changes recently perhaps understandable.
I would try to minimize new situations for her until you know she is well settled in your home. |
| WOW!!! Having a new sheepdog sure does take a lot of your time. I haven't had time to post a reply until today.
I have registered for obedience classes next month. Daphne still continues to not show agressive behavior. She seems to like to show my son attention. I'm still making sure that I am always around to make sure things go well. I have had my son feed her and give her treats. I think that he is moving up higher in the pack. I'm hoping to post pictures soon. I may give it a shot w/my husband's help this week-end. I continue to think that Daphne is a wonderful dog. I have learned that when dogs are involved w/children-you can never be too careful!!! Beth |
| You are absolutely right, when it comes to children and dogs you always assume the worst!!! You really have too, as much as we love them they are animals.
But I'm so glad to hear that things are going well  Obedience classes are a great place to start. |
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