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| All of this info is available here on forum.oes.org | | You might like to check out this book by an English breeder/ trainer The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell . She found inspiration in Monty Roberts (The horse whisperer) and devised a humane training system that seems to be both fast and effective if you follow the simple rules. Her books are easy reading and very interesting. Her system revolves around relieving a dog of alpha responsibilties thereby allowing it to be a happy and subordinate pack/ family member. Best of luck for the future. Simon, Lisa, Phoebe & girls. | |
| My Merlin is like Cooper on a walk, except he doesn't bark. I am reading an excellent book The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell and from what I have read in the book, Merlin thinks he is Alpha of our pack, and feels the need to protect us and at the same time that is too much responsibility for a pup(1 year old) to handle.
If I were to leave Merlin and he was not in his crate, I am sure that he would have the same reaction as Cooper does when you leave him. Merlin doesn't freak when he is in his crate and we leave because I think he is not sure if we are home or not. I put him in his crate for quiet time every day, sometimes I go out and sometimes I just need to get the floors washed LOL. His crate is in my bedroom and he can't see if I leave or not. Even if I don't leave, I open the door as if I am leaving.(just like you did)
The separation anxiety is not because the dog thinks "Oh no my mom and kids are gone" but rather the dog thinks he is in charge of the house and thinks "Oh no the pack I am responsible for is gone" And the subsequent beserk greeting you get upon return is because they are glad their charge has come home, not that oh I missed my mom. It's a different take on the same thing. What I have read so far is that upon return, I am to let him out of his crate but don't greet him, don't look him in the eye, but just go about my business for about 5 minutes. And then make Merlin sit for a pet and then ask if he has to go out. Since the kids are home on break this week, they are helping me with this.
There are other tasks that we have to do to remind Merlin that he is not Alpha. Seems strange but it is working. We have to put his dinner bowl on the counter, then put a plate of people food like crackers next to the dog dish, make his dinner and then each of us has to go to the bowl and eat some of the crackers of the plate. The dog thinks you are eating out of his bowl-crunchy crackers sound like crunchy kibble! After everyone has eaten their cracker and finished it, then the bowl is put down on the floor for the dog to eat his meal. If he doesn't eat his meal after a few minutes, take the bowl away and the dog is to get no treats and is fed again in a few hours doing the same procedure. | I suggest bringing her to a training class - train her, socialize her and give her some confidence at the same time! Positive Reinforcement training only!!!
Although it hasn't gotten to the point of aggression - it could be headed in that direction and you definately want to resolve it asap.
When you are walking her - bring some treats along and when she is approaching a stranger - tell her to sit & stay and to be quiet - reward her for her good behavior.
Lastly, your behavior may trigger her reaction - if you are worried about how she is going to react - she may sense that and become fearful or terroritorial. Try and relax and assure her that it's okay!
Two great books I've read about dog behavior are:
The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell
and
The Dog's Mind: Understanding Your Dog's Behavior, by Bruce Fogle, Anne B. Wilson
I highly recommend them!
Best of Luck! | You'll find that the book
The Dog's Mind: Understanding Your Dog's Behavior, by Bruce Fogle, Anne B. Wilson
will help tremendously when you get your puppy! You should also read
The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell
another great one! | Ok, I'll put up links....
The Dog's Mind: Understanding Your Dog's Behavior
The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation
Are these the ones, Kristen? | so the new joke in the house is "shh! youll wake him up!" or "oh great... you pissed him off"... now that we can see his eyes we can definitely see the dirty looks hes giving us !
but i just bought The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell , training starts monday, and im calling on monday to make an appointment with the behavior specialist at the vet... PLUS the little monster is all tuckered out from running through the field out back(which earned him 20+ burrs.. i cant imagine if he were in full coat... yikes) so things are looking up! | How old is Miles? I would get him enrolled in an obedience class ASAP (positive reinforcement). The peeing could be a sign of dominance - and so can the aggressive behavior. It will help to get him in training - and the socialization with a group class is crucial to his learning.
There may be someone in your area that could recommend a good trainer - it is important that you use only positive reinforcement (praise, treats, etc.). I would also recommend the book The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell .
Good Luck! He is a cutie!
Kristen |
Luna wrote:
Luna is our first OES and we find her to be very agreesive at times. The rougher you play with her the rougher she gets. She constantly wants to really bite hard. When I plsy with her all i do is roll in the grass with her and try to push her away(playfully) and she gets very agressive. At times she can be really calm and all of a sudden she just changes to agressive.
She constantly bites your feet and clothes ..We tell her NO and she just gets worst.
What do we do. |
How old is Luna? Is she spayed?
I would enroll in a positive reinforcement obedience class! Depending on her age - you may want to see if there is a medical cause to this behavior (hypothyroidism, etc.). I would not recommend any "rough play" - she doesn't know when to stop being rough and you may be confusing her. I would also recommend reading the book The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell !
