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| All of this info is available here on forum.oes.org | Tonight Merlin and I will be taking our first Puppy Kindergarden Class. I surfed the net and found a very reputable trainer whom the papers refer to as the "dog whisperer". This is due to his success with even the most aggressive or dogs with behavior problems. Not that Merlin has any of these behaviors as he's just a sweet little boy but I think training of any sort helps prevent this.
The book: The Dog Whisperer: A Compassionate, Nonviolent Approach to Dog Training, by Paul Owens, Norma Eckroate
Cesar's Way : The Natural, Everyday Guide to Understanding and Correcting Common Dog Problems (Hardcover), by Cesar Millan, Melissa Jo Peltier
People Training for Dogs, Cesar Milan's DVD
Puppy Kindergarden will teach the sit,down,stay, heel and one or two other things. Most importantly it's to socialize the dog early in life with other people and dogs.
Will let you know how things progress and will pass on any helpful tips I may aquire.
Marianne, Merlin,Shaggy,Blue, Paris,Daisy,Asia and Lil Girl (didn't want to leave any of them out)  | |
| | You might like to check out this book by an English breeder/ trainer The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell . She found inspiration in Monty Roberts (The horse whisperer) and devised a humane training system that seems to be both fast and effective if you follow the simple rules. Her books are easy reading and very interesting. Her system revolves around relieving a dog of alpha responsibilties thereby allowing it to be a happy and subordinate pack/ family member. Best of luck for the future. Simon, Lisa, Phoebe & girls. | have you ever watched "the dog whisperer" on the national geographic channel? it seems exactly like what you need! he basically says the same thing every episode - walk your dog every day and YOU are the pack leader, he's is a dog first, not your child. Anyhoo, maybe if you live close enough you could even call him to come help you. He works miracles!
Cesar's Way : The Natural, Everyday Guide to Understanding and Correcting Common Dog Problems (Hardcover), by Cesar Millan, Melissa Jo Peltier
People Training for Dogs, Cesar Milan's DVD
The Dog Whisperer: A Compassionate, Nonviolent Approach to Dog Training, by Paul Owens, Norma Eckroate | Hi! Most of us on this forum would not recommend using any sort of "shock" collar on any type of dog- even one known for aggressive tendencies, like a pit bull. I would first suggest talking to your breeder about youir puppy's behavior, and see if he/she has any suggestions for you. Try to steer yourself away from any pain inducing training techniques- go to puppy classes, get the book "dog whisperer" The Dog Whisperer: A Compassionate, Nonviolent Approach to Dog Training, by Paul Owens, Norma Eckroate
Cesar's Way : The Natural, Everyday Guide to Understanding and Correcting Common Dog Problems (Hardcover), by Cesar Millan, Melissa Jo Peltier
People Training for Dogs, Cesar Milan's DVD
look for some pitbull specialty forums or discussion lists too. At this age your puppy is still a "baby" think of it as an infant- you wouldn't shock your infant because she is crying for her 2 am feeding- you'd get up and feed her  Puppy isn't going to sleep through the night yet, and at 8 weeks is probably really missing her littermates.
Hopefully, some other members may have advice on helping keep your baby quiet at night, and how frequently little ones at that age will wake up for potty outings, etc. I hope you and your new puppy have many years of happiness ahead of you!
Karen | At first I was looking and said "I don't see any dogs in the picture" but upon closer inspection "Oh, they are glued to his head & feet!". That is so funny the way they are sleeping with him. Maybe you have a "dog whisperer" in the making.
Cesar's Way : The Natural, Everyday Guide to Understanding and Correcting Common Dog Problems (Hardcover), by Cesar Millan, Melissa Jo Peltier
People Training for Dogs, Cesar Milan's DVD | Has anyone seen the Dog Whisperer on National Geographic (Cesar Millan)
I love this show!!!!!!!!!!!
He is just great when it comes to helping dogs with problems. It's not so much training the dog, but training the owner.
If you have not seen it, try to watch!!
Cesar's Way : The Natural, Everyday Guide to Understanding and Correcting Common Dog Problems (Hardcover), by Cesar Millan, Melissa Jo Peltier
People Training for Dogs, Cesar Milan's DVD | Joyce,
First let me say, I'm sorry about this! It can be very unsettling and I hope things get back to normal soon.
I would be very concerned about his time in the kennel and how he was handled. I know this is your Vet - but maybe they aren't properly equipped to deal with long term guests. Presley acted very similar when returning from a kennel stay once. It was very upsetting to say the least.
I think with all that has gone on with your family and George in the past few weeks - it all may have just gotten too stressful.
