|
|
|
| All of this info is available here on forum.oes.org | Hi Kevin,
My husband and I have just put our 15 year old "pound-sheepie-puppy" to sleep. Our loss is deep and unyielding. Sherwood was "my" dog, but he ended up greatly impacting my husband more. Sherwood was on Rimadyl, thyroid, allergy, and antibiotics (for a potential bladder tumor); and I made hamburger, rice and pasta for him every week for his stomach allergies. He needed a bath once a week and half way through the week for a quick wipe down. He had not been able to use the stairs for 4-5 years due to a herniated disk, which he did recover from, nearly.
I can tell you of two times in Sherwoods' life that I heard him cry in pain. The rest of the time, never a hint of pain crossed his handsome black lips. My vet said some very important things to me...Sherwood was tired and he wanted to be released from his crippled body. And yes, he was in pain, he just wouldn't let me know. It's just not their way to show the pain. Take the rose colored glasses off and really look at your sweetie. Are her eyes weary, have they lost their sparkle? Are you really just putting off the inevitable? You are the caretaker of his physical, as well as spiritual being.
When I said goodbye to him, I knew he was going to a better place. And I'll be honest with you, I have a lighter heart as a result of my decision to let him go. I didn't realize the stress I was under in trying to manage my dogs illnesses. We made the decision and without delay, the next day we took him to the vet. My husband and I were there with him to say goodbye; it's a really sad memory of him, but we did it for Sherwood.
We have decided to get another dog. Sherwood had such presence that the house is eriely quiet; I can't stand it. My husband wants another Sheepie. I am afraid to do it again.
I'll keep you in my thougts, best wishes to you.
Dana | |
| Oops, I forgot to say, the dogs do not bother the birds when they are caged (these are huge cages). They do lie down patiently at the foot of the cages and wait for the birds to throw food out for them, and that happens daily. Even though the cages have "aprons" or food guards, some of their food makes it to the floor.
One of my dogs has allergies, and after visits to canine allergists, I suspect that he is allergic to parrot "dander" -- that white sticky powder dandruff that collects where the birds are.
Best wishes and good luck | It's so wonderful that you rescued the baby.
Dogs with allergies often scratch their ears and rub their faces on walls, beds, etc. They may also lick their legs or bite their feet. You might ask your vet about that possibility.
Also, it's surprising how many chronic skin, ear, seizure and other problems with OES can be caused by low thyroid. Search the web for +Jean Dodds +thyroid to find some articles. The thyroid panel is about $100. and the best screening lab is either the Univ. of Mich. or Dr. Dodds facility in Calif. called HemoPet. It's worth a try if it comes to a last resort.
Good luck and best wishes | | Hi all, first time posting. I own twin black labs, female, 3 yrs. of age named Lucy and Ethyl. (Ha ha.) Ethyl was born with hip dysplasia, that was fixed. Soon after, she developed a yeast infection in her ears. We did the cleansing, but it never went away. To this day she is in horrid pain. She is a loving dog who's only thrill is to give "hugs." She cannot walk without keeping her head low, shaking back and forth constantly. We have gone to the vet repeatedly, and even he is baffled. No allergies, not responding to meds, no foreign bodies in the ear. Very black gunk, dried blood, extremely painful. We have sedated her twice for a cleansing that never helped, and cleanse her ear much to her chagrin daily. We hate to see her so hurt, and our next choice will have to be to put her down, although I really don't want to. This is the dog that screams in pain as we clean her ears, yet licks our hands to let us know she still loves us, even as we are the ones hurting her. We were wondering if anyone knew of dog tubes in ears? My nephew had tubes for drainage, and wondered if dogs had a similar procedure? Or maybe to just remove everything in her ears. Will leave her deaf, unfortunately, but if she can live a long and happy life I don't think she will hate us for long. Please, please help. Any information will be greatly appreciated. Thank you all for your time and concern. | Sorry to hear you're having problems!
Regarding allergies, have you and your vet totally eliminated a food allergy? In other words, did you take her off the dog food and start feeding her meat (or raw meat) to see if it was the grains in the dog food?
And, of course, if you already feed her BARF (Bones and Raw Food), then disregard this post! 