Kristen | Erin,
Sorry to hear you've been through this experience with Sammy. Unfortunately, it is not so uncommon for dogs to react this way with children - particularly when they are down on their "level". Children - being at "eye level" with the dog - become someone to become "alpha" over. Sammy probably became threatened (in his mind) and was warning the child to "back off". Regardless of why he did it - it's unacceptable and obviously very dangerous to put him in this situation again. I would recommend a refresher course in obedience (positive reinforcement only). You will need to always be careful with Sammy and children in the future - regardless of how he behaves - you never know when this could happen again and next time it could be worse. My sister is going through the same thing with her 3 year old Basset Hound. She never thought she'd have to worry about a Basset with children - but Mosi is a different story.
I recommend reading two books, The Dog's Mind & The Dog Listener. It will give you an idea of what is going on and some tips on how to avoid this in the future. But - you will always have to be careful with Sammy!  That's just the way some dogs are (and one of the reasons that children & OES don't always mix well).
Good LUck!
Kristen
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Here are links to the books that Kristen has recommended: [-Ron]
The Dog's Mind: Understanding Your Dog's Behavior
The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation | I would recommend getting her enrolled in a positive reinforcement training program. This will be good for her socialization skills - but also allow her to gain some confidence (which is probably part of the problem). Involve your family in training her. You should get the book The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell - it has some really good information that I think would help in this case. The other book is "Second Hand Dog" - which is really helpful in understanding dog's with unknown histories/pasts.
Where did you adopt her from?
Best of Luck! | I would say this is relative to an experience she had in her previous home. Take it in baby steps - getting her used to the bath time and reward her when she's cooperating. I think enrolling her in obedience will do alot of good too (positive reinforcement only). In the mean time, when she acts like this - try and get her to SIT - and when she does reward her. Give her something else to chew on (other than you or your son) and always reassure her that she's a good girl (when she's being a good girl). Other than that - I'd avoid giving her so many baths until she becomes more settled and comfortable with you and your family! 
I recommend two great books - especially when dealing with a dog with an unknown past - The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell , and
Second-Hand Dog : How to Turn Yours into a First-Rate Pet, by Carol Lea Benjamin!
Good Luck! By the way - Congrats!
Kristen | When Ben first moved in we were told OES seem to stay in puppyhood longer than some breeds. We had a Lhasa before him and it was quite an easy training experience. Of course if you didn't like a behavior we could literally pick him up and remove him from the situation...not an option with Big Ben.
At 2 - maybe even at 3 years old - we were still amazed how puppy-like Big Ben was. Lots of energy, mischievous, chewing, jumping, etc. etc. There were many times we thought we were going to lose it because he just wasn't calming down despite the exercise, training and attention.
I can honestly say it's been about a year now (he's 5 1/2 yrs old) that he's been calmer and a better listener. It wasn't easy and I'm certainly not saying he's the perfect dog. (Last night he realized a bone we gave him in the morning was actually edible and growled when we told him it was bedtime. Heaven forbid we interrupt bone time.) But, all in all, he's really developed into a very good dog for our family. A few years ago I would never have said I wanted another OES in my lifetime, now I would love a second if time permitted.
Hang in there...it's worth the wait!!  |
john rice wrote:
We do hold his paws for a while when he does try to jump, and you're right, they do not like it. We have also been making a concerted effort to put him on a short lead when someone new comes into the house, and MAKE (in a nice manner) him sit. It seems to be helping. I guess I am just expecting miracles from a pup! I can't wait until he does calm down, because, with NO question about it, they ARE the best dispositioned dogs I've ever had. Ranger will be my fifth. |
I would avoid holding his paws. This can be uncomfortable and may deter them from jumping - but it may also deter him from having his paws touched at all - and that will be a problem - especially with a breed that requires so much grooming.
Have you been to obedience class yet? If so - I recommend that (positive reinforcement only).
Try the "turning your back" and see if that helps. The best bet is to ignore them completely (I know this is extremely hard) don't push them off because any touch is attentioin and that's what they are looking for.
You can try getting them to sit before they are at the point of jumping and reward him. It's a tough thing to break - because you need EVERYONEs who enteres the house to cooperate.
I recommend reading the book The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell - it is helpful in alot of training areas - but specifically the "jumping up" problem.
Good Luck!
Kristen | Stormi,
My sister brought her Basset Hound to Petsmart and made out fine. They don't have the space to allow for alot of socialization - but alot of places don't have a "play time" for dogs over 1 anyway - so that may not make a difference in your case.
You can also work on some behaviors on your own - but with two the same age - it is very difficult to concentrate (and have them concentrate) so I would recommend doing one on one training with each of them.
Even with a formal training program - you may still have problems! Sydney went through 3 obedience classes and she still jumps on people she's excited to see. It takes a lot of work and patience - take your time and don't give up!