I don't think the advise of squirting him when he growls is appropriate. I'm not sure how the rest of the training has gone - but positive reinforcement training is something you should look into. Squirting him or punishing him for this behavior isn't going to help - it may make him worse. I would speak to someone who provides positive reinforcement training and also - a group class will be better for him so he can become socialized, etc. Punishment type training can often backfire - especially if a dog may be proned to aggression. I would suggest getting the book, The Dog Whisperer: A Compassionate, Nonviolent Approach to Dog Training, by Paul Owens, Norma Eckroate.
Cesar's Way : The Natural, Everyday Guide to Understanding and Correcting Common Dog Problems (Hardcover), by Cesar Millan, Melissa Jo Peltier
People Training for Dogs, Cesar Milan's DVD
He could not feel well - that's a real possibility. I would be concerned about his illness following the Vets - it seems he may have picked up something or it could have been the stress (which if it was that stressful - it may account for his behavior too).
Try not to alienate him from the family - even though you will need to be careful with him and the children. He may grow more jealous and act out if he is alienated. This could all just be adding to his stress - with the addition of the baby, etc. and I'm sure your house is not as calm as usual.
I would recommend speaking to someone about the behavior and positive training asap. You can contact Grannie Annie from NEOESR (grannie.annie@neoesr.org) - I'm sure she'd be more than happy to offer you some guidance.
Best of Luck. I'll keep you in my thoughts!
Kristen | My husband tried to surprise me the other day when he went to stock up on things for our furbabies. It is so funny to see us go in there. It is my hubby and I, our 2 kids, our 2 sheepies, and Kiara kitty in a pet carrier that you wear....LOL We go in gracefully though....LOL Wow, I am getting off topic....LOL
Anyway, hubby thought that Kristen recommended
The Dog Whisperer: A Compassionate, Nonviolent Approach to Dog Training, by Paul Owens, Norma Eckroate
and picked it up for me. I laughed and told him thank you, and let him know a few days later that it was actually
The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell .
The important thing is he tried. LOL In my opinion the book was great for the basics and for the first time puppy owner I give it 2 paws up.
Stormi and co.
Try these too:
Cesar's Way : The Natural, Everyday Guide to Understanding and Correcting Common Dog Problems (Hardcover), by Cesar Millan, Melissa Jo Peltier
People Training for Dogs, Cesar Milan's DVD | Thank you, everyone, for the helpful advice.
If I catch him in the act, I say NO sharply and get him outside. I never get upset or scold him if I find it after the fact. I have been cleaning up adult puddles (strays and rescues) for years and I have my rug shampooer cocked and ready LOL.
I guess I'm a little nervous because I've never had a puppy and I don't want to screw him up. I've taken in a few damaged dogs through the years, and I don't want to be the cause of any problems for Ben. As it is, the other two dogs don't like him and I am always closely supervising their interactions.
I am reading both
The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell and
The Dog Whisperer: A Compassionate, Nonviolent Approach to Dog Training, by Paul Owens, Norma Eckroate
but I couldn't find anything about this particular problem. But if you experienced OES puppy people say it's to be expected, that's good enough for me. I will just be patient and consistant.
Thanks again. |
Ben's Mom wrote:
Thank you, everyone, for the helpful advice.
If I catch him in the act, I say NO sharply and get him outside. I never get upset or scold him if I find it after the fact. I have been cleaning up adult puddles (strays and rescues) for years and I have my rug shampooer cocked and ready LOL.
I guess I'm a little nervous because I've never had a puppy and I don't want to screw him up. I've taken in a few damaged dogs through the years, and I don't want to be the cause of any problems for Ben. As it is, the other two dogs don't like him and I am always closely supervising their interactions.
I am reading both The Dog Listener and The Dog Whisperer but I couldn't find anything about this particular problem. But if you experienced OES puppy people say it's to be expected, that's good enough for me. I will just be patient and consistant.
Thanks again. |
[Lord, let me be half the person my dog thinks I am | I like the # 3 combination also but as Willowsprite mentioned without hitting. I will however put a dog down on its side with alpha 'excuse the pun' speed and force, there is no question about who is the boss. In thsi instance the dog has to know who the boss is. I also very much agree you must use preventative measures beforehand i.e. positive training.
Have any of you guys seen Cesar Millan's 'The Dog Whisperer Show'? I basically agree with his method 90%
Cesar's Way : The Natural, Everyday Guide to Understanding and Correcting Common Dog Problems (Hardcover), by Cesar Millan, Melissa Jo Peltier
Cesar Millan's DVDs
People Training for Dogs, Cesar Millan's personal DVD!!