Going through Google, I hit upon an informative article on ear infections (they say that hypothyroidism can be a cause -- I never knew this!).
http://www.bestfriends.org/members/health/canineears1.htm
Hope this helps! There just *has* to be something that can be done -- besides putting her down! My heart goes out to you...
Suzanne | I'm sorry but I'm a little appalled that you want to *kill* a dog because he poops, chews and knocks things and kids over! Did you expect the dog to just "know" all the rules and to have little turds coming from a large breed? Come on! What have you been doing to train him? It has nothing to do with breed and lots to do with the right kind of training for the dog's personality. I don't know how old your kids are (and I am very sorry they got knocked over and hurt) but big dogs usually shouldn't be around little kids, unless you're always going to be around them to prevent accidents, and are willing to train the dog and the kids on how to act around each other.
With him rushing the gargage door: what have you done to train him *not* to rush when the garage door is opening?
Odor can come from the food you're feeding him. Often changing to a superior quality food or even feeding the dog "human" or raw food will eliminate the odor (and this will often make the stools smaller); he could have allergies.
I'm sorry for being rude but you're putting all the blame on the dog and are going to kill it just for acting like a dog! There are people here who have just lost their sheepies, and I hope they haven't read your post. There are lots of things that can be done with this dog but I gather from your post that you're not going to be willing to work with the dog. Please get the dog to a rescue organization where they'll match him up with someone who will take the time to train him.
Here's a direct link to rescue organizations: http://www.neoesr.org/oes-nat.htm
Again, sorry for being rude but I'm really upset with the thought of killing the dog for such reasons.
Suzanne | I didn't say we wanted to *kill* the dog. The shelters are full and I posted here to find alternatives to euthanizing. The shelter itself recommended the euthanizing route for legal reasons. They say we are required by law to divulge whether or not the dog has injured a child, and he has, even though it was an accident. They are prohibted by law to facilitate adoption of such an animal.
Zany wrote:
I'm sorry but I'm a little appalled that you want to *kill* a dog because he poops, chews and knocks things and kids over! Did you expect the dog to just "know" all the rules and to have little turds coming from a large breed? Come on! What have you been doing to train him? It has nothing to do with breed and lots to do with the right kind of training for the dog's personality. I don't know how old your kids are (and I am very sorry they got knocked over and hurt) but big dogs usually shouldn't be around little kids, unless you're always going to be around them to prevent accidents, and are willing to train the dog and the kids on how to act around each other.
With him rushing the gargage door: what have you done to train him *not* to rush when the garage door is opening?
Odor can come from the food you're feeding him. Often changing to a superior quality food or even feeding the dog "human" or raw food will eliminate the odor (and this will often make the stools smaller); he could have allergies.
I'm sorry for being rude but you're putting all the blame on the dog and are going to kill it just for acting like a dog! There are people here who have just lost their sheepies, and I hope they haven't read your post. There are lots of things that can be done with this dog but I gather from your post that you're not going to be willing to work with the dog. Please get the dog to a rescue organization where they'll match him up with someone who will take the time to train him.
Here's a direct link to rescue organizations: http://www.neoesr.org/oes-nat.htm
Again, sorry for being rude but I'm really upset with the thought of killing the dog for such reasons.
Suzanne |
| And yes, my child is okay (broken arm). Thanks for asking. Perhaps you would prefer I punish my child for allowing himself to be knocked over by the OES.
Zany wrote:
I'm sorry but I'm a little appalled that you want to *kill* a dog because he poops, chews and knocks things and kids over! Did you expect the dog to just "know" all the rules and to have little turds coming from a large breed? Come on! What have you been doing to train him? It has nothing to do with breed and lots to do with the right kind of training for the dog's personality. I don't know how old your kids are (and I am very sorry they got knocked over and hurt) but big dogs usually shouldn't be around little kids, unless you're always going to be around them to prevent accidents, and are willing to train the dog and the kids on how to act around each other.
With him rushing the gargage door: what have you done to train him *not* to rush when the garage door is opening?
Odor can come from the food you're feeding him. Often changing to a superior quality food or even feeding the dog "human" or raw food will eliminate the odor (and this will often make the stools smaller); he could have allergies.
I'm sorry for being rude but you're putting all the blame on the dog and are going to kill it just for acting like a dog! There are people here who have just lost their sheepies, and I hope they haven't read your post. There are lots of things that can be done with this dog but I gather from your post that you're not going to be willing to work with the dog. Please get the dog to a rescue organization where they'll match him up with someone who will take the time to train him.