You should get the book The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell - it has some great training tips!
Kristen | This might be of some help!
http://www.oes.org/html/how_do_i_pick_the_right_puppy_.html
There are links on the page where you can buy the book, and also some other interesting/questionable puppy training product links. Feel free to look around, but be sure to take them with a chuckle and a grain of salt! HERE (this forum) is a good place to find reliable info and reliable books, such as these links:
The Dog's Mind: Understanding Your Dog's Behavior
The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation
Good luck, and ENJOY your puppy experience! | Josh,
See if your wife can participate more in the training / obedience commands. She needs to assert her alpha role over Pooh. When he jumps - be sure that SHE is the one who's giving him the OFF command and have her tell him to SIT. When he responds, make sure she gives him the reward. She should also reward his good behavior with attention (if he sits - have her pet him and tell him he's a good boy, etc.).
If she participates more with his obedience training - he will be less likely to jump on her. There's some great tips on jumping / greeting in the book, The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell (which you would think I get commission on it - I recommend it so often! )
Good Luck! Pooh's still as cute as ever!
Kristen | Not ALL OES are crazy like this - but some dogs just don't get along with others!
You need to assert your position as ALPHA! I would recommend reading the book,
The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell and/or the book
The Dog's Mind: Understanding Your Dog's Behavior, by Bruce Fogle, Anne B. Wilson. They both have excellent information relative to pack behaviors and aggression, etc.
If you haven't already - I would get Abigail enrolled in obedience class (positive reinforcement only)!
The other issue I would consider is seeing if there's a medical reason behind Abigail's "outbursts". Have her thyroid tested! Make sure she's on a lower protein diet!
Also - see if you can determine what they are fighting over - ??? dog toy, bones, etc. - and remove the stimulus!
It's not an easy situation to live with - I've been through it before too! It's like walking on eggshells wondering when the next fight will occur and hoping that noone gets hurt!
I hope I've helped somewhat! Best of Luck!
Kristen | Sorry guys if I was a bit vague, yes they are both intact, being for the show ring, I've read The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell from cover to cover and still cant find a solution, at the moment they are lying side by side asleep,,peace lovely LOL I know they say the answer is to have one of them snipped but surely in the wild i,e with the alpha this kind of thing wont be the norm, and I know other people who have no probs, they both went to training but were not keen as in too many dogs all crushed into tiny space. they are generally well behaved Digby the baby is very happy to please, Bilbo Baggins the 2 year old is normally so laid back he is almost horizontal LOL, they get fed seperatly but can fight over a treat so am allways carefull when I give treats, I've had OES before and never had this kind of problem,
just dont know how to solve this one 
Huggles
B-eye |
b-eye wrote:
Sorry guys if I was a bit vague, yes they are both intact, being for the show ring, I've read The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell from cover to cover and still cant find a solution, at the moment they are lying side by side asleep,,peace lovely LOL I know they say the answer is to have one of them snipped but surely in the wild i,e with the alpha this kind of thing wont be the norm, and I know other people who have no probs, they both went to training but were not keen as in too many dogs all crushed into tiny space. they are generally well behaved Digby the baby is very happy to please, Bilbo Baggins the 2 year old is normally so laid back he is almost horizontal LOL, they get fed seperatly but can fight over a treat so am allways carefull when I give treats, I've had OES before and never had this kind of problem,
just dont know how to solve this one
Huggles
B-eye |
Time may help matters! It's best to not interfere too much - as long as noone is going to get seriously injured! That, however, is easier said than done - because your instinct is to get them apart and stop things before they escalate. They need to work out their pecking order and if this were "dogs in the wild" noone would be interfering in that. However, dogs in the wild often got hurt in this process - which you don't want to happen so use your best judgement.
Do you spend "seperate" one on one time with them? You may want to try working with them on training issues seperately. It may help that they aren't fighting over your attention.
Good Luck! I know how difficult this situation is - I've been there before (and my dogs were neutered!)
Kristen | Harry is biting a heck of a lot at the moment. He is 10 weeks old today (maybe he's celebrating?!?!) I'm following all of the leader of the pack/alpha rules and they seem to work great most of the time apart from with the biting.
When we say 'no' firmly, he instantly gets hyper and starts trying to play. I've tried ignoring this as I don't want him to think 'misbehave and I get games' but then he starts the leg nipping thing (he just pierced a hole in my favourite jeans today...  !). Have tried putting him in another room and it seems to work for a few mins when he comes out then it starts again. It just feels that all I'm doing at the moment is yelping (way to make a fool of myself with the neighbours...thank you The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell !!), saying no, and putting him in another room. Where's the happy time?!?
I know this is pretty common for a pup - I'm just hoping for some ideas on how to deal with it (and suggestions where I can buy reinforced pup proof jeans!) |
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