Dog Whisperer With Cesar Millan - The Complete First Season (2004) DVD Box Set
Dog Whisperer With Cesar Millan - Aggression (2004)
Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan - Volume 1 (2004)
Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan - Volume 2 (2004)
Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan - Stories from Cesar's Way (2004) | Hi,
I haven't read the article that you are referring to so can't comment on that. I do believe in the wolf pack mentality however, and the Alpha mentality. I have often (and in my pet talks for the Humane Society) equated the dog mentality on what takes place in a wolf pack. I see it happening daily at the dog park ...one dog always emerges as the leader or Alpha amongst each other. Ironicially in a wolf pack if the leader is deemed to be too mean or aggressive the others in the pack will turn on him and oust him. They respect leadership, but that doesn't necessairily mean an Alpha has to be mean. I don't believe in coersion either for training, as I've always believed gentleness and love gets things achieved far more than aggression.
I think the most common problem people have is giving dogs human like thoughts and basing it on how people think, when they think like dogs. Just last night on the Letterman show was the Dog Whisperer saying the same thing.
I do agree with you however, that dogs are family members and are to be treated that way. Still, I saw how when Shaggy was alive she was Alpha to Blue and he accepted it. I see it with my three dogs now as Merlin has emerged as Alpha amongst my three and the other two follow his lead. I think in a one dog household it's not as easy to see it occuring.
I, in turn have to be Alpha to Merlin as he would be forever counter surfing or chasing the cats and the others would follow suit if I didn't correct him. They have to have rules or there would be chaos in a household. Shaggy on the other hand, would never allow Blue or any other dog to chase the cats or to take food off the counters...they followed her lead. She was a great Alpha dog in the household and as a result the entire house and all the dogs were far calmer when she was alive.
Merlin at 15 months is in my opinion too young to have the Alpha role but Blue didn't challenge him at 15 years old and Panda was the newest addition to the already established household. There may still be a shift in the future with Panda eventually taking over. I hope so, as he's far calmer and better behaved and I'd like Merlin to take his lead.
Being Alpha is dog life means they are the leader and the others follow their leadership and rules. Humans should be the Alpha amongst the dogs as the dogs respect and follow their rules too or else their may be problems in the household if the dog thinks he is boss. Alpha means being fair but firm in establishing the quidelines of the household...just like we do with our kids. They are part of our family too but we don't let them rule the roost so to speak.
I've always felt much more comfortable with trainers that were kind than those that believed you have to completely dominate. On the other hand, just like kids some need a firmer hand than others. My first child was so easy while my second I often joke if he'd been my first I would probably have never had more children!! ha Ha  Please don't misunderstand either as I don't believe in hitting or scolding but some just need a firmer hand than others. Positive Reinforcement is by far the best method with two or four legged creatures.
That's just my opinion on the subject as I mentioned I haven't read the article but would like to see it.
Marianne and the boys | Congrats on puppy!
Train the basics right form the begining, you will have your hands full with crate training and potty training, but use every opportunity to reinforce good behaviours right from the start.
We had good luck with Chelsea by working on 'sit' and 'get down'(or 'off' as some prefer) - we also started with good habits on the walks right away, making her sit at corners and wait for a release, waiting nicely while the leash was attached. We also had VERy good luck with making her wait for her food and not attacking us as we put it down. She had to sit and 'wait' for a few seconds until we said 'okay', she does this automatically now. Discouraging bad behaviours at a young age is appropriate too. Let the puppy know what is off limits (furniture, dangerous things), discourage nipping, etc. They 'get it' and they will continue to get it if you discourage bad behavious by replacing it with a distraction and then reniforcing the positive behaviour. For instance, whenever Chelsea would pick up a shoe, I would hand her a tug toy instead, she usually dropped the shoe and grabbed her toy, only to be rewarded by a few minutes of a game of 'tug'. When she really wants our attention she runs and gets a toy for us to play with instead of grabbing something and running with it.
Just some ideas, we read a book called The Dog Whisperer that was really helpful, I also firmly believe that a puppy is a lot like a toddler (human) you can teach them things right away, but it needs to be positive, fun, the training you choose needs to be 'soft' and casual, otherwise you will lose their attention and perhaps do more damage by setting up training as 'no fun'.
Good Luck.
Up | I just wanted to say thanks for all the positive reinforcement. I feel a lot better now and have some steps to take to make me feel even more confident (I just ordered The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell and
The Dog Whisperer: A Compassionate, Nonviolent Approach to Dog Training, by Paul Owens, Norma Eckroate).
I have about 6 weeks until we get the puppy, so I still have time to research.