Here's a direct link to rescue organizations: http://www.neoesr.org/oes-nat.htm
Again, sorry for being rude but I'm really upset with the thought of killing the dog for such reasons.
Suzanne |
| I am searching for an OES. My son (9yrs old) has some allergies and both his Dr. and our vet recommended an OES. My husband had OES growing up and loves the breed. We lost a pet after 20 years (Feb 2002) and are now ready to open our hearts and home to someone special. We live in Florida and have called pet stores, rescues, county dog control, etc. and cannot locate either a puppy, breeder, or older dog available for adoption. I would appreciate anyone's input on how to locate an OES.
Please reply to con10t@aol.com | Hello,
I am not a professional traner either, but I do attend training class with my 18 mo OES that has been an enjoyable experience and quite different from the usually obedience class. Our trainer Pat inveneted a new type of training collar. She calls it the Q collar. It simply looks like a little bone that fits on theb dogs flat collar. In this style of training, the dog wears 2 collars one collar is generally attached to a long line attached to a stationary object and the other collar is attached to a long leash. The correction is made by pulling the two collars apart. The dog if it wants to end the correction must end the behavior simply by stepping forward or following through on the command.
Teaching leave it in this matter is simple. Set the dog up with a double line one of course to a stationary object. Place a food item just beyond the dog and when the dogs does for it correct with the leash, give the command. The dog learns very quickly what the command means and decides to leave it alone.
My OES has several food allergies and I do not allow her to take food from people. This simple command has saved me from cleaning up many messes afterward.
The same idea can be applied whe visitors arrive. My OES is very social and would jump on anyone. I use a "settle rug" When visitors arrive she is to go to her rug and "wait" for a release. Again I used a double line with a stationary object to teach this. Another simple way to prevent the dog from jumping is to drag a leash. Step on the leash when you greet the person and the dog no longer can jump up.
The website http://quansaqcollar.com/ talks about Pat's training style and the Q-collar. She has some great insights to dogs and their behaviors and her focus is to teach a dog manners. She does a lot of rescue work and has used this collar and set up to see immediate results in her dogs. | | My sheepie puppy has just gotten over mange. So if I were you I would get the dog to the vet ASAP. We were told by one vet it was food allergies and when it got worse. We took him to a new vet and mange was diagnosed. He was dipped a couple of times and is OK now. Good luck. | Actually all autoimmune diseases are related. Abbi probably does not have it as severely as other dogs. It can affect different systems.
So far Abbi has allergies and skin or exocrine invovlement. Her kidneys, liver,endocrine, and other systems seem to be fine. She is anemic and her white blood cell count is high, but she seems to have more of an allergic response than a full blown case of AIHA, which usually includes the dogs own red blood cells destroying their own. That was not noted in the blood test and her packed cell volume was 30, which is ok. Seems normal dogs can have them up to 55. 30 is at the lower edge of normal.
If she isn't responding to the prednisone by Thursday, another set of blood test will be taken. She will be going into the vets once a month at least for the next 4 - 6 months for monitoring.
Because of her anemia and her skin problems she has to go to a better diet. This is hard since she has allergies to eggs and milk products. I put her on Nutro (Natural Choice) Adult large breed, because it has the highest protein content, highest fiber, and lowest fat (it also has dried eggs in it, but I cannot afford the only brand without eggs--its $2.50/lb and doesn't look like the newest bag on the shelf). The vets want to try to raise her protein levels, even though this is sometimes not the right way to go. If this is just a dietary problem ... with allergies playing a factor, well I will be sooo happy.
But 2/5 of the vets she has seen in the past week feel she would benefit from a prednisone treatment even if it is just allergies. All 5 agree a diet change is needed, but what a difference in recomendations? You hear about too many cooks spoiling the soup, but when you see it in action ... it is mind boggling.
Her cracked and peeling nose and change in hair and skin pigmentaton along with the white gums are the reason I am going with the heavy prednisone treatments along with the antibiotics. I also changed out her bowls to stainless steel in case she is allergic to plastic as suggested by one vet.
She likes to go for walks still, but since the prednisone doses she is more lethargic, her coat looks worse, and she drinks a lot!
Hopefully she will recover and this will just be a mild episode that goes into remission with careful management. Like only one vaccination at a time, the vets say they will board her even if she doesn't have all her vaccinations from now on. They will do a blood titer test if it is needed.
And no more of the topical flea repellant. In fact, flea and tick repellant may need to go down to a minimum.
I am also adding flax or fish oil to her food if she looks the least bit constipated. That has worked out pretty well. Add pumkin and unsalted broth to some of her food.
She loves the attention and she isn't licking her paws constantly any more. I am still oiling them up and putting booties on her before walks.
My husband makes jokes, but he came home to go to the vets yesterday.
Since her coat looks so bad, and she sort of shedding anyways, I am thinking of brushing her out, bathing her, and givng her a good trim---leave behind an inch or two. I am getting pretty good at trimming her, so I could get it all done in less than 3 hours.
My girls are helping so it isn't like I do everything, but fo some reason Abbi will only take the medicine from me. And she has to take 5 pills in the morning and night, and two at lunch and a topical 3x a day. Then theres the gelatin capsules in her food, as well as the flax o fish oil. It does seem to take up more time than you would think.
Thanks for your concern. I hope your dog stays in remission for years to come. This is miserable. | They put too much calcium in most of the puppy food. This causes lameness in large dogs.
Abbi couldn't walk by the time she was 6 months. I did not know whether it was all the vaccinations or her food. So I switched her to a well balanced adult food and did not go back for anothre vaccination until she was a year old. Within a week she was walking again.
I wish I had my old computer with the bookmarks for the studies I found on the effects of too much calcium on large dogs, but I cannot find it right now.
She was never in much pain that I knew of though? She just would look at me sadly and licked her paws a lot. Like she's doing right now ...
If you dog gets worse, let us know. My Abbi is a bit under the weather also. One vet thinks autoimmune, the othe allergies. I think it was a comination of the vaccinations and that Revolution I tried out. | Panosteitis is a self-limiting (will take care of itself)painful condition affecting one or more long bones in medium to large breed puppies. It is usually characterized clinically by lameness and by x-ray by high density of the bone marrow cavity. German shepherds predominantly aquire this disease. Theories on causes: allergies, metabolic problems, or endocrine aberations. No proof of any of these, but they have never isolated either a microbe or gene to explain the cause either. It may affect a single limb, shift limbs, or invovle all limbs. One of the reasons metabolic or allergeries are suspected is because it does get progressively worse without dietary changes.
A dog quits eating when it is painful to move. This could be due to the pain itself, the fact they cannot exercise, the fact if they do eat they then need to use the bathroom and that hurts when your legs hurt.
Cook some beef or chicken liver (boiling it is prefered). Mash it up in blender if possible and add it to some adult kibble. The liver is to stimulate appetite mostly. Get away from using egg or milk protein for a while, as this can cause stomach upsets you do not need to worry about at this time. You may even cook up a rice broth with liver to get the pup eating again. Make sure there's plenty of fiber, because lack of movement can cause impacted bowels.
It is quite common for the dog to lose its appetite with this disease.
Pain killers can be muscle relaxants and will make symptoms worse in some cases. Usually vets treat with an aspirin type pain killer and prednisone or another cortisoid for inflamation.
Prolong use of pain killers or cortisones can and will injure the pups intestines and lower its immune system, so alternative pain management is the prefered way to go, including massage and accupunture therapy, distraction therapy--such as taking the dog for walks in the wagon, alternating its toys, playing roll the ball, or trying to train it to do passive type tricks like to SPEAK, Shake, roll-over, ...
And it is an absolute must to move all affect limbs as often as possible to avoid muscle atrophy. The vet should gladly show you how this is done with a bit of massage therapy thrown in--like T touching. At least turn the pup every 4-6 hours to avoid bed sores too.
If you go through the maitenance require, the pup should recover by the time it is 10-12 months or sooner. As with any long term disease try to find some support--a relative who will watch the dog every once in a while. Find something good about the condition, such as having the dogs total attention. Put the pup on a piece of smooth cardboard or mat so that you can pull him around to be with you at all times. Any movement will be good for him. If you are leaving it at the vet's, pick it up on Friday and lug the pup around with you to socialize it over the weekend. Don't let it sleep with you and never place it where you have to step over him. Try to act like he's a s normal as possible. Groom him at least twice a week and give him rewards for doing it. Fool with his gums. Give him and you something to look forward to, some well-mannered companionship.