Now my next big task is talking my husband into crating! He is very much into letting the dog have the run of the house, which I don't mind once it's trained. Every dog he's ever owned had the run of the house, but I don't think he's had a puppy since he was a kid (selective memory on the destruction a puppy can create). All the other dogs were housebroken when he got them.
Thanks again. I'll let you know how things progress! | Sounds like a case of the vet having seen only one dog and that one didn't like going to the vet. I am going with nuture not nature. Because you are worried here is what I would do: Watch the dog whisperer on the national geographic station, look around on this site and others and read all you can about training and behaviour, become an amature expert. With that your worries will be far less. I personally don't believe there are mean dogs, I believe the owners have allowed the wrong behaviors. Not on purpose mind you but because of a lack of experience and education. If I was you I would I would ask for my money back and get a beagel or a small breed of some sort. I don't mean this in a bad way though, a sheepdog requires about three hours per week of brushing and another hour or so to bath them, not so much if you keep them clipped, but that takes 3 hours or so every 3 months or will cost you around $100. They are big and need allot of exercise also so you have to walk them and they do like people so you have to teach them not to jump on people and not to chew on their arms. You seem to be a thoughtful person so I am sure what ever path you take you will be fine, because you will not get the sheepdog unless youare sure you can handle them. By the way I think a sheepdog is the best combination of traits of any dog, but I also like dobermans, begals, maltese, on and on, so on and so on.
One more thought, any vet that thinks all of one breed is one way is simply wrong, it just doesn't work that way.
Have fun | Cesar Millan is my favorite trainer he also is called the Dog Whisperer and was on Opera last night. His show the Dog Whisperer is on the national geographic channel. He has a book coming out in July.
Cesar's Way : The Natural, Everyday Guide to Understanding and Correcting Common Dog Problems (Hardcover), by Cesar Millan, Melissa Jo Peltier
People Training for Dogs, Cesar Milan's DVD | Some years ago, I took a series of vet tech courses in college taught by a wonderful vet named Dr. Irv Herling. He taught his students that , at night, a puppy belongs at the side of your bed in a box lined with something soft. He explained it like this: in their wild state, if a puppy gets lost from the pack, he will howl, wimper and bark. This enables an older member of the pack, usually the mother, a means to locate him and bring him back into the fold. If your pup starts to whine in the night, just put your hand down and touch him, and he knows he is not alone. This helps form a strong bond between you and your dog.
I know some folks don't like dogs sleeping in the bedroom with them, but many experts, including the author of The Dog Whisperer, recommend it. I have always taken Dr. Herling's advice, and I have never had a puppy, no matter how young, keep me up. Sure, I had to get up for feedings and pottying, but at all other times the puppy slept.
Eight weeks is awfully young. I've never had any real luck training a pup until about 16 weeks. I know it can be frustrating, but if you could lower your expectations for a little while, you might be able to relax and things could go a lot better.
As far a shock collars, I once attempted to use one on a rescue Sheltie who, I swear, barked when a leaf dropped in San Francisco (we live in Baltimore). It didn't do a thing. She would bark right through the shock. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. (We later learned that a shot with a spray bottle worked much better and was much kinder).
Don't lose heart. Before you know it, your pup will be all grown up and these issues a memory. | Bailey's Mom--so is it making Bailey think that your husband is eating kibble too (with the nuts)? Hmmm...interesting.
It is just such chaotic behavior that it would be nice to have it stopped. He is definitely not agressive as far as we can tell during his feeding time and it is strange because the cats generally leave him alone and have never been in the kitchen with him during a meal, so I can't imagine it is a food protection thing.
I haven't looked at the Dog Whisperer yet, but I will think about it...
I swear, with Barney, it's one issue after another... 
Cesar's Way : The Natural, Everyday Guide to Understanding and Correcting Common Dog Problems (Hardcover), by Cesar Millan, Melissa Jo Peltier
People Training for Dogs, Cesar Milan's DVD | I have to agree with the rest. Find a new vet. It doesn't sound like they are familiar with the breed or interested in caring for him. You might contact your breeder for a vet recommendation.
On our first puppy visit the vet warned me that they "can", not "will" be aggressive if not properly socialized, but it was presented along with the other pros and cons of owning a sheepdog. I think she was doing her job to make sure for Mojo's sake I knew what to expect. She never said automatically he was going to be a biter. Puppies nip and chew. They can't help it, it is who they are.
What makes the difference is how you handle it. I haven't read "The Dog Listener" yet, but I'm in the middle of "The Dog Whisperer" and have found it's techniques very helpful.
Good luck with your new guy and welcome to the forum. What’s his name and do you have pictures yet? | Introducing Maggie (Dame Margaret Reginald). Back in early June I posted a notice in the rescue forum about a 2 year old female in St. Louis, in need of a home. I was notified by the breeder - same as Barney's -- indeed Barney and Maggie have the same mother -- that the owner had recently undergone several back operations and was no longer able to care for the dog. Currently the dog was being kept by a friend of the owner who happened to live within five miles of me. [Since both dogs are celibate -spayed/neutered- perhaps I should refer the them as Brother Barney and Sister Maggie]
I have always been a one dog owner and was apprehensive about owning a pack!. Would I have time to adequately care for each of them with daily grooming and walks? Could I avoid playing favorites? Would the two dogs get along? Etc., etc. The dog was supposedly in good health and current on her shots. I emailed several of you to get your input on what I might be getting into, and received much good advice. So what the heck, I guess it wouldn't hurt to drive out there and look at her. I called the "friend " and made an appointment to see her Friday evening, June 17. Elle, as her former owner had named her, was as friendly as a sheepie could be, although quite dirty and smelly, with mats in her puppy cut. I spoke briefly with the lady about feeding schedule and type of housing she was used to, and was told she stayed outside 24/7 during the month that she had her, with her beagle and basset hound, and they got along together. I felt sure I could do better, and made a date for the following evening to bring Barney along so they could meet on common ground - the culdesac in front of her house. I thought I was very clear to the lady that I intended to take her with me after the introductions. However the following day, the lady called me to say she had to leave town Monday and if I didn't take the dog she was going to turn it over to a rescue center. 
The following evening we (my son and I) met the lady. The dogs seemed to be civil to one another, and after a brief stay we left with Elle in Gerry's PU and Barney in mine. The lady never volunteered to show me the dogs' environment, but I question whether Elle was allowed to run with the other dogs or was penned up. When they brought her out, she strained on her leash as if she never had a bit of obedience training. Turns out she walks like a champ. When I go she goes, when I stop she stops, when I turn she turns on a dime. I think she was just glad to get out of there.
I think I'm gonna like it here!
Meeting Barney was a different story however. After more intros at home we let them both off leash. Barney wanted to play; she wanted to show him who's boss. She snapped at him, Barney wouldn't back down, and the fur began to fly. Once we got them separated, I realized I had a problem that I didn't know how to deal with. I looked for help in the Dog Whisperer and several other books. Did I have an aggression problem or should I just let them fight it out. Again I bugged several of you and am most grateful for the suggestions received.
For your information, Barney, I'm the Boss!
By chance I found out that one of my associates (Kris) at the store had a degree in animal behavior, trained dogs for agility competition and raised Great Pyranees and Cockers. I shared with her the situation and with her guidance started playing a "hot dog" game, where I'd hook one's leash to a post in the basement, while walking the other on a leash around the perimeter, then stop within striking distance of the tied up dog, ask them to sit and then give them a piece of hot dog. Three times with one, then change places and 3 times with the other. Within a week I was able to have them lying down nose to nose, with the leash of the one I was walking laying on the floor. How long would I have to do this? I still wanted to know whether I had an aggression problem or whether eventually the two could learn to play together. I asked Kris if she would come over and evaluate the situation.
Last Sunday evening she and Peter, her husband, came over and spent an hour with the dogs. She brought along about a pound of her homemade treats and began working with the dogs; first on leash, then off leash. Within 15 minutes she had them behaving. Like the author of "Dog Whisperer" She established herself as boss right from the start. Then she had the uncanny nack of anticipating when either dog was inclined to challenge the other and would nip it in the bud with a "sit" and a treat. Her evaluation of the situation: Barney is a playful pup, Maggie is a domineering "bitch." 
Using her techniques, I have been able to get them to be civil to each other as long as I'm there in charge:
Peace at Last
So that's where the dogs are at presently. While I still can't leave them unattended together, we've come along way. As for walking, they do quite well, Barney on my left, Maggie on my right. Oh, by the way: Elle/Maggie? Well the former owner never registered the dog, in fact the signed registration application from the breeder was still in the folder given to me, so I registered her as Maggie - a name I preferred. As for current on her shots, she was a year overdue. Except for the dominance thing, she is a real lady. And she loves my 4 month old granddaughter.
Maggie meets Ryan
Oh: and one more sidebar. The breeder was so concerned about "her" dog, she arranged to stop by to see how she was doing. We spent an hour and a half together, most of the time she was playing with the two dogs. Then had lunch together. I've owned pedigreed dogs all my life - all purchased from breeders; this is the first time a breeder showed so much interest in her dogs |
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