If you get the pup to eat, try to help it eliminate. Ask vet for pointers, as there is no way I am going to be able to explain all that may be entailed.
There's many reasons for lameness.
In my vet diagnosis book it says:
Lameness: Causes: (Growing dogs, 12 mos.)= 1. Osteochondrosis of the shoulder(s). Can move to hips.
2. Shoulder luxation. 3. Osteochrondosis of the elbows 4. Un-united aconeal process 5. Fragmented medial coronoid process. 6. Elbow incongruity. 7. Calcification of flexor or elbow muscle. 8. Asymetric growth. 9. Panosteitis 10. Hypertrophic osteodystrophy 11. Trauma to soft tissue, joint muscle, or bone. 12. Infection either ocal or systemic. 13. Nutitritional anamolies (too much protien, imbalance of ionic compounds <calcium, potasium, iron, ....).
Testing for the above is usually done by ruling things out. No fever, no infection. Normal blood work up, including blood types and size and shape= not an infection, not imbalance in chemicals. Thorough once over + not a trauma (which it doesn't sound like anyways), no spine or head damage = not neurologic, and so on. For all of the bone a joint diagnosis x-rays and imaging can eliminate. Then the last ditch diagnosis is cell fluid observation from joint fluids and biopsys of tissue affected.
A biopsy of tissue next to the bones can also rule out fungal, bacterial, or neoplasia infections. Biopsies are rarely performed due to the self-healing nature of the disease and the excellent prognosis over time.
I hope things turn around with time, Time did wonders for Abbi. She went through a real traumatic vaccine/chemical reaction this last month or two. She is just now returning to her normal Abbi-ness. Time does heal quite a bit. Hang in there! You in the midst one of Life's EXPERIENCEs. Persistence will always win out. | Big sis's hair will grow back if it is not being plucked out by the roots. Sure would help if Sis would just tell the pup to leave her face alone.
Have you thought about trimming her face so lil bro cannot get a mouthful. At least until you figure out a way to exercise out some of his puppy exuberance?
You may want to join into the play with fetch or chase for an item carried in the mouth(the dog's, not yours. You just throw it without any commands and run). The younger one will probably become the one wanting to be chased and it could help re-direct his energies. And give elder sis a way to play without getting a TRIM.
Keep an eye on the hair's regrowth. Sis could have thyroid problems which does manifest with hair loss. Mite infection and allergies can also be a cause of hair loss. Just observe and make sure it is all lil bro's fault and not a health problem. She's almost 2 years old, so she is starting her adult coat and it may be just a coincidence. Is she losing coat anywhere else or has she lost a bit more than usual in the last month? | In Australia they are breeding standard poodles with labadours. They call them Labadoodles. It was in the paper today. They are supposed to be less allergy-causing than labs, so they are using them as seeing eye dogs and service dogs to those handicapped with animal allergies.
OES also (like poodles) have hair that balls up in clumps instead of shedding like a lab's, so it is also suppose to be EASIER on the allergies. As a dog ages, its hair and saliva changes so that even the best anti-allergic dogs out there do become somewhat of a problem in their later years.
Guess its the difference between say grass pollen and vinca pollen. Grass and wild weeds are much worse than most of the hybrid plants found in flowerbeds. But they all can cause problems.
Bad news is, even if you find your lab a new home, you will still be living with his hair, dander, and saliva. You would have to thoroughly clean and replace carpet, walls, ceilings, air vents, and furniture to actually get away from the allergens. And if you did that and bathed and brushed your lab more, you would probably do just as well as getting a new dog.
OES are easy to fall in and OUT of love with, as they are a very exuburiant and head strong breed. And so intelligent with a memory like an elephant.
Labs are more biddable or obedient. Thats why they are being bred with the biddable and intelligent standard poodle for service dogs. OES is more of a boisturious, let's party type of dog. I would guess it would depend on what the OES was mixed with and what kind of dog you are looking for....but you would still have to get rid of ALL of your old allergens first (and not just your lab). | My boyfriend is allergic to just about everything, all cats, a lot of dogs, pollen, dust, etc. He has never had a problem with my sheepie. Although my sheepie has allergies (but he's not allergic to my boyfriend  ). | Espero escribe que bien a tu. I have forgotten my Spanish!
Danik,
Most of the people on this forum favor shaving, but only because we love to play withour dogs outside in the heat and muck. Most of our forum members who live in Canada or UK DO NOT think shaving is appropriate. Why own a sheepie if you are going to shave it?, they say. Well, I owned a standard poodle and shaved it all the time. If you tell the dog how gorgeous they are, they will not mind being shaved. And it really does speed up grooming and bathing.
Even those who don't shave, have admitted to shaving the stomach area, including under their arms. Also trimming up under their anus and along the inside of both back legs helps a lot. I also shave under Abbi's ears, so they lay flat and I don't have to worry about pulling on her hair there.
I started Abbi with a puppy clip and shaving her underside, inside rear legs and under her ears when she was 6 months old. Their hair texture keeps changing until they are about two years old. The worse change was about at 8 months old. Keeping her hair length to less than 2 inches sure made it easier to play with her. And I had to bathe her then, because my eldest was still living with us and has severe asthma and allergies. Everything had to be cleaned, and having a shorter haired Abbi was nice.
I do not think you even have to worry about them sunburning their stomach unless you leave Pisco outside a lot and he sleeps on his back (which Abbi does inside, but not outside). For some reason Abbi will only sleep on her back next to our couch. Maybe she likes the smell of leather?
Go ahead and try shaving his belly and see if it is better or not. It grows back in a few months, so it isn't permanent. Don't shave his head though. That hair doesn't grow back as fast or as nice sometimes. I regret shaving Abbi's head last year, but it is finally filling in again.
Let me know if you have more specific questions. | Males don't stop growing until about 18 months. They beef up as they aquire muscle from 1-2 years of age.
I am 5'7" and Abbi is well below my waist. The vet sys she is an average sized female at her perfect weight and conformation, except her tail was docked incorrectly and the ends of her hair turn brown, but the vet said that was due to aging or allergies.
Different dogs develop differently and grow to different sizes just like people.
From your photos in Ruidoso he looks nice and big and healthy to me. He is much bigger than Abbi.
Maybe we should have a Texas get together in Austin and compare dogs. Or just let them run and play at Barton Springs park. That would be fun! I think you would be surprised how much they vary yet still seem the same.
By the way, since your waist may be higher or lower than mine, why not measure him from his toes to his shoulders (underneath the hair). Abbi stands at 24" measured like that and is 72 lbs. today.
Also go look at that new poll under Chit Chat I think. We are comparing our dogs by filling in similar information under the topic http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=554.
Go ahead and add your dog to the growing collection. Then we can just refer to that topic to remember details about each others dogs. Lil Walty was the brainchild of this great idea! | Abbi licks her muzzle and her front legs constantly when I do not keep them shaved. Where ever she licks (on white hair) it turns pinkish beige. I asked the vet about this and he said it was because of high protein molecules in the saliva. He claimed that when a dog has allergies these proteins get concentrated and cause the pinkish discolorization. He also said that when a dog is allergic to flea residue that would be one of the very many causes of the allergic reaction that would cause the saliva to discolor hair. When they drink, it drips down their chest, which discolors after a while.
Abbi is an indoor dog and doesn't come into contact with fleas very often, so at the vet's and others recomendations I switched her to Nutro for large dogs. She still seems to be leaving the discolorization, but her nails and skin improved and she does have normal BM's.
There's allergy meds available, but they lower the immune system and have to be given constantly. When it really bothers me, I wash It off with a rag, water, and some lemon juice. It doesn't all come off, but it looks better. Some people use hydrogen peroxide, but that seems a bit drastic (and not too good for the hair).
As mentioned ealier, she doesn't lick places I keep shaved down to about an inch or so much. She generally does most of her licking on the longer hair, so I just shave her muzzle most times.
Just keep up with his skin and nail health. Treating allergies tends to be just treating symptoms, unless you can figure out what is causing them.
good luck! I am still working on figuring that out.
This vet has been known t be wrong, but so far the discolorization does coincide with where her saliva and mucus hits.
By the way I live down here too. Wonder if it is in the air (pollen, smog?) |
|
 |
|
|
|
